Knicks · BBall breakdown video: How Derrick Rose and Jeff Hornacek will fit with the Knicks (page 2)

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

It was an odd response for a question posed about a guy's mindset and games watched.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

It was an odd response for a question posed about a guy's mindset and games watched.

As odd as referring to Bonn missing Jose.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

He added the caveat *if Rose plays the same as last year*. I'd say that's correct. If Rose is a 16 shot, 16 PPG chucker, I think he will probably cost us more wins than Jose cost us last year. It would be close. If Rose plays the same as he did in the 2nd half of last year, I think he'll help a little but not a lot. It would add a couple wins. If he stays healthy and actually learns good shot selection, he could help more.

Rose and Butler took the same amount of shots but Butler was much more efficient and played fewer minutes. If you look at per 36 min, Rose averaged 18.5 points on 18.0 shots. Butler was at 20.4 points on 15.1 shots.
Even our coach has stopped using simple FG% and is using the advanced measures of efficiency, BTW.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

He added the caveat *if Rose plays the same as last year*. I'd say that's correct. If Rose is a 16 shot, 16 PPG chucker, I think he will probably cost us more wins than Jose cost us last year. It would be close. If Rose plays the same as he did in the 2nd half of last year, I think he'll help a little but not a lot. It would add a couple wins. If he stays healthy and actually learns good shot selection, he could help more.

Rose and Butler took the same amount of shots but Butler was much more efficient and played fewer minutes. If you look at per 36 min, Rose averaged 18.5 points on 18.0 shots. Butler was at 20.4 points on 15.1 shots.
Even our coach has stopped using simple FG% and is using the advanced measures of efficiency, BTW.

actually I quoted EFG%, not FG%.

And that's not a caveat its an out.

What is really weird is that the Bulls got the better PG back in Jose, then gave him away for nothing. Bulls must not use advanced stats. Hinkie is looking for the job though so there is hope in Chi-Town

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

He added the caveat *if Rose plays the same as last year*. I'd say that's correct. If Rose is a 16 shot, 16 PPG chucker, I think he will probably cost us more wins than Jose cost us last year. It would be close. If Rose plays the same as he did in the 2nd half of last year, I think he'll help a little but not a lot. It would add a couple wins. If he stays healthy and actually learns good shot selection, he could help more.

Rose and Butler took the same amount of shots but Butler was much more efficient and played fewer minutes. If you look at per 36 min, Rose averaged 18.5 points on 18.0 shots. Butler was at 20.4 points on 15.1 shots.
Even our coach has stopped using simple FG% and is using the advanced measures of efficiency, BTW.

actually I quoted EFG%, not FG%.

And that's not a caveat its an out.

What is really weird is that the Bulls got the better PG back in Jose, then gave him away for nothing. Bulls must not use advanced stats. Hinkie is looking for the job though so there is hope in Chi-Town

you are choosing to be obtuse or think your funny but we all know that Jose stinks and of course the bulls did not have much interest in him. You are stuck on the assumption that we must be saying he is good by saying that Rose has been awful.

Carry on with that bud its kinda charming ... like little cute kid charming

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

He added the caveat *if Rose plays the same as last year*. I'd say that's correct. If Rose is a 16 shot, 16 PPG chucker, I think he will probably cost us more wins than Jose cost us last year. It would be close. If Rose plays the same as he did in the 2nd half of last year, I think he'll help a little but not a lot. It would add a couple wins. If he stays healthy and actually learns good shot selection, he could help more.

Rose and Butler took the same amount of shots but Butler was much more efficient and played fewer minutes. If you look at per 36 min, Rose averaged 18.5 points on 18.0 shots. Butler was at 20.4 points on 15.1 shots.
Even our coach has stopped using simple FG% and is using the advanced measures of efficiency, BTW.

actually I quoted EFG%, not FG%.

And that's not a caveat its an out.

