Knicks · Phil Jackson Chronicles: 5 games before Fisher is fired, "We finally feel like a team... we can beat 90% of the NBA" (page 1)

Phil on the Charley Rosen thing, 5 games before Fisher was fired... seems inconceivable that Fisher could be fired a mere five games later, especially with Melo and Lance Thomas and Calderon out for a bunch of those five games...

What changed? I still wonder if it was Dolan pressure, the Fisher/Memphis game with Barnes taunting Fish... something. Maybe Fisher lost the team once the injuries hit and the losses started.

But, man, this is a huge leap from Phil saying - I love the team, we can make the playoffs to Fisher gone 5 games later...

http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/nba-east/...

“We finally feel like a team,” he says. “We’ve learned how to format our offense — the spacing, the key passes, reading the defenses. There are inevitable lapses, but for the most part, it’s all become routine. Now we’re focusing on developing individual skills so we’ll be able to freelance within the context of the triangle.”

He understands it’s still an ongoing process. “Of the 14 players suited up for tonight’s game,” he notes, “nine of them are new to the team this season. So the guys are still getting used to playing with each other.”

How long does a process like this take?

‘That depends,” Jackson says, “on who the players are and what kind of system the team is running. The key players for the Warriors, for example, have played three seasons together. So even though we’re really relatively early in our growth we’re definitely making noticeable progress.”

The Knicks’ defense has also evolved. “We’re long inside, so we can form a shield that can keep most opposing guards from the hoop. Although, KP does have a quick trigger when he’s close to a shot he thinks he can block. In any case, we’re certainly capable of stymieing teams that have trouble shooting from the outside.”

Jackson is also happy with how his team is defending three-point shots. “There are three ways of doing this,” he explains. “Throw a hand at the shooter’s release hand, then fly by and chase him from behind. This is a tactic that Pat Riley employed.

“Then there’s Nellie’s strategy of fly by and run out. This puts a lot of pressure on the shooter and also on the other guard, who has to get back on defense.

“What I used in Chicago and LA was to come to a jump stop in front of the shooter and get into his chest. You have to be careful, though, because most three-point shooters float after they release the ball, so you have to give them space to land. This is what we’re implementing here.”

However, after suffering four consecutive losses — albeit three of them without an injured Carmelo Anthony, and one sans both Melo and Kristaps Porzingis — the team’s progress has to be more than “noticeable” tonight.

“With the Warriors up next,” Phil says, “tonight is a must win.”

(NOTE – which they did, in a 102-84 rout.)

Phil believes that the Knicks have a legitimate chance of making the playoffs.

“In fact,” he notes, “if we play the way we’re capable of playing we can beat 90 percent of the teams in the NBA.”

^^^^^Thanks for posting this. I am glad that Fisher is gone but it would have been nice to see where the team was going if Anthony and Lance didn't get hurt. Things seemed to be coming together and the team looked amazing during the first half of that Celtics game.

CrushAlot wrote:^^^^^Thanks for posting this. I am glad that Fisher is gone but it would have been nice to see where the team was going if Anthony and Lance didn't get hurt. Things seemed to be coming together and the team looked amazing during the first half of that Celtics game.

Yeah, the turn around to get Hornacek, Rose, Jennings, CLee, Noah, etc... I'm thrilled with the summer from every angle.

Just still mystified by how things fell apart so quickly last season. I wonder if something happened behind the scenes where players in the lockerroom lost respect for Fisher. I can't remember one player saying a single thing about Fisher after he left.

I never wanted Fish gone, I wanted him BETTER!
Maybe time he'll tell us why he fired him?

Jackson is also happy with how his team is defending three-point shots. “There are three ways of doing this,” he explains.

“Throw a hand at the shooter’s release hand, then fly by and chase him from behind. This is a tactic that Pat Riley employed.

“Then there’s Nellie’s strategy of fly by and run out. This puts a lot of pressure on the shooter and also on the other guard, who has to get back on defense.

“What I used in Chicago and LA was to come to a jump stop in front of the shooter and get into his chest. You have to be careful, though, because most three-point shooters float after they release the ball, so you have to give them space to land. This is what we’re implementing here.”

I'm not sure I follow this.

So . . . the nature of 3-point "defense" is NOT in stopping the shot,
but in making the shooter worry about what happens AFTER the shot (?)

Is that how it works (?)

Weren't there also rumblings Fish was messing with the same women Clanthony & Hardaway were messing with?

Malcolm wrote:

Jackson is also happy with how his team is defending three-point shots. “There are three ways of doing this,” he explains.

