Off Topic · To those Knicks fans dismissing Rose's rape case... (page 11)

There are 2 sides to this thing. Most of the posts seem to have covered Doe's side of things and ignored Rose's side.

Rose’s Key Documents:

Text messages from Doe to Rose about bringing another girl over and going to the “girls on girls store.”

Text messages from Doe to Rose requesting that he come back to her apartment early in the morning on August 27, 2013:

Text message from Doe to Rose the next morning asking for money:

There's more stuff but these are from the day and night of and the next morning. It's a different picture from how Doe's lawyers have presented things.

Text messages from Doe to Rose suggesting that Doe “was sexually adventurous with him”:

The texts basically establish that Rose could still smash at the time if he chose. Doe never gave an indication that she was ok with the boys getting in as well. Consent and trespass is the key, and perhaps the entirty of the texts could establish such things and quite a bit has been omitted.

HofstraBBall wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:There seems to be a hideous double standard here. Athletes are expected to be "morally reprehensible people", that's what I can gather reading these last few pages, and any woman attempting to have a relationship with said athlete know going in that's what is to be expected. Just spread your legs and be a loose whore, you asked for it!

This is not accurate. Go back and read and then respond to the exact posts that you think illustrate your point. Otherwise it's just your incorrect assumption or worse.

redacted wrote:
Jane Doe should've known better. She clearly knew Rose was that kind of guy cuz he had shown it the entire relationship. This could be a problem for her with the jury.

redacted wrote:

It's definitely obvious she seeks money primarily.

redacted wrote:
Or..."I really want to be with this guy who seems to be luke warm towards me and drifting away. So yeah, I'll agree to give in to his fantasy (after I got drunk) because I think that's the only way to keep him (and his money) in my life." Then she sobers up, thinks about what she did, has regrets and shame, wants him to pay for the mistake she agree to while under the influence (though still conscious).

redacted wrote:

Rose has to pay to play,and he will pay up, but I know in my heart she's not a saint in this, and he must feel so too, or he would have been gave her hush money. Or maybe she didn't want to go that route and then be charge with extortion, IDK, but there is always 2 sides to the story.

Yeah I don't know what this is or where it is being quote from. Do better.

?

This is all quoted from posters in previous pages???

I know this an ultimateknicks "pure love" fan site. But it's time to separate Derrick Rose as a member of our beloved favorite basketball team, and the Derrick Rose the defendant that's on a civil trial for gang rape.

You can separate the two. It's unfortunate some are using the Knick's fan "shield" from objectively calling a person that done a terrible thing a piece of shyt.

Rose might be a piece of shit but rapist not so much....

As far as fan shield? I'm quite sick of you and this topic. You can think whatever you want about Rose but don't try to insinuate we are ok with rape just because we are a fan of the team. That's enough.

Might be time to lock this thread before this gets out of hand. We can revisit this after his court appearances next month.

How do you know he is not a rapist? If he/they raped her then he actually is a rapist.

Just because you are a fan of the team, it does not have to mean that you dismiss the possibility that this was rape (even though he is one of your/our boys now).

This is an extremely important topic on so many levels and guess where it landed? Right here and its not going anywhere for the time being so you may have to just deal with it instead making believe that it does not exist.

You keep accusing Forum Members of excusing the possibility of Rape based purely on Homerism. This is highly offensive and you have no right to accuse anyone of such a thing. Martin this needs to stop!

He said that he is not a rapist? How does he know that? Looks like you guys are having a hard time swallowing this but as I said, its here and its important for people to know about it and for there to be a much needed awareness.

You had the nerve to say that she knew what she was getting into as if somehow that makes it her fault which is beyond alarming. You should retract that and never say such a thing again.

You and Eny seemed to have rushed to his defense without a clue ... that is either homerism cause he is our boy or plain ignorant.

First off you are trying to put words in people's mouths and assume what people are thinking. I've NEVER said it was her fault if she was indeed raped. There has been no determination that she was raped so far. No criminal investigation is ongoing at this time. All that we know is that there is a civil suit going on.

