crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Getting Nerlens Noel now would be like trading for a young Camby. It'd be a great, visionary move.
Noel brings some tantalizing possibilities. There are a lot of things that jump out at me as reasons this doesn't make sense.
Timing - We just signed a guy to center for 4 years and huge money.
Willy - I just looked up his measurements. In 2013 he measured 6'11 with a 7'2 wingspan so he certainly has the size to play the 5, is a lane clogging load and looks like a bigtime passer. Not Noel's defensive skill set but has other things he brings.
Contract - Noels expires at year end. What do you pay a guy when you have Noah, KP (who may end up at center anyway) and Willy?
I wont kill Noels for his bad offensive game as that has not been a great learning environment. That may or may not improve. I would rather pair KP with a young wing who defends... mostly based on the current roster makeup. I see your point and the young Camby compare might be a little too warm and fuzzy but it may be spot on. Hard to make it work right now IMO
Those are valid points. Knicks really need to score on a wing or a guard in this year's draft. I'm leery of giving away picks, but Noel is 22. Is he restricted this year? Usually you can keep restricted guys off the market. The front court would be set for years and it'd be about getting some guards either through the draft or free agency. Don't forget we're locked into CLee at a cheap price for several years. And Melo can opt out in 2018, leaving us with huge cap room at that point. In 2018, I think we'll be ready to fully build around KP. Having a 24yr old Noel and a 23yr old KP at that point, plus whatever the 2017 draft pick is would be a nice young core. But I'd also be fine having KP, 2017 pick and 2018 pick to build around at that point, too. Maybe Jennings sticks for a while, too. We shall see. But going after Noel wouldn't be a bad place to start. But I can see your point. I just don't wanna rely on Noah to play big minutes and I don't fully trust Willy to play enough D to be a starter.
fair enough, but those are the guys and you need to let it play out. Willy appears to be a good ball player and has a very blue collar game on offense. Most young big struggle defensively in the league so he gets to figure it out backing up Noah. All this also assume you want to avoid KP at center entirely. Its early but I see Melo getting time at PF and that is going to push KP to center at times. I just think Melo is a step slow for a SF on a team that wants to run and push. As a 4 he's a much better fit. Point is we aren't thin at center. In fact its more a glut. I see the rotation like this (give or take):
1) Noah 25 mins
2) Willy 15 mins - I think he beats KOQ for the backup center role
3) KP 8 mins - some stretches where Melo is at the 4, or Lance, or NDour, etc etc..
4) KOQ injury/foul trouble... I don't see him making the rotation
Interesting idea.. I just don't see a way to implement it that makes sense.
What is Nerlens passing acumen? Does he have the skill set to be a good passing 5? Gotta have guys that are prone to excel running the offense we will be.
Might we be able to draft a kid of similar skill?
What is Phil's impression of young Villy and his upside? Is it Chris Dudley, or Tiago Splitter?
What do we pay Noel going forward? Key ingredient is managing the cap and having yoots on rookies scale that produce.
And yes, we just paid Noah big money. He missed one game, one would hope this is not a chronic issue him missing games.
Lets wait until at least the third preseason game before we panic.
BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
Would have been an interesting move to make PRE-signing of Noah. Now, not so much. Pass.
Moonangie wrote:BRIGGS wrote:for Nerlens Noel
Would have been an interesting move to make PRE-signing of Noah. Now, not so much. Pass.
But, but, but,,,,,,,,,,,,after the loss in Houston, don't you think we need to make a change to shore up our interior defense?
We can't continue to add big men. Noel does nothing for us. Noah is that guy, but overall KP is going to be the center long-term. Willy gives us a long-term backup 4/5. We should really be focused on finding players that fit really well around KP. A stretch 4 and young PG are probably the roles we need to eventually fill with youth.
Well this would be a no brainer--signed Noah or not. I dont know what Philly is going to do with all of those bigs. We dont need a 4 we have that--we need a 5.
You know that would be the asking price?
What about Embiid? Can they rely on him?
Nalod wrote:You know that would be the asking price?
