Off Topic · OT: Family of Charlotte Shooting Victim Releases Video! (page 9)

JesseDark wrote:Another example of complying and acting respectful

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9/2...

For those that say all y'all need to do is follow the officer's direction tell me what he did wrong.

Nobody is saying that all you need to do is follow direction and you will be fine. People are saying that you need to know how to act and comply to give you a better chance and not having an escalated situation.

As far as that video, it was absolutely heart wrenching and I think that those officers should not be fired, they should go to prison as an example of what happens to POS sh1t head police officers.

Its also great that they were able to get this footage. I think that there should never be an encounter that is not recorded and if there is, it would be akin to not reading miranda.

mreinman wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Another example of complying and acting respectful

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9/2...

For those that say all y'all need to do is follow the officer's direction tell me what he did wrong.

Nobody is saying that all you need to do is follow direction and you will be fine. People are saying that you need to know how to act and comply to give you a better chance and not having an escalated situation.

As far as that video, it was absolutely heart wrenching and I think that those officers should not be fired, they should go to prison as an example of what happens to POS sh1t head police officers.

Its also great that they were able to get this footage. I think that there should never be an encounter that is not recorded and if there is, it would be akin to not reading miranda.

Yes it is great that they had video otherwise it would have been this guys word vs the cops. This is an illustration of why so many African Americans are fed up with the excessive use of force and black men ending up dead at the hands of police. Black Lives Matter is a cry for police to treat us all with the same dignity and respect.

I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

Nalod wrote:I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

I will have to watch the video later. But reading the article. He resigned himself when he found out video was released. The dismissal is so that he can't get hired as an officer elsewhere. But the fact that he immediately resigned doesn't make him look good if he felt he didn't do anything wrong.

Nalod wrote:I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

The problems I see is that the guy is cooperating and the PO escalates the situation by smacking his phone away from him then getting physical. Given that Yourse didn't have id he was trying to get someone over there that could vouch for him. If that is against the law, which I don't believe it is, the solution is not to start fighting the person. Then once he has him in cuffs it is downright inhumane to drive his knee into the guys neck/shoulder area.
Incidents like this are not new they are just being recorded now. The way I see it good cops ( the female in this case) don't step in the way of bad cops often enough.

JesseDark wrote:

Nalod wrote:I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

The problems I see is that the guy is cooperating and the PO escalates the situation by smacking his phone away from him then getting physical. Given that Yourse didn't have id he was trying to get someone over there that could vouch for him. If that is against the law, which I don't believe it is, the solution is not to start fighting the person. Then once he has him in cuffs it is downright inhumane to drive his knee into the guys neck/shoulder area.
Incidents like this are not new they are just being recorded now. The way I see it good cops ( the female in this case) don't step in the way of bad cops often enough.

I suppose we jump to conclude that if he resigned to get rehired, he must be guilty.
Yes, the guy was cuffed and it was awful to restrain him that way. At that point the guy was enraged over being hurt and all was out of hand.
I have no bias on this one and do think our police are cooked and behaving badly in general. Technology has now swung in the favor of individuals and now police are accountable. This is a good thing!!!
At the same time, sham accusations of abuse also have evidence and police can defend against them.
Also a good thing.

There are more that 500 thousand caps in US...
So do you really expect this amount of people to be all smart and easy going?
Especially if a lot of them are paid low salaries for the job that not only not enjoyable but rather dangerous and irritating.
You talking about people who are facing senseless criminals, addicts, mentally ill and unstable people.
People who are all the time around death and dirt.
No one want to have any compassion to them. Guilty or not everyone is irritated about them stopping you and enforcing the law.
It goes both ways, and will go both way until people and police will start respecting each other.
The mistrust between police and African American people was build by generations and recent events does not help.

I am not African American so no matter what I do my experience with police will not be the same.
However when I interact with them I threat them as Gods.
I believe that I delegated them the right to direct me to do whatever they want me to do.
And I have a responsibility to assist them in any matter.

And per traffic stop just do this:
1. When directed to stop - stop.
2. Shut down the engine, turn the blinkers, open the window, prepare docs if time permit, sit still hands on the will
3. When officer approaches be polite, inform officer about you actions clearly in advance.
4. If asked for papers and they are in your pocket tell officer that papers are in your pocket and when directed reach for them.
5. After officer will go back to his car sit still and wait for him to come back - no calls, no watching him in the mirror, no other bool.
6. If asked to get out of the car get out hands up and follow directions.
7. No resistance physically or verbally, no jokes or profanity.
Except of the cases when you are dealing with maniac(s) you will be OK.

gunsnewing wrote:

Saw this for the first time yesterday. The officers have been arrested and charged and will probably be prosecuted. But that's not gonna bring that little boys life back for their decision to open fire like that. Or the fathers decision to drive away from the police with a 6 yr old in the car. Was a reason given why he was fleeing the police with a child in the car? Was he rushing his kid to the hospital or something?

