Knicks · Cutting Randle was a mistake... (page 1)

Randle had the strongest Summer League out of all the rookies and was having the best preseason before his injury.

Our franchise player, Melo, went on record saying how much he loves his game and playing with him. He showed that he is a deadly shooter who can create offense for himself and others.

Randle also has a firm knowledge of the triangle from his Stanford days and exhibited he is a cerebral player who is a proven winner (he won at Stanford and won the title with his International team last year).

With Drose and Jennings as our two point guards, we needed a 3rd natural point guard on the roster who could step in on any moment's notice and play. How likely is it that both Drose and Jennings stay healthy the entire season and don't miss a number of games between them? Randle showed he can handle point guard duties all summer and through preseason.

While I like Baker, he showed in the D league he cannot play point guard. When he did prior to Randle playing, the D League team could not even function on offense. He cannot break down a defense nor penetrate. He's best suited playing off the ball at the guard spot.

Sasha had a great preseason, but again, is by no stretch a point guard. You can get away with it for a few minutes but he cannot handle permanent backup pg duties. Again, he cannot break down a defense nor penetrate (2 things essential for a point guard).

Plumlee showed me a lot in the preseason as a prospect, but with Noah, KOQ and Willy ahead of him at the 5 spot, how much is he going to play? We are loaded at the 5. Wouldn't it have been better for him to actually play in the D league rather than ride the pine with the Knicks?

I like Ndour making the roster because he's an athletic and active defender who could defend multiple positions (3,4,5) especially during switches. You could utilize that skill set during the course of the regular season.

I hope I'm wrong but I have been on record saying that if we cut Randle he would be picked up by another team or play overseas. IMO, he is too good to play in the D league. His unfortunate injury would have kept him inactive what--2 weeks--of the regular season? Is that such a big deal that you jeopardize losing him at a thin position filled with injury risks?!?

Hope we don't regret it.

a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

I'm willing to bet that you could defend like Sasha lol But it was just a numbers game. I'm guessing that Jennings, and hopefully, Rose, will get so many minutes that it won't matter anyway.

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

yep.

He's hurt. What is so difficult about this on a team that's got the injury Cumulonimbus cloud of all time hanging over it already?

Its a calculated risk....Randle is the same player who was already drafted, cut and passed on by multiple teams when healthy. The knicks are the only team that gave him a legit chance to play. It would be bad advice for him to go to another team. Also during the season, they can always swop out their 15th players. I believe the knicks are using westchester as their AAA league where injured players or players in training will go. I havent studied randles game, but based on small comments, sounds like he has tunnel vision as a small SG, in a PG body. Other teams are cutting better players. I thought ndour should've been cut based on preseason performance, but I understand the move and im also an ndour fan.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:Randle had the strongest Summer League out of all the rookies and was having the best preseason before his injury.

Our franchise player, Melo, went on record saying how much he loves his game and playing with him. He showed that he is a deadly shooter who can create offense for himself and others.

Randle also has a firm knowledge of the triangle from his Stanford days and exhibited he is a cerebral player who is a proven winner (he won at Stanford and won the title with his International team last year).

With Drose and Jennings as our two point guards, we needed a 3rd natural point guard on the roster who could step in on any moment's notice and play. How likely is it that both Drose and Jennings stay healthy the entire season and don't miss a number of games between them? Randle showed he can handle point guard duties all summer and through preseason.

While I like Baker, he showed in the D league he cannot play point guard. When he did prior to Randle playing, the D League team could not even function on offense. He cannot break down a defense nor penetrate. He's best suited playing off the ball at the guard spot.

Sasha had a great preseason, but again, is by no stretch a point guard. You can get away with it for a few minutes but he cannot handle permanent backup pg duties. Again, he cannot break down a defense nor penetrate (2 things essential for a point guard).

Plumlee showed me a lot in the preseason as a prospect, but with Noah, KOQ and Willy ahead of him at the 5 spot, how much is he going to play? We are loaded at the 5. Wouldn't it have been better for him to actually play in the D league rather than ride the pine with the Knicks?

I like Ndour making the roster because he's an athletic and active defender who could defend multiple positions (3,4,5) especially during switches. You could utilize that skill set during the course of the regular season.

