Knicks · Where the heck is Hillary Clinton? (page 210)
earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
I never liked the discussion of polls because I don't understand math and statistics like that. And data is only as good as your assumptions. I don't know about corruption meaning malicious, but certainly corrupted in terms of the alleged science.
holfresh wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:holfresh wrote:DrAlphaeus wrote:Watching CBSN... commentator saying if Trump did what Hillary did last night, people would be up in arms. Yet again, people are asking "Where the heck is Hillary Clinton?"BRIGGS called it.
Her speech is imminent.
What is the point the commentator is trying to make, that Hillary gets away with things Trump wouldn't be able to get away with?..Come on..She didn't even prepare for this eventuality. They didn't think it was possible. You have to be fair. You know Clinton people would be screaming bloody murder calling him a sore loser.
You can't look at this without context..Trump hinted he wouldn't concede and he would fight the outcome if he lost while Hillary said she would concede..
That's fair. But may speak to data they were seeing and that they saw this coming. Kelly Anne Conway said they got hopeful signs over the last two weeks about the different states that were still in play. Big up Conway — first female winning campaign head. Not the glass ceiling breaking we expected, but wow.
DrAlphaeus wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.I never liked the discussion of polls because I don't understand math and statistics like that. And data is only as good as your assumptions. I don't know about corruption meaning malicious, but certainly corrupted in terms of the alleged science.
Both the Brexit and US Elections are/were huge for the world as a whole and also huge to globalization. It is interesting that basically all of the polls reflected an agenda.
This is extremely dangerous as it is a bit like psychological warfare. A lot of people probably don't vote after they hear there is no chance for their candidate or reform.
I mean what does "Hillary has a 98% chance of winning the election" do?
I think we need to look deeper into these "polls". And yes, I am very much meaning "corruption" = "malicious" regarding the polls. Let's say it was beyond statistical probability that
polls should only help the globalist agenda.
And by the way, CTR and the Super Pac that funded it (correct the record), seem to have backed of reddit now. This is open information, admitted to and appears to have been, in part, very illegal (regarding the separation between the candidate and Super Pac.) This type of collusion, is reflected in many of the Wiki leaks that I constantly brought up.
Without singling anyone out, or parties, I really hope we clean house, from the FBI, DOJ all the way down the line.
earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.
Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.
We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election... (edit)
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
Well, the polls were off by about 3 points in the other direction (against Obama) in 2012. Sometimes they're just off by a few points. It doesn't mean there was corruption. If anything, the polling errors probably helped Trump. I'm sure the Democrats would have done things differently if the polling had been 3 points worse for them all along.
Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
Well, the polls were off by about 3 points in the other direction (against Obama) in 2012. Sometimes they're just off by a few points. It doesn't mean there was corruption. If anything, the polling errors probably helped Trump. I'm sure the Democrats would have done things differently if the polling had been 3 points worse for them all along.
My much bigger point is bolded.
earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
It is not a corruption for monetary and political gain.
This is corruption of people who cannot let go the old cozy world crumbling in front of their wide open eyes.
Mainstream old-fashioned media losing its ground along with bankrupt politicians and preachers of any kind.
Truth and common sense are storming back into the picture pushing millions from convenient social holes.
From obstacles they became a problem. We will see a lot of this on every level from state government, to local, down to corporations.
Too many bloodsuckers to tolerate. Time to make them all make the leaving the hard way.
arkrud wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
It is not a corruption for monetary and political gain.
This is corruption of people who cannot let go the old cozy world crumbling in front of their wide open eyes.
Mainstream old-fashioned media losing its ground along with bankrupt politicians and preachers of any kind.
Truth and common sense are storming back into the picture pushing millions from convenient social holes.
From obstacles they became a problem. We will see a lot of this on every level from state government, to local, down to corporations.
Too many bloodsuckers to tolerate. Time to make them all make the leaving the hard way.
We can disagree on causes, but it still can't hurt to make the system transparent and remove any corruption from it (and make it better).
Note the last 3 lines of my post above.
arkrud wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
It is not a corruption for monetary and political gain.
This is corruption of people who cannot let go the old cozy world crumbling in front of their wide open eyes.
Mainstream old-fashioned media losing its ground along with bankrupt politicians and preachers of any kind.
