Knicks · Bucks can wait to get rid of Greg Monroe (page 1)

Nearly a year ago, the Milwaukee Bucks were the surprise winners of the Greg Monroe free agency sweepstakes.

Now days before the 2016 NBA draft and the start of free agency, reports are surfacing that Monroe's days in Milwaukee appear to be numbered.

The 6-foot-11 big man signed a three-year, $50 million deal last summer but is being shopped "hard" according to Michael Scotto of the Associated Press:

Sources: Bucks are shopping Greg Monroe hard. He's owed $17.1 million next season and has a $17.8 million player option for 2017-18 season.
— Michael Scotto (@MikeAScotto) June 20, 2016

Monroe, 26, averaged 15.3 points and 8.8 rebounds in his first year with the Bucks, but wasn't an ideal fit schematically for Milwaukee – especially on the defensive end of the floor.

Because of that, writes Racine Journal Times columnist Gary Woelfel, the Bucks are "eager to move on" from Monroe, which is impacting his market value:

And because the league is well aware of the Bucks' hopes of moving Monroe, that same official said, Monroe doesn't have "much trade value.'' And that comes at a time when Thursday's draft is devoid of quality centers.

"They not going to get a lottery pick for him, not even a late lottery pick," a general manager said of Monroe.

Added a Western Conference executive: "I can't see anyone giving up a lottery pick to get Greg Monroe. Nobody's going to do that; he's not a prized possession."

The Portland Trail Blazers and New York Knicks were the other finalists for Monroe's services last summer, but Woelfel writes that neither team is interested now.

this guys stats are so watered down, because they always come on a losing team. To think some of us crucified phil for not maxing him out and he's clearly worth less than ROLO

i never wanted him, i was outspoken about not wanting him. he'd be a nice piece on the spurs or something like that where a great coach will find a way to get something out of him, but he's just a really empty-stat kinda guy. yikes, when the bucks are looking to drop you at all costs, you know its bad.

nyk4ever wrote:i never wanted him, i was outspoken about not wanting him. he'd be a nice piece on the spurs or something like that where a great coach will find a way to get something out of him, but he's just a really empty-stat kinda guy. yikes, when the bucks are looking to drop you at all costs, you know its bad.

I still value him as a player. Monroe's not a sexy/flashy player but I think with enough PT and touches, he's a 20/10 big-man in the NBA easily. Not too many bigs are capable of doing that--this guy can. Good point about being valuable in the right setting, NYK. In that regard, Monroe reminds me of Zach Randolph. Remember Zach when we had him? He was doing his thing for us like always but we were a complete mess so his value never truly registered. He's since become a key cog on a perennial playoff team in Memphis.

I'm thinking that you mean "can't," and not "can."

Not sure why they killed his value with leaks about their dissatisfaction with him.

The guy does not defend, for the most part, and is not quick enough to play at the 4, today.

I'm thinking that the Robin Lopez/Monroe debate and their relative value to a team might be over at this point.

One comment...is there a reason that the article/quotes are so old?

WaltLongmire wrote:I'm thinking that you mean "can't," and not "can."

Not sure why they killed his value with leaks about their dissatisfaction with him.

The guy does not defend, for the most part, and is not quick enough to play at the 4, today.

I'm thinking that the Robin Lopez/Monroe debate and their relative value to a team might be over at this point.

One comment...is there a reason that the article/quotes are so old?

Might be a tactic by his agent, David Falk, to get the word out that he's available.

Finestrg wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i never wanted him, i was outspoken about not wanting him. he'd be a nice piece on the spurs or something like that where a great coach will find a way to get something out of him, but he's just a really empty-stat kinda guy. yikes, when the bucks are looking to drop you at all costs, you know its bad.

I still value him as a player. Monroe's not a sexy/flashy player but I think with enough PT and touches, he's a 20/10 big-man in the NBA easily. Not too many bigs are capable of doing that--this guy can. Good point about being valuable in the right setting, NYK. In that regard, Monroe reminds me of Zach Randolph. Remember Zach when we had him? He was doing his thing for us like always but we were a complete mess so his value never truly registered. He's since become a key cog on a perennial playoff team in Memphis.

You could be right...he might just need the right team. Still glad that we did not take him...would have been more difficult for KP, I think.

Finestrg wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i never wanted him, i was outspoken about not wanting him. he'd be a nice piece on the spurs or something like that where a great coach will find a way to get something out of him, but he's just a really empty-stat kinda guy. yikes, when the bucks are looking to drop you at all costs, you know its bad.

I still value him as a player. Monroe's not a sexy/flashy player but I think with enough PT and touches, he's a 20/10 big-man in the NBA easily. Not too many bigs are capable of doing that--this guy can. Good point about being valuable in the right setting, NYK. In that regard, Monroe reminds me of Zach Randolph. Remember Zach when we had him? He was doing his thing for us like always but we were a complete mess so his value never truly registered. He's since become a key cog on a perennial playoff team in Memphis.