What is really weird is that the Bulls got the better PG back in Jose, then gave him away for nothing. Bulls must not use advanced stats. Hinkie is looking for the job though so there is hope in Chi-Town

you are choosing to be obtuse or think your funny but we all know that Jose stinks and of course the bulls did not have much interest in him. You are stuck on the assumption that we must be saying he is good by saying that Rose has been awful.

Carry on with that bud its kinda charming ... like little cute kid charming

thanks. Charming is my middle name.

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

YOUR words, not mine.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

So there you go... its not silly at all. In your opinion we have downgraded PG from last year. Pretty straightforward.

He added the caveat *if Rose plays the same as last year*. I'd say that's correct. If Rose is a 16 shot, 16 PPG chucker, I think he will probably cost us more wins than Jose cost us last year. It would be close. If Rose plays the same as he did in the 2nd half of last year, I think he'll help a little but not a lot. It would add a couple wins. If he stays healthy and actually learns good shot selection, he could help more.

Rose and Butler took the same amount of shots but Butler was much more efficient and played fewer minutes. If you look at per 36 min, Rose averaged 18.5 points on 18.0 shots. Butler was at 20.4 points on 15.1 shots.
Even our coach has stopped using simple FG% and is using the advanced measures of efficiency, BTW.

actually I quoted EFG%, not FG%.

And that's not a caveat its an out.

What is really weird is that the Bulls got the better PG back in Jose, then gave him away for nothing. Bulls must not use advanced stats. Hinkie is looking for the job though so there is hope in Chi-Town

OK, efg% is better than fg% but TS% and offensive rating are still much better stats. Butler and Gasol are excellent offensive players because of the damage they do from the line and their passing, not their efficiency with field goals. Either way, the difference between .440s and .480s efg% is huge in a sport where so many games are decided by a few points. I'd want a guy in the .480s to be taking far more shots than a guy in the .440s. For a little context, the Lakers were dead last in efg% last year and they were at .460.
I'm sure the Bulls used advanced stats. They probably don't use them as well as the Spurs, Cavs, Warriors, and other top teams do though.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

45?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

butler and gasol, really? offensively they dont even come close to melo and kp respectively.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

It is pretty much Clyde's pet peeve so I'm sure he will criticize ad nauseum this season unless it changes.

its only bad when its a habit.

The varying opinions on Rose around here are wild. I am really looking forward to seeing him on the floor with this group. We have heard from guys like Thibs, and other players around the league that the Knicks are getting a great player. We have heard also that Rose hurts his team more than Jose and was the worst PG in the NBA from members of the UK faithful. It should be a very interesting season. I am really looking forward to seeing how this group comes together.

Rose once won 62 games as the starting PG for his team. He was also the top WS player on that team at 13.1. The injuries interrupted his career. This is a chance for Rose to try and get back to being an impact player. He's gonna have a lot of talent around him. He's gonna have a lot of motivation to be on his best behavior and to come into camp in the best possible condition and preparation.

It's also going to be important for Rose to listen to Hornacek and FULLY BUY IN. All the players have to do that but Rose as the ball handler really has to be in sync with his coach. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be.

You can't even think of a few? C'mon nix ... see the upside and the downside.

How about that Rose has not been in sync with coaches for a while? How about that Rose thinks he is still the same player that he once was and really has not recognized that he is not, or that he has not recognized that he takes horrible shots, or that he has not recognized that his jump passing is horrible, or that he is not a good mid range shooter even though he just said that he is (bizarre)?

Sometimes players can hear/take constructive criticism from others and some players just can't no matter how irrefutable the evidence is. If people want to ignore evidence and choose to stick to what the stupidly believe, there is not much you can do about that.

Can JH and Phil get to Rose? They can but I don't have a lot of confidence that they will regardless of how many "what if" arguments people make. Right now, he has to prove it on the court. If he proves me wrong, I will be the first one to sing his praises just like I did with Derrick Williams.

I am much more optimistic about Jennings. The dude wants to be here so bad and I don't believe he is suffering with the same ego problem and self denial like Rose.