What about Embiid? Can they rely on him?
No idea--Maybe hes not even for sale. Hey will get 49 games out of Noah
The guy I'd want at 5 is Nikola Jokic, who I'd imagine would be an UNrestricted free agent once his rookie contract expires. The spacing he and KP could create would be insane. And defensively, they wouldn't be giving up much of anything.
If we're looking for a backup big, it should be a guy capable of being a stretch 4 and not a 5. We already have a two-center front with Porzingis and Noah/Willy Hernangomez starting. Ideally we'd need a guy that can either sub for 'Taps or allow for him to be shifted to the 5. A guy that I believe fits that description wonderfully is Dwight Powell. He did re-sign with the Mavs on a massive extension but they are a little thin at 5. Would a Hernangomez and salary swap work at the deadline?
So we just signed Noah.
The #2 prospect on the team after KP is Willy and he's a center.
The #1 prospect on the team might be a center.
And Noes is a FA. So we literally duplicate Phili's stupidity.
BRIGGS wrote:jrodmc wrote:Yeah, let's trade away 1st rounders! That's what Phil's been doing since he got here, right?
There's a way to trade picks. The way Dolan does it--giving them away for guys like Bargnanai --yeah thats ass backwards--I mean as stupid as it gets. But trading for a a player who is a building block type that can be used now at the old age of 21 is a good value of usage. Philadelphia cant keep all of those guys--wont happen. And NO WAY NO WAY NO HOW will J Noah play more than 65 games 24-26 minutes IF we are lucky. And then we have to hope it wasnt Noah of last year who wasnt that good. By the time Noel is 23--how good could he be--the odds of some kind of pick better than he in 2 years HMMM 100-1 no.
Noel will be ready for a nice big contract soon to so this doesn't look like a good trade to me.
BRIGGS wrote:Well this would be a no brainer--signed Noah or not. I dont know what Philly is going to do with all of those bigs. We dont need a 4 we have that--we need a 5.
It's only a no brainer in your mind and maybe a couple of others but the majority don't think it is. Shot blocking and rebounding centers are easy to find anyway.
newyorker4ever wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Well this would be a no brainer--signed Noah or not. I dont know what Philly is going to do with all of those bigs. We dont need a 4 we have that--we need a 5.
It's only a no brainer in your mind and maybe a couple of others but the majority don't think it is. Shot blocking and rebounding centers are easy to find anyway.
Watch Willy drops 20/10 tonight starting for Noah
If Noel is a FA after this yr then NO WAY can u make this trade. He is going for the max, like every FA will do and someone will come close to paying it.
Rather use the draft pick and have much more financial freedom. Need to look at the $ and the subsequent ramifications of giving big contracts.
Fortunately we will soon be able to draft in the first round again. Might be able to find KP's long term wingman there.
BRIGGS wrote:Nalod wrote:You know that would be the asking price?
What about Embiid? Can they rely on him?
No idea--Maybe hes not even for sale. Hey will get 49 games out of Noah
Was watching Embiid in preseason, always keeps his feet moving, dont believe they're going to let him go. I would see what they want for Okafor. They havent seen him play since the injury, if there was a time to lowball them with an offer it would be before he was playing again and possibly boosting his stock.
Would be great to have a twin towers going in NY, have Noah come off the bench and show them the ropes. Someone who could man the paint with KP for the next 5-10 years, who we dont have to worry about replacing. Be able to focus on other areas of the roster.
We have been down that path before. An overblown defensive 5 who is a liability on offense. And if we are going to give up a 1st round draft pick, why for a guy that has one more year before his contract explodes? Not to mention we already have several 5's on the roster. Don't think you make this or any other moves until you see how the roster plays out. Btw, I am shocked that Briggs wants to trade a 1st round pick? What would we do in 2018 without his endless draft prospect threads.
On the money Briggs I like it plenty. I wanted the Bulls big man in the Rose deal but prefer tho deal. Jennings and Randle may stay but Rose is probably here for a year. Take youth and talent now.