The ZBO comparison is fair. Both lefties. Similar games. Memphis actually should put something together for him. He'd fit in nice when ZBO is done there.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nearly a year ago, the Milwaukee Bucks were the surprise winners of the Greg Monroe free agency sweepstakes.

Now days before the 2016 NBA draft and the start of free agency, reports are surfacing that Monroe's days in Milwaukee appear to be numbered.

The 6-foot-11 big man signed a three-year, $50 million deal last summer but is being shopped "hard" according to Michael Scotto of the Associated Press:

Sources: Bucks are shopping Greg Monroe hard. He's owed $17.1 million next season and has a $17.8 million player option for 2017-18 season.
— Michael Scotto (@MikeAScotto) June 20, 2016

Monroe, 26, averaged 15.3 points and 8.8 rebounds in his first year with the Bucks, but wasn't an ideal fit schematically for Milwaukee – especially on the defensive end of the floor.

Because of that, writes Racine Journal Times columnist Gary Woelfel, the Bucks are "eager to move on" from Monroe, which is impacting his market value:

And because the league is well aware of the Bucks' hopes of moving Monroe, that same official said, Monroe doesn't have "much trade value.'' And that comes at a time when Thursday's draft is devoid of quality centers.

"They not going to get a lottery pick for him, not even a late lottery pick," a general manager said of Monroe.

Added a Western Conference executive: "I can't see anyone giving up a lottery pick to get Greg Monroe. Nobody's going to do that; he's not a prized possession."

The Portland Trail Blazers and New York Knicks were the other finalists for Monroe's services last summer, but Woelfel writes that neither team is interested now.

this guys stats are so watered down, because they always come on a losing team. To think some of us crucified phil for not maxing him out and he's clearly worth less than ROLO

It will be interesting to see what the Bucks get, and then we can start the "what the Bucks got is greater than what we got for Rolo" thread...

you want your contracts to be valuable. before he got paid he was valuable. now he eats up cap space. I'd say he is an above average player though. I wouldn't necessarily mind having him but why the hell would we want him when we already got KP/Noah? That would be as dumb as having and using all your cap space on Melo, Amare, and Chandler

Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

fishmike wrote:Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

I think advance stats is another word for "If"

Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Knixkik wrote:Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Not really. If you can defend you have value. That has not changed. If you cant defend your position your place in the league will always be precarious at best. That hasn't changed at all. Guys like Drummond and Jordan cant shoot, hit a FT or do much beside stay around the rim, and they are max players and highly sought after.

If Monroe could defend his value would be great. Problem is he gives up exactly what he brings. Look at his opposing FG% on 82 games. Players he guards score easily, plain and simple. He cant guard anyone in the post, cant help, cant switch and cant stick with anyone. That part of the game hasn't changed at all. If Monroe defended he would be a max guy

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Not really. If you can defend you have value. That has not changed. If you cant defend your position your place in the league will always be precarious at best. That hasn't changed at all. Guys like Drummond and Jordan cant shoot, hit a FT or do much beside stay around the rim, and they are max players and highly sought after.

If Monroe could defend his value would be great. Problem is he gives up exactly what he brings. Look at his opposing FG% on 82 games. Players he guards score easily, plain and simple. He cant guard anyone in the post, cant help, cant switch and cant stick with anyone. That part of the game hasn't changed at all. If Monroe defended he would be a max guy

Yup.

We all debated this when comparing Rolo vs Monroe...it would seem that Kidd might have done better to look at Lopez.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

I think advance stats is another word for "If"

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Not really. If you can defend you have value. That has not changed. If you cant defend your position your place in the league will always be precarious at best. That hasn't changed at all. Guys like Drummond and Jordan cant shoot, hit a FT or do much beside stay around the rim, and they are max players and highly sought after.

If Monroe could defend his value would be great. Problem is he gives up exactly what he brings. Look at his opposing FG% on 82 games. Players he guards score easily, plain and simple. He cant guard anyone in the post, cant help, cant switch and cant stick with anyone. That part of the game hasn't changed at all. If Monroe defended he would be a max guy

The players you named are high-flyers who can play fast and can lead a defense. If you can't stretch the floor, you need to be athletic and defend. Below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders are becoming dinosaurs. Monroe getting the max last season marked the tail end of that era. Al Jefferson, who was an 18-10 player before running into problems last season, is proof. Any below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders left starting in the league at center other than Monroe? Maybe Vucevic in Orlando, if he is still a starter. But he has one of those few ideal 4s next to him now in Ibaka. These guys being able to score 15-20 ppg easily and 10 boards doesn't matter anymore. Byombo's are more valuble. That wasn't the case before this season. Just my perspective.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Not really. If you can defend you have value. That has not changed. If you cant defend your position your place in the league will always be precarious at best. That hasn't changed at all. Guys like Drummond and Jordan cant shoot, hit a FT or do much beside stay around the rim, and they are max players and highly sought after.