Truth and common sense are storming back into the picture pushing millions from convenient social holes.
From obstacles they became a problem. We will see a lot of this on every level from state government, to local, down to corporations.
Too many bloodsuckers to tolerate. Time to make them all make the leaving the hard way.
Just so you know cuz I don't think most of you understand this, but the local governments outside of the big cities are NOT CHANGING. Congress is relatively UNCHANGED!!! In fact all this hype from Trump about "draining the swamp" is utter BS! All of the same politicians are still in charge in RED America. They didn't get rid of their own chosen representatives. All the people who have been there FOR YEARS are still in Washington!!!
Republicans did everything in their power to obstruct so that they could regain power and now that they have it what will they do? Big Tax Cuts? Get rid of Regulation? Basically nothing that really will bring back the thousands of small towns and dying Rust Belt cities in terms of Manufacturing Jobs. These guys are the ones who believed in Outsourcing and allowing Big Business to pay low wages and ship jobs overseas. These same Republicans are the ones who are backed by Big Business and always have been.
DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm not even sure why I should trust the exit polling...
Sure, but you are talking about a conscious decision. Look at advertising, you don't really have to believe in it for it to work or at least affect you.
What I am talking about basically is a natural step forward - Building a trustworthy system, not dependent on fewer control points.
Think of how torrent, Bitcoin, etc. work; decentralizing and making a transparent network is much more difficult to censor and influence.
Meaning that analogously for at this stage the technologies are far apart, but we can and will learn from one and use aspects of it elsewhere.
DrAlphaeus wrote:Folks were giddy over the idea that the GOP was coming apart and it's now the Democratic Party that has some serious issues going forward. They lost both houses and the presidency, and the Supreme Court is next. It's a day of reckoning for the Democrats. That old guard holding power in it has no more legitimacy.
If only we didn't have to lose a SC nominee to prove it. The old guard destroyed the party by moving to the right. Problem is the old guard won't relinquish power even after getting their ass handed to them, like this. Off with their haads!
nixluva wrote:arkrud wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
It is not a corruption for monetary and political gain.
This is corruption of people who cannot let go the old cozy world crumbling in front of their wide open eyes.
Mainstream old-fashioned media losing its ground along with bankrupt politicians and preachers of any kind.
Truth and common sense are storming back into the picture pushing millions from convenient social holes.
From obstacles they became a problem. We will see a lot of this on every level from state government, to local, down to corporations.
Too many bloodsuckers to tolerate. Time to make them all make the leaving the hard way.
Just so you know cuz I don't think most of you understand this, but the local governments outside of the big cities are NOT CHANGING. Congress is relatively UNCHANGED!!! In fact all this hype from Trump about "draining the swamp" is utter BS! All of the same politicians are still in charge in RED America. They didn't get rid of their own chosen representatives. All the people who have been there FOR YEARS are still in Washington!!!Republicans did everything in their power to obstruct so that they could regain power and now that they have it what will they do? Big Tax Cuts? Get rid of Regulation? Basically nothing that really will bring back the thousands of small towns and dying Rust Belt cities in terms of Manufacturing Jobs. These guys are the ones who believed in Outsourcing and allowing Big Business to pay low wages and ship jobs overseas. These same Republicans are the ones who are backed by Big Business and always have been.
We can call this a process. Trump can get things going. People need inspiration. Maybe Obama tried going in that direction but the changes didn't happen. Things got worse - economically, socially, etc.
We can't depend on one person to make things better for us, but together, we can do our part and move forward. Might be a long process but I'm game.
For example, IF Hillary is prosecuted and IF Comey or Podesta are also, we can see a trickle down prosecution like effect. That would at least be a start, give people hope, get people motivated to make things better. Put corruption in prion. Work on our relations with Russia (e.g. trade agreement) and work together more. Where we have been headed lately, it seems to make companies more money, save rich people more money, remove the middle class, conquer the world, remove all kinds of borders (while waging wars next door), etc. That was a dead end street.
earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election... (edit)
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...
earthmansurfer wrote:Yea? Think those things bolded were better under Bush? Wow. Good post.nixluva wrote:arkrud wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
It is not a corruption for monetary and political gain.
This is corruption of people who cannot let go the old cozy world crumbling in front of their wide open eyes.
Mainstream old-fashioned media losing its ground along with bankrupt politicians and preachers of any kind.