“Throw a hand at the shooter’s release hand, then fly by and chase him from behind. This is a tactic that Pat Riley employed.

“Then there’s Nellie’s strategy of fly by and run out. This puts a lot of pressure on the shooter and also on the other guard, who has to get back on defense.

“What I used in Chicago and LA was to come to a jump stop in front of the shooter and get into his chest. You have to be careful, though, because most three-point shooters float after they release the ball, so you have to give them space to land. This is what we’re implementing here.”

I'm not sure I follow this.

So . . . the nature of 3-point "defense" is NOT in stopping the shot,
but in making the shooter worry about what happens AFTER the shot (?)

Is that how it works (?)

With the way teams PnR you will always have to close out on 3pt shooters after denying penetration. It's just the natural flow of offense to try and penetrate to create open 3's. So you are always trying to chase perimeter players off the shots. I wouldn't question Phil on his knowledge of different defensive tactics. If that's what you're doing.

Nalod wrote:I never wanted Fish gone, I wanted him BETTER!
Maybe time he'll tell us why he fired him?

I Think it was beyond basketball reasons, and I think it also had to do with him and Rambis not on the same page. I can tell this simply by looking at how the offense was running (at a snails pace) once rambis took full control. the rotations were the worse I've ever seen in the NBA in 30 yrs.

Rambis never had this team..not even for a game..

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:I never wanted Fish gone, I wanted him BETTER!
Maybe time he'll tell us why he fired him?

I Think it was beyond basketball reasons, and I think it also had to do with him and Rambis not on the same page. I can tell this simply by looking at how the offense was running (at a snails pace) once rambis took full control. the rotations were the worse I've ever seen in the NBA in 30 yrs.

Rambis never had this team..not even for a game..

If Fish had handled his biz like an adult and a professional he likely keeps his job. The losing just gave Phil the excuse he needed to move on. Fish seems like he wasn't mature enough for the job. In the end it's messed up cuz Fish had some good ideas and Phil ended up moving in the direction Fish was trying to go.

Last year's team needed a point guard. That's mainly all it was about between being a good and inconsistent team. The Knicks front court had it's off nights, but in general were outstanding. Afflalo was really solid at first, but waned as season went on. I think we really addressed so many holes this summer. Point guard, off guard, coaching. Depth. This team should be much more consistent, but ofcourse there's also now some unrealistic expectations that weren't there last year.

nyknickzingis wrote:Last year's team needed a point guard. That's mainly all it was about between being a good and inconsistent team. The Knicks front court had it's off nights, but in general were outstanding. Afflalo was really solid at first, but waned as season went on. I think we really addressed so many holes this summer. Point guard, off guard, coaching. Depth. This team should be much more consistent, but ofcourse there's also now some unrealistic expectations that weren't there last year.

IMO it's a good thing to have expectations of success when you have a mostly vet team that should feel a certain degree of responsibility to win. These guys aren't looking to shy away from the expectations. They all seem eager and motivated to try and do big things. Imagine you are Rose, Noah and Melo. Guys that have been top players in the league. How would you feel mentally. I would imagine you'd be pretty confident in your own abilities and the group coming together. I certainly wouldn't feel the least bit intimidated about playing anyone in the league. They should feel that they can compete and win every single night.

the more i think about it the less i think this team is going to work. on the one hand you have a coach who wants to push the ball and have point guards dictate the action, over and above pushing the ball. on the other hand you have more than several frontcourt players who are either already capable (noah and last year's melo) and potentially capable (kp6, hernangomez, and o'quinn) of being the primary playmakers in a triangle-based inside-out offense, which by default requires the guards to be cutters running off baseline screens and what have you.

i am not calling this roster "clumsy" because in this case you don't have the dreadful overlap of stat and melo getting in each other's way, but how is hornacek going to get these potentially clashing abilities/agendas to properly gel, even if everyone remains healthy? does anyone expect the point guards to defer?

dk7th wrote:the more i think about it the less i think this team is going to work. on the one hand you have a coach who wants to push the ball and have point guards dictate the action, over and above pushing the ball. on the other hand you have more than several frontcourt players who are either already capable (noah and last year's melo) and potentially capable (kp6, hernangomez, and o'quinn) of being the primary playmakers in a triangle-based inside-out offense, which by default requires the guards to be cutters running off baseline screens and what have you.

i am not calling this roster "clumsy" because in this case you don't have the dreadful overlap of stat and melo getting in each other's way, but how is hornacek going to get these potentially clashing abilities/agendas to properly gel, even if everyone remains healthy? does anyone expect the point guards to defer?