I hope I'm wrong but I have been on record saying that if we cut Randle he would be picked up by another team or play overseas. IMO, he is too good to play in the D league. His unfortunate injury would have kept him inactive what--2 weeks--of the regular season? Is that such a big deal that you jeopardize losing him at a thin position filled with injury risks?!?

Hope we don't regret it.

baker will make a believer out of you. he got better over the preseason. all he needs is a chance, and i hope hornacek finds meaningful minutes for him.

blkexec wrote:Randle is the same player who was already drafted, cut and passed on by multiple teams when healthy . . .

. . . teams that don't run the Triangle.

Malcolm wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the same player who was already drafted, cut and passed on by multiple teams when healthy . . .

. . . teams that don't run the Triangle.

Exactly.....which means his chances of returning is high. Not too many teams run this system anymore, that can utilize an undersized SG. But when he gets healthy and improve his court vision, I'm sure the knick will either drop a weak link or trade someone to open a spot for him or someone better.

blkexec wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

blkexec wrote:Randle is the same player who was already drafted, cut and passed on by multiple teams when healthy . . .

. . . teams that don't run the Triangle.

Exactly.....which means his chances of returning is high. Not too many teams run this system anymore, that can utilize an undersized SG. But when he gets healthy and improve his court vision, I'm sure the knick will either drop a weak link or trade someone to open a spot for him or someone better.

Agreed -- seems a reasonable perspective . . .

sounds like beno udrih is about to get cut. id take a chance with him. a solid vet back up who didnt get a fair chance his first time in nyc

callmened wrote:sounds like beno udrih is about to get cut. id take a chance with him. a solid vet back up who didnt get a fair chance his first time in nyc

Didn't he come to camp in bad shape (fat)?

not that i know of...i cant confirm or deny that.

i do know hes had some injury issues the past few seasons

callmened wrote:not that i know of...i cant confirm or deny that.

i do know hes had some injury issues the past few seasons

I meant when he was on the Knicks.

CrushAlot wrote:

callmened wrote:not that i know of...i cant confirm or deny that.

i do know hes had some injury issues the past few seasons

I meant when he was on the Knicks.

He was definitely out shape.

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

Pretty much agree and well said there. I think we got a few more weeks to look more at NDour and any other bubble guys. I do like Randle, but as you said, there are better guys out there, triangle not considered, lol.

Have to say it, we have a very nice looking team, and not just on paper. If we get clicking, we have the capability to compete at a high level.
If and when KP reaches that next level, and Melo is still around AND we get another player or two rise up, look out.
Anything is truly possible.

(As dk7th said - watch Baker. This cat might do a lot more than we can expect. He has a mini-IT factor going on.)

Berman article makes it sound like NDour was the guy to go if they kept Randle.

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

a) And how do you know this exactly? The only way he winds up in Westchester is if Phil guarantees him a roster spot with the big club once he recovers from his injury. Two other NBA teams showed interest in Randle when he chose us for Summer league and preseason.

B) name me one pg who is better who was waived? You can maybe sell me on Jarret Jack but he's older and coming off a bad injury. Spencer Dinwiddie?!? Randle had a better Summer League and preseason.

C) He's only out another 2 weeks.

D) He is above 6 feet tall so he's not a midget and handled his own defensively, although defense is not his main strength. DRose is not a small pg.

E) Sasha has a great preseason, but he's not a point guard--never will be. Baker proved in Summer League he cannot run the point. What makes you think he can run it against NBA caliber teams applying pressure on him?

I hope I'm wrong. I hope we retain him, but unless we guarantee him a future roster spot, what's his incentive? He can make more money playing overseas like he did last year or joining another NBA team. He was a gem of a find and a perfect fit for our team. It would be a shame to lose him at a position we're already thin in.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

a) And how do you know this exactly? The only way he winds up in Westchester is if Phil guarantees him a roster spot with the big club once he recovers from his injury. Two other NBA teams showed interest in Randle when he chose us for Summer league and preseason.

B) name me one pg who is better who was waived? You can maybe sell me on Jarret Jack but he's older and coming off a bad injury. Spencer Dinwiddie?!? Randle had a better Summer League and preseason.

C) He's only out another 2 weeks.