Truth and common sense are storming back into the picture pushing millions from convenient social holes.
From obstacles they became a problem. We will see a lot of this on every level from state government, to local, down to corporations.
Too many bloodsuckers to tolerate. Time to make them all make the leaving the hard way.
Just so you know cuz I don't think most of you understand this, but the local governments outside of the big cities are NOT CHANGING. Congress is relatively UNCHANGED!!! In fact all this hype from Trump about "draining the swamp" is utter BS! All of the same politicians are still in charge in RED America. They didn't get rid of their own chosen representatives. All the people who have been there FOR YEARS are still in Washington!!!Republicans did everything in their power to obstruct so that they could regain power and now that they have it what will they do? Big Tax Cuts? Get rid of Regulation? Basically nothing that really will bring back the thousands of small towns and dying Rust Belt cities in terms of Manufacturing Jobs. These guys are the ones who believed in Outsourcing and allowing Big Business to pay low wages and ship jobs overseas. These same Republicans are the ones who are backed by Big Business and always have been.
We can call this a process. Trump can get things going. People need inspiration. Maybe Obama tried going in that direction but the changes didn't happen. Things got worse - economically, socially, etc.
We can't depend on one person to make things better for us, but together, we can do our part and move forward. Might be a long process but I'm game.
For example, IF Hillary is prosecuted and IF Comey or Podesta are also, we can see a trickle down prosecution like effect. That would at least be a start, give people hope, get people motivated to make things better. Put corruption in prion. Work on our relations with Russia (e.g. trade agreement) and work together more. Where we have been headed lately, it seems to make companies more money, save rich people more money, remove the middle class, conquer the world, remove all kinds of borders (while waging wars next door), etc. That was a dead end street.
earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation.
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
Well, the polls were off by about 3 points in the other direction (against Obama) in 2012. Sometimes they're just off by a few points. It doesn't mean there was corruption. If anything, the polling errors probably helped Trump. I'm sure the Democrats would have done things differently if the polling had been 3 points worse for them all along.My much bigger point is bolded.
It's also about media focus. If the focus is more about polls and the horse race and not the policy distinctions and really hashing out the issues... the polling industry has been discredited, particularly the Democratic Party's grasp on it. Algorithms are the new arbiters, hashtags the new broadsides.
holfresh wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:So, what of these "polls". It was brought up how Brexit was wrong and that our polls were oversampled. Is it another coincidence or is there something to it?
I mean, all of the MSM polls, wrong??? This is probably what Trump meant about corruption.
No one really knows. The polling average had Hillary up by 3.3 and it looks like it's going to be closer to 0.1. Nate Silver at 538 did say there was a pretty high chance (greater than 10%) that Hillary would win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote.We seem to be near the historically high end regarding result/poll deviation. http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/Election... (edit)
As a service, for the sake of future elections, this needs to be looked into and see exactly how these (specific) results were achieved. A part of going forward and healing, is seeing where things are broken and fixing them, making things better all round - more transparent, etc. We need to get back trust in our system. We need more transparency.
We need to be careful, because if polls can easily be influenced, the affect on the outcome of a vote could, in part, steered. Another tool in the chest of corruption.
So you are concerned about polls and not about a Republican majority in the Supreme Court allowing laws to change so the Republicans in their districts can systemically close 860 polling stations in minority districts across the South in battleground states, to restrict minorities access to voting..You aren't concerned that the Supreme Court has ushered in Citizen's United to allow the rich both foreign and domestic to influence our election more so than the average citizen..You had zero problem watching Russia weight in on our election process by hacking the DNC databases are releasing vital campaign strategies..And lastly, You had no problem with the FBI releasing critical leaks on the eve of the election to help the republican candidate..But it's the POLLS that keeps you up at night, where we need more transparency...Right...
Great questions Holfresh. Scary years ahead for all of us.
As to the "rigged" election, Trump was right about it being rigged, just not how it's so...Citizens United and the revolving door between Congress and K Street "rigged" our democracy long ago. When a shrewd marketer can "win" the electoral vote using slander, innuendo, overt racism, mysogyny, xenophobia, etc...we have moved into the danger zone. Media failed to inform (not counting NYT obviously). Pollsters failed to measure accurately. Voters failed to turn out.