All the other principals apply of a man not complying and officers reacting out of the unknown. This is a clear example for the need for more or better training and accountability to follow protocol which I doubt was to open fire like this.

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Saw this for the first time yesterday. The officers have been arrested and charged and will probably be prosecuted. But that's not gonna bring that little boys life back for their decision to open fire like that. Or the fathers decision to drive away from the police with a 6 yr old in the car. Was a reason given why he was fleeing the police with a child in the car? Was he rushing his kid to the hospital or something?

All the other principals apply of a man not complying and officers reacting out of the unknown. This is a clear example for the need for more or better training and accountability to follow protocol which I doubt was to open fire like this.

Another sad example of people reacting like human live does not matter.
The law exist to protect people not to kill them.
Obviously there is no way to save person from his own stupidity...
But for this kind of things to happen it takes more that one or 2 morons.
I fully understand the issues police have to stuff the force... and it will get even more difficult now with all this in the public eye of the storm...
Accountability need to be upped. But it will never happened without compensation going up along with educational, mental, and physical standards.

JesseDark wrote:Another example of complying and acting respectful

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9/2...

For those that say all y'all need to do is follow the officer's direction tell me what he did wrong.

The sad part is how many of these incidents happened when there weren't any video? Cop just writes the report, judge always sides with the cops, another black man with a police record. Not to mention the cop provoking the "suspect." Challenging the way he spelled his name?

mreinman wrote:Nobody is saying that all you need to do is follow direction and you will be fine. People are saying that you need to know how to act and comply to give you a better chance and not having an escalated situation.

Honesty, you really think the average white citizen needs to follow these same rules to keep from getting abused?

arkrud wrote:However when I interact with them I threat them as Gods.

And you don't see that the fact that you have to do this is a problem? In spite of how they view themselves they are not Gods. Maybe if they didn't act like were in the streets we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Nobody who is a sworn public servant should be treated like "Gods." I shouldn't have to sacrifice my rights and dignity to pacify a cop's ego. Basically you're saying dealing with the cops are no different than confronting a gang member.

The solutions isn't alternating our behavior to suit the cop's ego. The solution is the cops need to straighten up. However, we're dealing with a culture with the police that probably goes back hundreds of years.

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:However when I interact with them I threat them as Gods.

And you don't see that the fact that you have to do this is a problem? In spite of how they view themselves they are not Gods. Maybe if they didn't act like were in the streets we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Nobody who is a sworn public servant should be treated like "Gods." I shouldn't have to sacrifice my rights and dignity to pacify a cop's ego. Basically you're saying dealing with the cops are no different than confronting a gang member.

The solutions isn't alternating our behavior to suit the cop's ego. The solution is the cops need to straighten up. However, we're dealing with a culture with the police that probably goes back hundreds of years.

Police have mandate to protect law at any cost...
We can dispute if it is necessary to go this far and what a society should be when this is not necessary...
American police, American Gangs, all Americans are us, are our society.
We are collectively looking in the mirror of this dead boy eyes... and we see how ugly we still are.
We all need to get better. Collectively.
Put the blame around will not help.

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:However when I interact with them I threat them as Gods.

And you don't see that the fact that you have to do this is a problem? In spite of how they view themselves they are not Gods. Maybe if they didn't act like were in the streets we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Nobody who is a sworn public servant should be treated like "Gods." I shouldn't have to sacrifice my rights and dignity to pacify a cop's ego. Basically you're saying dealing with the cops are no different than confronting a gang member.

The solutions isn't alternating our behavior to suit the cop's ego. The solution is the cops need to straighten up. However, we're dealing with a culture with the police that probably goes back hundreds of years.

Police have mandate to protect law at any cost...

Where is that written anywhere? So if a cop has to shoot me in order to issue a traffic ticket you think they have a mandate to do it? Really?