If Monroe could defend his value would be great. Problem is he gives up exactly what he brings. Look at his opposing FG% on 82 games. Players he guards score easily, plain and simple. He cant guard anyone in the post, cant help, cant switch and cant stick with anyone. That part of the game hasn't changed at all. If Monroe defended he would be a max guy

The players you named are high-flyers who can play fast and can lead a defense. If you can't stretch the floor, you need to be athletic and defend. Below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders are becoming dinosaurs. Monroe getting the max last season marked the tail end of that era. Al Jefferson, who was an 18-10 player before running into problems last season, is proof. Any below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders left starting in the league at center other than Monroe? Maybe Vucevic in Orlando, if he is still a starter. But he has one of those few ideal 4s next to him now in Ibaka. These guys being able to score 15-20 ppg easily and 10 boards doesn't matter anymore. Byombo's are more valuble. That wasn't the case before this season. Just my perspective.

Bold is only part I disagree with. David Lee was one of those guys... lost his job to a guy who played defense. Nene got phase out... I get the smallball movement, but if you defend you play. You don't, you better make guys better or really impact the game in other ways

fishmike wrote:Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

you would come to that conclusion if you were a novice.

Luckily our coach who has a very deep understanding of advanced stats and advanced player evals, and who is one of the biggest proponents of advanced metrics, is not a novice.

And, Monroe's advanced stats are not great.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Monroe is not a bad player. His downfall is a product of the change in the league, where guys like he, Al Jefferson, etc are no longer valuable starting centers. No question they can put up numbers. But the inability to stretch the floor and play elite defense makes them more suitable for 6th man roles unless you have the perfect stretch-4 who can also defense, which there aren't many of. I have a feeling Okafor may eventually head down that road too. The game has changed.

Not really. If you can defend you have value. That has not changed. If you cant defend your position your place in the league will always be precarious at best. That hasn't changed at all. Guys like Drummond and Jordan cant shoot, hit a FT or do much beside stay around the rim, and they are max players and highly sought after.

If Monroe could defend his value would be great. Problem is he gives up exactly what he brings. Look at his opposing FG% on 82 games. Players he guards score easily, plain and simple. He cant guard anyone in the post, cant help, cant switch and cant stick with anyone. That part of the game hasn't changed at all. If Monroe defended he would be a max guy

The players you named are high-flyers who can play fast and can lead a defense. If you can't stretch the floor, you need to be athletic and defend. Below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders are becoming dinosaurs. Monroe getting the max last season marked the tail end of that era. Al Jefferson, who was an 18-10 player before running into problems last season, is proof. Any below the rim scorers who aren't elite defenders left starting in the league at center other than Monroe? Maybe Vucevic in Orlando, if he is still a starter. But he has one of those few ideal 4s next to him now in Ibaka. These guys being able to score 15-20 ppg easily and 10 boards doesn't matter anymore. Byombo's are more valuble. That wasn't the case before this season. Just my perspective.

Bold is only part I disagree with. David Lee was one of those guys... lost his job to a guy who played defense. Nene got phase out... I get the smallball movement, but if you defend you play. You don't, you better make guys better or really impact the game in other ways

We both agree on the defense part. David Lee was one of the first dominos to fall. A true skill PF without the ability to make threes means he becomes an undersized center who can't defend. Guys like Lee, Boozer, Stoudemire really don't have a place anymore. Injuries of course did it to Stoudemire, but my point is, teams can no longer appreciate his ability to even score in spurts because he has to play center and can't defend centers. Lee still should be good enough to find a role off a bench (i'm guessing the Spurs) but i don't see many traditional scoring big men left. Some guys out there can get 18 and 10 with their eyes closed and aren't going to be starting for anyone. I still think Lee can put up numbers, but that skill is no longer worth 100 mil. It is worth a year to year contract for bench points.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

you would come to that conclusion if you were a novice.

Luckily our coach who has a very deep understanding of advanced stats and advanced player evals, and who is one of the biggest proponents of advanced metrics, is not a novice.

And, Monroe's advanced stats are not great.

Do you think *HE* thinks the Knicks improved at PG from last year?

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Monroe has great advanced stats, so therefore he must be great.

you would come to that conclusion if you were a novice.

Luckily our coach who has a very deep understanding of advanced stats and advanced player evals, and who is one of the biggest proponents of advanced metrics, is not a novice.

And, Monroe's advanced stats are not great.

Do you think *HE* thinks the Knicks improved at PG from last year?

grow up .... you seem like a good guy but this is childish to keep bringing up when you already asked numerous times and I gave my answer.

I am sure the he think a helluva lot more like me than you. He would also understand an answer the first time.