Knicks · The 2012-13 Knicks Compared To The 2016-17 Knicks Roster. (page 1)

nixluva @ 9/16/2016 7:34 PM
Just thinking about the 54 win Team and this current roster since some have often compared the 2 in a negative sense, I think the positive aspects can be very interesting. One thing that came to mind with all the talk about Rose is that we had Felton and Kidd for much of the season. Comparing Rose and Lee with Felton and Kidd could be interesting.


Player	        Age  G  GS  MP   FG  FGA  FG%  3P  3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  eFG%  FT  FTA  FT%  ORB  DRB  TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
Raymond Felton	28   68 68  34.0 5.5 13.0 .427 1.4 3.8	.360 4.2 9.2  .455 .480  1.5 1.9  .789 0.8  2.1  2.9  5.5  1.4  0.2  2.3  1.9 13.9
Derrick Rose    27   66 66  31.8 6.8 15.9 .427 0.7 2.3  .293 6.1 13.6 .449 .448  2.2 2.7  .793 0.7  2.7  3.4  4.7  0.7  0.2  2.7  1.3 16.4
Jason Kidd      39   76 48  26.9 2.0  5.4 .372 1.5 4.3  .351 0.5 1.1  .452 .511  0.5 0.6  .833 0.7  3.6  4.3  3.3  1.6  0.3  1.0  1.6  6.0
Courtney Lee	30   79 65  29.5 3.7  8.1 .454 1.0 2.7	.378 2.6 5.3  .493 .518  1.3 1.5  .839 0.4  2.2  2.6  1.7  1.1  0.4  0.9  1.7  9.6

That 54 win team was Older than this roster but in a similar way that starting lineup had good veteran experience and came together quickly. I hope that we can see a repeat of that with this team. Getting off to that great start helped that 54 win team to stay up even after they cooled off. Hopefully this team doesn't have the same injury issues and fatigue issues that the 54 win team had. I also hope this roster gets stronger in terms of the young players on the team as the season goes along.

Record: 54-28, Finished 1st in NBA Atlantic Division
Coach: Mike Woodson (54-28)
PTS/G: 100.0 (11th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 95.7 (7th of 30)
SRS: 3.73 (7th of 30) Pace: 89.8 (26th of 30)
Off Rtg: 111.1 (3rd of 30) Def Rtg: 106.3 (18th of 30)
Expected W-L: 53-29 (8th of 30)
Arena: Madison Square Garden (IV) Attendance: 780,353 (7th of 30)
NBA 2013 Playoffs: 
Lost NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (2-4) versus Indiana Pacers  (Series Stats)
Won NBA Eastern Conference First Round (4-2) versus Boston Celtics  (Series Stats)

Advanced Stats


Rk  Player	      Age G  MP   PER  TS%  3PAr FTr  ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS  WS  WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1  Tyson Chandler     30  66 2164 18.9 .671 .000 .645 14.1 24.3 19.0 4.5  1.0  3.0  14.5 13.0 6.7 2.6  9.3 .207  1.7  1.8  3.5	3.0
2  Amar'e Stoudemire  30  29 682  22.1 .637 .000 .487 10.0 15.1 12.4 3.6  0.8  2.7  13.4 25.7 2.1 0.6  2.7 .191	 0.6 -2.0 -1.4	0.1
3  Carmelo Anthony    28  67 2482 24.8 .560 .278 .344  6.1 15.9 10.8 14.1 1.1  1.1   9.3 35.6 7.5 2.0  9.5 .184	 4.7 -2.3  2.4  2.8
4  Kurt Thomas	      40  39 392  13.3 .547 .012 .157  6.9 20.1 13.3 8.3  1.4  3.5   8.3 11.5 0.6 0.5  1.1 .135	-1.7  2.2  0.4  0.2
5  Jason Kidd	      39  76 2043 13.5 .532 .795 .117  2.8 16.2 9.3  17.8 3.3  1.1  15.0 11.6 2.6 2.8  5.4 .128	 1.7  2.7  4.4  3.3
6  Kenyon Martin      35  18 431  13.9 .583 .000 .430  8.9 17.1 12.9 2.9  2.0  3.4  12.6 13.7 0.6 0.6  1.2 .128	-1.2  1.8  0.5  0.3
7  Pablo Prigioni     35  78 1263 13.0 .595 .609 .114  3.7 9.8  6.6  27.5 2.9  0.1  27.1 11.7 2.0 1.3  3.2 .123	 0.7 -0.1  0.6  0.8
8  J.R. Smith	      27  80 2678 17.6 .522 .349 .249  2.7 16.3 9.3  14.5 2.0  0.8   8.8 26.5 4.0 2.7  6.7 .120	 1.8 -0.5  1.3  2.2
9  Chris Copeland     28  56 862  16.8 .583 .368 .218  4.5 11.9 8.1  5.7  1.0  1.2  10.7 25.3 1.5 0.6  2.1 .117	 1.0 -3.2 -2.2 -0.1
10 Steve Novak	      29  81 1641 11.3 .602 .816 .077  1.2 10.0 5.4  3.3  0.9  0.4   2.6 13.0 3.2 0.8  4.0 .116	 2.0 -2.0  0.0	0.8
11 Rasheed Wallace    38  21 296  16.7 .484 .486 .141  4.2 29.4 16.4 3.5  2.3  4.4   6.2 25.4 0.1 0.6  0.6 .101	-2.3 -0.8 -3.2 -0.1
12 Iman Shumpert      22  45 996  11.7 .516 .462 .171  3.5 12.8 8.0  11.6 2.3  0.6  11.1 15.6 1.0 1.0  1.9 .094	 0.2  0.4  0.6  0.7
13 Raymond Felton     28  68 2313 15.2 .505 .293 .145  2.5 7.5 4.9   27.0 2.2  0.5  14.2 22.1 2.5 1.7  4.2 .087	 1.1 -0.9  0.3  1.3