The point is that she was in fact in a long term sexual relationship with Rose that wasn't a monogamous relationship based on both of their descriptions. They weren't sharing an apartment and doing daily mundane activities together. This entire thing has 2 sides to it and it's not so cut and dry.

Everyone should read the full Complaint and then read all of the Texts from ALL the parties involved.

https://www.dailyherald.com/assets/pdf/D...

Eny was pretty much concluding that he is not a rapist when he has no clue (and nor do we). Did I put words in his mouth?

This was one of your quotes:

She DID know he was like that and yet she still dealt with him. Not in a normal everyday relationship but a purely sexual relationship! They weren't doing laundry together and hittin up flew markets on the weekends!!! They weren't taking each other to meet the family and planning for a future together! She knew exactly what he wanted and she was fine with it. There was nothing normal about it.

Feel free to explain that away ...

I don't freakin care what kind of relationship that she and rose had! If she did not want to do his freinds then she has a right not to. She told him no again and again and again and all of the sudden she is drunk and not answering the door and boom! She gets nailed for something that she repeadedly resisted under heavy pressure. Now what actually transpired that night? Gonna be hard to ever truly know but Rose is gonna have a nightmare getting a Jury to let him off.

He also tried repeatedly to get her to do sex videos for him but she was also not comfortable with it. These girls are starstruck and its easily for athletes to take advantage of them. Look all those gold diggers that came after cosby (PUKE!!!!!!!!!!!).

At least this girl put up a fight and certainly tried to not give in to this sicko.

https://thinkprogress.org/derrick-rose-r...

Trying to understand. So you want everyone to give this women the benefit of the doubt and not call her irresponsible, loose, illicit, or an extortionist? Because, as you say, no one knows what really happened. But your quick to call someone a Rapist from just a couple of excerpts released by the plaintiffs attorney? The same attorney, who's client is trying to collect 21 Million dollars and is pushing for a settlement? Which btw, usually happens when an attorney employs the strategy of releasing shocking personal accusations of the defendant. And why do you keep accussing all those may suggest he is innocent until proven guilty, as Homer's? Why are you so quick to call him a rapist? Because he is young? Pro Athlete? Involved in lifestyle you don't agree with? Or is it something else? And stop hiding behind the "No one deserves to be raped" cop out statement. I dont think anyone here is saying anything close to that.

I am not asking you to give her the benefit of the doubt, you don't have to do anything. Just don't assume that she is lying cause Rose is ours.

Where did I call him a rapist? Pig, scumbag, disgusting, yes ... he is that. Rapist? Don't know that yet but he has a lot of splainin to do or he will be doing a lot of payin. My feeling is that if this goes to court with the data that is currently out there today, he ends up paying out.

She repeatedly turned him down for group sex as well as numerous other kinky sh1t yet on the night in question, he can't reach her to get into her house with repeated texts, she is completely drunk (according to everyone), the guys somehow eventually get in and have a foursome with this drunk plaintiff who Rose admits would not do the acts that were done were her that night despite continuous prodding.

So now the big question will be was there (drunken) consent ...

Regardless if she is skank or not, (every victim is painted as a skank (see Bill Cosby's 80 plaintiffs)), how the hell does Rose win this case in court? He won't (IMHO) because he comes across extremely sleazy at best and the jury will hate him. I think that he has no choice but to settle.

nixluva wrote:There are 2 sides to this thing. Most of the posts seem to have covered Doe's side of things and ignored Rose's side.

Rose’s Key Documents:

Text messages from Doe to Rose about bringing another girl over and going to the “girls on girls store.”

Text messages from Doe to Rose requesting that he come back to her apartment early in the morning on August 27, 2013:

Text message from Doe to Rose the next morning asking for money:

There's more stuff but these are from the day and night of and the next morning. It's a different picture from how Doe's lawyers have presented things.

Text messages from Doe to Rose suggesting that Doe “was sexually adventurous with him”:

does she indicate that she is aware that 3 guys are coming over to put her to work, not just Rose?