D) He is above 6 feet tall so he's not a midget and handled his own defensively, although defense is not his main strength. DRose is not a small pg.

E) Sasha has a great preseason, but he's not a point guard--never will be. Baker proved in Summer League he cannot run the point. What makes you think he can run it against NBA caliber teams applying pressure on him?

I hope I'm wrong. I hope we retain him, but unless we guarantee him a future roster spot, what's his incentive? He can make more money playing overseas like he did last year or joining another NBA team. He was a gem of a find and a perfect fit for our team. It would be a shame to lose him at a position we're already thin in.

Sam Vecenie was on Locked on Knicks talking about Baker and Randle. He does the mock drafts for cbs sports and scouted both guys. It is a really good listen if you have the time. One of the things he mentioned was the difference in Randle's numbers when he went from a lower level league in europe to a higher level league. He thought the knicks should keep Baker over Randle because Baker was more versatile. He also thought Baker was a better prospect than Plumlee. He loves NDour but mentioned the Knicks roster imbalance etc. I know I am forgetting a lot but it was a good listen. Also, I think Randle will be picked up by the Knicks. I think either there is a trade (O'Quinn) or a guy is cut, NDour or Plumlee to make room for Randle later in the season.
https://audioboom.com/posts/5152468-lock...

blkexec wrote:Its a calculated risk....Randle is the same player who was already drafted, cut and passed on by multiple teams when healthy. The knicks are the only team that gave him a legit chance to play.

I don't think that's true. I think he was invited to other camps from what I remember and chose the Knicks.

CrushAlot wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

fishmike wrote:a) he's not gone. He probably ends up on the Westchester team
b) he's not even the best PG who ends up getting cut around the league.
c) he's hurt and out for 4-6 weeks
d) he's really small, and we already have 2 really small guards in the rotation
e) they value Sasha's experience and Baker's versatility more. Sasha can play 3 spots on the floor, Baker 2, and both are probably ahead of Randle in the rotation. Even if they aren't see point (c)

So yea... Sasha cant break down a D or penetrate like Randle. Can Randle defend like Sasha? And Sasha is much better away from the ball and size matters. 6'7 vs. 5'11 (or whatever Randle is). This is still the NBA

Its easy to like Randle. Good story. Don't assume you have seen the last of him

a) And how do you know this exactly? The only way he winds up in Westchester is if Phil guarantees him a roster spot with the big club once he recovers from his injury. Two other NBA teams showed interest in Randle when he chose us for Summer league and preseason.

B) name me one pg who is better who was waived? You can maybe sell me on Jarret Jack but he's older and coming off a bad injury. Spencer Dinwiddie?!? Randle had a better Summer League and preseason.

C) He's only out another 2 weeks.

D) He is above 6 feet tall so he's not a midget and handled his own defensively, although defense is not his main strength. DRose is not a small pg.

E) Sasha has a great preseason, but he's not a point guard--never will be. Baker proved in Summer League he cannot run the point. What makes you think he can run it against NBA caliber teams applying pressure on him?

I hope I'm wrong. I hope we retain him, but unless we guarantee him a future roster spot, what's his incentive? He can make more money playing overseas like he did last year or joining another NBA team. He was a gem of a find and a perfect fit for our team. It would be a shame to lose him at a position we're already thin in.

Sam Vecenie was on Locked on Knicks talking about Baker and Randle. He does the mock drafts for cbs sports and scouted both guys. It is a really good listen if you have the time. One of the things he mentioned was the difference in Randle's numbers when he went from a lower level league in europe to a higher level league. He thought the knicks should keep Baker over Randle because Baker was more versatile. He also thought Baker was a better prospect than Plumlee. He loves NDour but mentioned the Knicks roster imbalance etc. I know I am forgetting a lot but it was a good listen. Also, I think Randle will be picked up by the Knicks. I think either there is a trade (O'Quinn) or a guy is cut, NDour or Plumlee to make room for Randle later in the season.
https://audioboom.com/posts/5152468-lock...

If they decide to trade O'Quinn now would be the time. He's looked good the past couple of games. Maybe be they were trying to showcase him? He had his moments last year too and couldn't sustain it. Hubie said it best on the telecast how you can fall in love with the guy if you catch him on the right night. Similar to Samuel Dalembert.