Hornacek has talked about adjusting the spacing of the Triangle so that they can open up the paint and get more 3pt shots. He's talked about running more Screens and PnR action out of the more spread Triangle spacing. It's not hard to make those adjustments. It's a matter of players taking a couple of steps back behind the line as opposed to inside of the 3pt line. Rather than run MOSTLY Dribble Handoffs they would add more PnR. It's really minor tweaks.

Besides Rose has actually played off the ball before. He may not do it alot but he has done it. Hornacek's offensive schemes are well developed and will fit these players perfectly.

^^^^^

seeing that video compilation doesn't make me feel any better about rose. he's a classic case of a guy who got away with murder on the aau conveyor belt, not just dominating physically by using palming to get where he wants to go, but especially the leaving his feet to pass the ball. those clips were fugly as hell. i have always hated that and have been pointing this out to you guys ever since we signed him.

sadly, that is not going to change and it actually destroys any potential synergy, much in the same way that iso melo destroys potential synergy. also, the narrator, who i like, "hopes" that rose will be able to be less of an iso player (where he allegedly was at his best-- yuck) and play "a little bit more off the ball." well if he doesn't then rose undermines the offense, right?

nixluva wrote:It's really minor tweaks.

Oh, come on (!)

Now you're going WAY overboard.

The Knicks barely ran the Triangle last year.

It's another YEAR at least . . . for them to get competent at it even
if they were to concentrate 100% on doing so.

THEN . . . you could CONCEIVABLY entertain the notion of "tweaks".

THERE'S NOTHING "MINOR" ABOUT IT AT ALL(!)

I take it "we can beat 90% of the NBA" means we can beat any team, provide they can only play 90% of their five for 48 minutes?

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's really minor tweaks.

Oh, come on (!)

Now you're going WAY overboard.

The Knicks barely ran the Triangle last year.

It's another YEAR at least . . . for them to get competent at it even
if they were to concentrate 100% on doing so.

THEN . . . you could CONCEIVABLY entertain the notion of "tweaks".

THERE'S NOTHING "MINOR" ABOUT IT AT ALL(!)

First of all I've already told you this is no longer gonna be a classic Triangle offense, so I wasn't suggesting that they would be up an running a pure Triangle. What I have been saying is Horn is gonna simplify things and use some Triangle with greater spacing but with more PnR mixed in.

This is no different than what Fish would do at times where the Knicks would setup in a modified Triangle but without the Pinch Post. Then this would become a 4 out look.

Don't tell me Hornacek can't tweak the offense and make things easier. He wants more uptempo, PnR and 3's so that by definition is gonna mean less pure Triangle. That means more offense that these players will be comfortable with.

dk7th wrote:^^^^^

seeing that video compilation doesn't make me feel any better about rose. he's a classic case of a guy who got away with murder on the aau conveyor belt, not just dominating physically by using palming to get where he wants to go, but especially the leaving his feet to pass the ball. those clips were fugly as hell. i have always hated that and have been pointing this out to you guys ever since we signed him.

sadly, that is not going to change and it actually destroys any potential synergy, much in the same way that iso melo destroys potential synergy. also, the narrator, who i like, "hopes" that rose will be able to be less of an iso player (where he allegedly was at his best-- yuck) and play "a little bit more off the ball." well if he doesn't then rose undermines the offense, right?

OK let me just say that Rose was a lead player on a team that won 62 games and he won an MVP!!! You're talking like he was just a lucky scrub. The main thing is for Rose to come to camp in great shape and ready to do what the coach wants. He's got his strengths and his flaws. It's Hornacek's job to minimize and correct his flaws and maximize his strengths. The same as any of his players.

You can hate on Rose and Melo all you want but you don't have to reach for reasons the Knicks won't be successful with them.

dk7th wrote:^^^^^

seeing that video compilation doesn't make me feel any better about rose. he's a classic case of a guy who got away with murder on the aau conveyor belt, not just dominating physically by using palming to get where he wants to go, but especially the leaving his feet to pass the ball. those clips were fugly as hell. i have always hated that and have been pointing this out to you guys ever since we signed him.

sadly, that is not going to change and it actually destroys any potential synergy, much in the same way that iso melo destroys potential synergy. also, the narrator, who i like, "hopes" that rose will be able to be less of an iso player (where he allegedly was at his best-- yuck) and play "a little bit more off the ball." well if he doesn't then rose undermines the offense, right?

BBAll Breakdown just did a compilation where Coach Nick talked about how much better he thinks Melo will do playing with guys that penetrate like Jennings and Rose on the Knicks. http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...
Maybe that compilation will make you feel better.