WOW! Ego and self denial problem? Perhaps Rose has had issues with his ego and self denial, but this is not his hometown or his old situation in Chicago. This is a totally new situation and he knows full well that he can't play around here in NY when his next contract is on the line. I expect Rose to be fully compliant with what Hornacek is asking him to do. You're talking like Rose is some team killing malcontent. That's not how his teammates talk about him. Thibs loved him. Maybe Hoiberg had issues but I couldn't tell you anything about that.

I just think about what Rose said:

I’m 27 years old — there’s still so much ahead for me. I really believe this trade is a blessing. After all of the emotions passed through me, I started to realize how pumped I am for what comes next. I’m going to be playing alongside Carmelo Anthony and Kristaps Porzingis. This is an amazing opportunity. I can’t wait.

I don't see him coming here and not being motivated to make this work.

so he does not get motivated in his home town but NY will light his fire?

How about his last couple of years with Thibs? Do you think that he played the way Thibs wanted him to play?
The
He might just be who he is ... players rarely just all of the sudden have an awakening.

Ap player changes his game as he get older and smarter there's a million players that have,

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

45?

So if the Knicks got worse at PG and C, a very slight improvement at SG how do you have them going from a .390 team to a .548 team?

I've been saying this all along but assessing Rose off of last year is flawed. Unless you expect him to start the year off getting smashed in the face so hard he had to have surgery to repair his eye socket!!! WTF??? It's clear that it had an effect on his game early on and by extension impacts his overall statistics negatively. So if we're just gonna ignore what he actually looked like after he recovered a bit then fine but it's a horrible way to assess what Rose can be for this team.

Even when Rose finally started playing better I don't think it was the best he can possibly play. I think he really has needed an extended offseason where he can work on his body and his game. We obviously have to wait and see how it all works out but i'm optimistic about his prospects for next season.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

45?

So if the Knicks got worse at PG and C, a very slight improvement at SG how do you have them going from a .390 team to a .548 team?

Lance Thomas is healthy that's why!

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Great video.

So is Hornacek going to show Rose how many times a game he passes while jumping up in the air?
Because the NY crowd will surely let him know if he keeps messing that up.

I am sure that he will because Thibs, Hoiberg and the Chicago fans were always too drunk to pick up on this

He was "the man" in Chicago...different role here. Probably more open to suggestion. Also contract year. More assists more efficiency = More $$ for him.

He had a lot of excellent players in Chicago. There was no reason for him to chuck low percentage shots.

What "excellent" offensive players did he play with in Chicago when he was healthy? Who were the offensive equivalents of Melo and KP on those teams?

Are you talking about last year? I'd consider Gasol and Butler on the border between very good and excellent. Many of their role players are good and have spots on the court where they're very effective. There was no need to put up 16 points on 16 shots a game. That's chucking. I'm really hoping Hornacek can change Rose's mindset.

what mindset? Butler/Gasol/Rose were pretty even in shot attempts. Gasol and Butler were about 48% in their EFG% while Rose was 45%. How much Bulls BB did you watch last year to get a handle on Rose's mindset? You do understand someone has to score the ball to win? I can see why you miss Jose.

WS48:

Butler .177
Gasol .149
Rose .009

Hence the problem with FG.

Im sorry, I thought we were actually talking about basketball. Carry on...

I'm just responding as our coach would ... FG who?

mreinman, do you believe that by adding Rose the Knicks should lose 4 more game than they did last year? (Based on win shares)

Please do tell me you believe that since that is the # you just posted. According to you swapping Calderon for Rose should net 28 wins vs. the 32 we had last year. Agree?

yes (or more) if Rose plays like he played last year.

of course its a silly question since we made a ton of other changes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

context is good... like when guys are saying the team isn't going to be good or offer their opinion its important to remember the same guy things Jose Calderon is going to produce more wins for your team than Derrick Rose.

Everyone has their opinion.

45?

So if the Knicks got worse at PG and C, a very slight improvement at SG how do you have them going from a .390 team to a .548 team?

Lance Thomas is healthy that's why!

Can I tell you to grow up but that you are being cute?