Nalod wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

Nalod wrote:I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

The problems I see is that the guy is cooperating and the PO escalates the situation by smacking his phone away from him then getting physical. Given that Yourse didn't have id he was trying to get someone over there that could vouch for him. If that is against the law, which I don't believe it is, the solution is not to start fighting the person. Then once he has him in cuffs it is downright inhumane to drive his knee into the guys neck/shoulder area.
Incidents like this are not new they are just being recorded now. The way I see it good cops ( the female in this case) don't step in the way of bad cops often enough.

I suppose we jump to conclude that if he resigned to get rehired, he must be guilty.
Yes, the guy was cuffed and it was awful to restrain him that way. At that point the guy was enraged over being hurt and all was out of hand.
I have no bias on this one and do think our police are cooked and behaving badly in general. Technology has now swung in the favor of individuals and now police are accountable. This is a good thing!!!
At the same time, sham accusations of abuse also have evidence and police can defend against them.
Also a good thing.

Why did the PO escalate this interaction into a situation? His partner was checking the records, he didn't have to do anything. If he didn't want the man to make a phone call he should have told him so, instead he chose to attack an innocent person making a phone call without any provocation.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

Nalod wrote:I don't think I understand the "Yourse" incident and why the cop should go to prison?

1. Guy was trying to open the garage door with a shovel. Someone who did not ID him as being the son of the owner called the police.
2. He had no Key to the home, yet said he lived there. He said he grew up there and was "In and out".
3. Had prison tattoo's and verified he has been to prison, thus a record.
4. Had no ID on him to verify who he was, just a phone. Saying his name in two different ways could be construed as suspicious.
5. Tried to call his mother, she did not pick up.
6. Easy to see why he was nervous, as was the cop.
7. Called his friends to say what was happinging and cop thought that meant they should come over. Cop was concerned this turns into a confrontation.

I thought it went ok until he tried to take the phone away. That is when mr youse resisted and rightly so. I don't know if he can make a phone call at that moment? Does it matter who he calls and what is said?
I saw what happened. Im just not sure what I saw and thus DO NOT JUDGE WHAT I SAW. IM not trying to argue anything, please tell me what I saw that warranted his dismissal? Was it how he was restrained? That the officer struck him during the initial physical confrontation? What should the officer have done proper?

The problems I see is that the guy is cooperating and the PO escalates the situation by smacking his phone away from him then getting physical. Given that Yourse didn't have id he was trying to get someone over there that could vouch for him. If that is against the law, which I don't believe it is, the solution is not to start fighting the person. Then once he has him in cuffs it is downright inhumane to drive his knee into the guys neck/shoulder area.
Incidents like this are not new they are just being recorded now. The way I see it good cops ( the female in this case) don't step in the way of bad cops often enough.

I suppose we jump to conclude that if he resigned to get rehired, he must be guilty.
Yes, the guy was cuffed and it was awful to restrain him that way. At that point the guy was enraged over being hurt and all was out of hand.
I have no bias on this one and do think our police are cooked and behaving badly in general. Technology has now swung in the favor of individuals and now police are accountable. This is a good thing!!!
At the same time, sham accusations of abuse also have evidence and police can defend against them.
Also a good thing.

Why did the PO escalate this interaction into a situation? His partner was checking the records, he didn't have to do anything. If he didn't want the man to make a phone call he should have told him so, instead he chose to attack an innocent person making a phone call without any provocation.

More importantly, does the cop have the right to prevent you from making a call if you're not under arrest?

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Welpee wrote:

arkrud wrote:However when I interact with them I threat them as Gods.

And you don't see that the fact that you have to do this is a problem? In spite of how they view themselves they are not Gods. Maybe if they didn't act like were in the streets we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Nobody who is a sworn public servant should be treated like "Gods." I shouldn't have to sacrifice my rights and dignity to pacify a cop's ego. Basically you're saying dealing with the cops are no different than confronting a gang member.

The solutions isn't alternating our behavior to suit the cop's ego. The solution is the cops need to straighten up. However, we're dealing with a culture with the police that probably goes back hundreds of years.

Police have mandate to protect law at any cost...

Where is that written anywhere? So if a cop has to shoot me in order to issue a traffic ticket you think they have a mandate to do it? Really?

You cannot define everything is laws and instructions.
Many things are done depending on cultural level of people involved.
Police actions just shows the cultural level of US population.
Caps are not coming from another planet.
They are same people as you and me or any other average Joe.
They are of every race, ethnicity, etc.
So there is no us and them
We all are from the same place and time.
If we stop policing many areas in US they will became same as slams in Brazil or Congo.
Places where the gangs and guns rule everything.
Not like it is much different anyways but this reality defines how policing is setup.
When is the war - the civilians and bystanders will die.