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...


This bench has fewer players with NBA experience compared to the 54 win team. That's perhaps the biggest question regarding the way this current team will perform. I do think that the style of play will be very interesting as this team will also look to spread the floor and get more 3's but not in the same way that the 54 win team did. I suspect this team will also get PnR and PG penetration but should be better at it. Having Rose and Jennings is a better PG tandem in terms of pace and penetration.

ESOMKnicks @ 9/17/2016 3:12 AM
The last time we had a team, it was when the likes of Larry Johnson, Charles Oakley or Patrick Ewing were on the roster. Since then we only had assemblies of talent or lack of it.
StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 9:33 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:The last time we had a team, it was when the likes of Larry Johnson, Charles Oakley or Patrick Ewing were on the roster. Since then we only had assemblies of talent or lack of it.
This
Kemet @ 9/17/2016 10:10 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:The last time we had a team, it was when the likes of Larry Johnson, Charles Oakley or Patrick Ewing were on the roster. Since then we only had assemblies of talent or lack of it.


You must mean when we had head coach Pat Riley .. and the outstanding frontline of "Patrick Ewing and Anthony Mason"

The 2012-13 Knicks roster had experience veteran "Old-Heads" that knew every trick on how to win a game in the 4th quarter in any type of situation on any team. The Old-Head roster gave us the best bench coaching-staff in the league that season. Getting rid of Kurt Thomas weeks before the playoffs were STUPID .. Recall Derek Rose MVP season with the Bulls 2010-11 season, well Kurt Thomas were the Bulls veteran experience backup C/F in the 2010-11 season.

A healthy season of Derek Rose/Jennings has the capability to give the Knicks a 50 win season only if the Knicks (Phil) could get center Noah some veteran experience C/F bigman help in the paint.

nixluva @ 9/17/2016 12:38 PM
One thing that can help a team early in the season to win games is having a high level of offensive talent. Often team defenses lag behind Offense early in the year and it's possible that the 2016 Knicks could be able to jump on teams with aggressive offense similar to that 54 win team. The Knicks have 4 lethal scoring threats in their starting lineup which is more than most teams have.

Rose, Lee, Melo and KP are not going to be easy to cover for ANY team. It actually gets tougher for teams when Noah sits since you can bring in a more capable offensive player and possibly make the Knicks more lethal offensively. You can slide KP to the 5 and Melo to the 4 and really look to spread the floor.

CrushAlot @ 9/17/2016 12:40 PM
nixluva @ 9/17/2016 12:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:

MAN! I wish I could be in the gym to watch this team work out together and scrimmage. It's getting closer!!!

StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 12:52 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

MAN! I wish I could be in the gym to watch this team work out together and scrimmage. It's getting closer!!!

thats all they need is a stalker
CrushAlot @ 9/17/2016 1:25 PM
StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 1:27 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract
EnySpree @ 9/17/2016 1:39 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

MAN! I wish I could be in the gym to watch this team work out together and scrimmage. It's getting closer!!!

thats all they need is a stalker

That's exactly what they need actually. Get back to being a fan. Corny back hand insults need to go. You can't even stop yourself. Our guys need us to be psychos and give them all the energy we have if we expect that from them. We have a good group. We need to bring it like we used to

EnySpree @ 9/17/2016 1:41 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

GustavBahler @ 9/17/2016 1:49 PM
Most of the success of the 54 win season happened before the all star break. Kidd was brought in to mentor Lin, not play heavy minutes, while still finishing games. Lin left, and Woodson rode Kidd into the ground by the all star break. Not to mention, most of the FAs we brought in while first rate talent, didn't last more than a handful of games, like Kmart, Thomas, and Camby.

Fortunately we have Jennings as a backup. I have no idea what kind of numbers he will put up, but if Rose starts sitting out games, at least we have a plan B. We also have more youth than the 54 win team, who are also veteran players.

As long as Hornacek doesn't run the starters into the ground, this squad should be at the very least a sleeper come playoff time, if most of the roster is healthy.

StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 2:00 PM
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time
nixluva @ 9/17/2016 2:20 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Most of the success of the 54 win season happened before the all star break. Kidd was brought in to mentor Lin, not play heavy minutes, while still finishing games. Lin left, and Woodson rode Kidd into the ground by the all star break. Not to mention, most of the FAs we brought in while first rate talent, didn't last more than a handful of games, like Kmart, Thomas, and Camby.

Fortunately we have Jennings as a backup. I have no idea what kind of numbers he will put up, but if Rose starts sitting out games, at least we have a plan B. We also have more youth than the 54 win team, who are also veteran players.

As long as Hornacek doesn't run the starters into the ground, this squad should be at the very least a sleeper come playoff time, if most of the roster is healthy.

I think Hornacek was a big proponent of signing Chasson Randle. I'm very interested to see this kid play. I think he can help to pick up the slack when we sit Rose. Randle made an immediate impact on the summer league team and I suspect he will be a good reserve. There should be no reason to have to wear down any of the vets on this roster. There's more than enough talent to give guys rest IMO.

EnySpree @ 9/17/2016 4:29 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

Only when they are negative all the time

dk7th @ 9/17/2016 4:35 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

much of his value is connected with jackson's efforts to bring about "culture change." in this regard the length of the contract is just fine by me.

StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 4:41 PM
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

Only when they are negative all the time

Nah you do it a lot.
StarksEwing1 @ 9/17/2016 4:42 PM
dk7th wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

much of his value is connected with jackson's efforts to bring about "culture change." in this regard the length of the contract is just fine by me.

im ok with it. Id rather have noah than not at all. I just hope his body will stay relatively healthy the last 2 years of the deal
dk7th @ 9/17/2016 6:59 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

much of his value is connected with jackson's efforts to bring about "culture change." in this regard the length of the contract is just fine by me.

im ok with it. Id rather have noah than not at all. I just hope his body will stay relatively healthy the last 2 years of the deal

of course, but the influence he will have on kp6 will be phenomenal: as a passing big man, defensive floor general, team leader, mentor. beyond that his locker room presence can only positive for everyone. he's going to check any potential a-holes-- that is guaranteed, and priceless.

if kp6 can remain healthy we may have a generational player in new york. and noah can play a huge role.

nixluva @ 9/17/2016 7:00 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
i wanted noah from day 1. My only gripe is the length of the contract

Again why gripe? Stop fighting for the right to make back handed comments and nitpicking. We got a team now. Noah is what we need. I want him here forever. He's going to hold his end of the bargain. We have to hold ours. Go Knicks

Dude you need to stop it. Positivity is great and i consider myself a positive fan but im not gonna just shut my mouth if i dont like something. First of all if you read my posts you would notice i was one of the biggest supporters of bringing noah in. All i said is that i wasnt crazy about the extra year or 2 on the deal mostly because of his recent injuries/age. Thats not negativity thats just having a legit concern. You gotta let fans have their own voice and cant accuse them of negativity all the time

much of his value is connected with jackson's efforts to bring about "culture change." in this regard the length of the contract is just fine by me.

im ok with it. Id rather have noah than not at all. I just hope his body will stay relatively healthy the last 2 years of the deal

In this situation I think Noah is a great addition in terms of his mentoring of the young players and his overall intensity in practice and in games. He's just the right kind of player for a team looking to have a winning attitude. Players like Noah definitely change the culture. The goal is not only for Noah to play well, but for him to help the young guys develop faster and by being around Noah for the next year or more it's a good influence.
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