The Real Issue: Consent

Ultimately, this is a rape case, and therefore it all comes down to whether or not Doe consented to group sex, whether or not she was even sober enough to consent to group sex, and if she wasn’t sober enough, whether or not Rose and the other defendants were aware of that.
As to Doe’s level of inebriation on the morning in question, Rose’s own expert toxicologist estimated she had a BAC level of 0.20, which is 2.5 times the legal driving limit.
“I said we men. You can assume. Like we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1:00, there’s nothing to talk about.”
Jessica Groff, Doe’s friend who was at Rose’s party with her, said in her deposition that it was “very obvious” Doe was intoxicated. In fact, Doe even burned her hand after she picked up rocks in the fire pit for “no rational reason.”
After Groff allegedly had a fight with Allen that night, she decided to leave the party. However, she refused to leave Doe alone at the house.
“I knew [Doe] was very intoxicated,” Groff said in her deposition. “I definitely was not going to leave her there alone. I did not feel safe and did not believe [Doe] would be safe if left alone.”
So Groff and Doe got a cab, and Groff dropped Doe off at her apartment.
Later that night, Rose inquired about whether Doe got home safely, and the two began conversing again through text message. Rose wanted to send someone to pick up Doe and return her to his house, but she wanted Rose to come to her apartment, alone.

Texts between Derrick Rose and Jane Doe on the night of the alleged rape.
Eventually, Rose arrived at Doe’s apartment with Allen and Hampton. She stopped responding to texts well before they arrived, as was revealed in the Plaintiff’s Opposition to Defendant Rose’s Motion to Preclude Use of Pseudonym at Trial, filed on August 29:

The evidence shows that Plaintiff was unconscious when Defendants arrived to her apartment in the early morning hours of August 27, 2013, and that she did not respond to texts or calls from Defendants Rose and Allen:

2:05 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:12 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:27 AM Text from Defendant Rose to Plaintiff “Hello?”
2:29 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:49 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:50 AM Text from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff “We outside”
2:50 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:51 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:52 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered
2:52 AM Text from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff “Wake yo ass up”
2:53 AM Call from Defendant Allen to Plaintiff Unanswered

In a deposition on June 17, Rose says that he didn’t talk with Allen and Hampton about the reason they were going to Doe’s apartment, but that the reason was understood because “we men.”
Q: Did either Mr. Hampton or Mr. Allen tell you why they wanted to go to Plaintiff’s home on the night in question?
Rose: No. No.
Q: So they just said, ‘Hey, it’s the middle of the night. Let’s go over to Plaintiff’s house’ and they never gave you a reason why they wanted to go over there?’
Rose: No, but we men. You can assume.
Q: I’m sorry?
Rose: I said we men. You can assume. Like we leaving to go over to someone’s house at 1:00, there’s nothing to talk about.
However, while the defense is using Doe’s texts inviting Rose over to her apartment that night as proof that she consented, Rose admitted in his deposition that nowhere in the text message did she consent or even mention group sex.
Q: All right. Is there — within what you just reviewed in those text messages, is there anything within them that would lead you to believe that plaintif wanted to have sex with you and the other two defendants on August 26th, 2013?
…
Rose: No.

Rose is so candid about all this that he may just have gone over there and did what he did with a passed out girl and somehow thought it was ok because he does or did not even know what "consent" was.

judge ruled that her name will be public for the trial

Wonder if that means her lawyers increase the damages.

Motions ruled on from the Pre trial hearing.
http://thewhitebronco.com/2016/09/derric...

Rose conversation is quite different on another Knicks forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

CrushAlot wrote:Rose conversation is quite different on another Knicks forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

not sure what you are trying to point out with this link?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Rose conversation is quite different on another Knicks forum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/commen...

not sure what you are trying to point out with this link?

In reading the posts in the link, it would appear you have a lot more anti-Jane Doe sentiments, backed up with about as much heresay and angst as the anti-Rose sentiments you have in this thread. Just sayin.