Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:In a hypothetical re-draft with Knicks having the #1 - I'd take Towns right now, but only by the slimmest margin.Of course, I'm also elated that we "fell" to 4 and landed our unicorn. We probably would not have picked him at a higher slot, and we'd be mired in the usual frustrations of a Knicks fan.
Yeah it's amazing that what looked like bad luck was actually a great break
Phil spoke as if he didn't want Okafor. All his talk about Duke players not living up to high expectations and his style not being fit for today's game. I think he definitely would have taken Russell at #2. At #3, he would have either reluctantly taken Okafor with fear of passing on him for a complete unknown, or the more likely scenario, would have taken Porzingis and pissed everyones off and risks losing the entire faith of the franchise at least for the off-season.
I think Phil wanted Okafor pretty badly. He also downplayed KP - he was quick to highlight that KP got injured during the workout with the Knicks. Once I heard that, I knew Phil was taking KP if Okafor was off the board. But I think the way he downplayed Okafor was similar - he was trying to act like he didn't want him. Standard pre-draft smokescreen.
It is funny that we all thought it was terrible to get the 4th pick, but really the only way it could've worked out better is if we got #1 overall. KP was a godsend. Whatever happens this season, I hope we continue to develop him well and can add some nice young draft picks around him in the coming years.
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:In a hypothetical re-draft with Knicks having the #1 - I'd take Towns right now, but only by the slimmest margin.Of course, I'm also elated that we "fell" to 4 and landed our unicorn. We probably would not have picked him at a higher slot, and we'd be mired in the usual frustrations of a Knicks fan.
Yeah it's amazing that what looked like bad luck was actually a great break
Phil spoke as if he didn't want Okafor. All his talk about Duke players not living up to high expectations and his style not being fit for today's game. I think he definitely would have taken Russell at #2. At #3, he would have either reluctantly taken Okafor with fear of passing on him for a complete unknown, or the more likely scenario, would have taken Porzingis and pissed everyones off and risks losing the entire faith of the franchise at least for the off-season.
I think Phil wanted Okafor pretty badly. He also downplayed KP - he was quick to highlight that KP got injured during the workout with the Knicks. Once I heard that, I knew Phil was taking KP if Okafor was off the board. But I think the way he downplayed Okafor was similar - he was trying to act like he didn't want him. Standard pre-draft smokescreen.
It is funny that we all thought it was terrible to get the 4th pick, but really the only way it could've worked out better is if we got #1 overall. KP was a godsend. Whatever happens this season, I hope we continue to develop him well and can add some nice young draft picks around him in the coming years.
This was from the ESPN Phil Files and came out a month after the draft. Seems like the only smokescreen might have been people thinking he would take Okafor if he was on the board.
"At best, the Knicks would get the first pick and tab center Jahlil Okafor, although Jackson thinks he might not be aggressive enough. "Also, if you look at the guys who came to the NBA from Duke, aside from Grant Hill, which ones lived up to expectations?"
At the very least, it was clear he wanted Towns at #1, which at the time, wasn't as obvious as it is today. But as far as #4, who knows.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:In a hypothetical re-draft with Knicks having the #1 - I'd take Towns right now, but only by the slimmest margin.Of course, I'm also elated that we "fell" to 4 and landed our unicorn. We probably would not have picked him at a higher slot, and we'd be mired in the usual frustrations of a Knicks fan.
Yeah it's amazing that what looked like bad luck was actually a great break
Phil spoke as if he didn't want Okafor. All his talk about Duke players not living up to high expectations and his style not being fit for today's game. I think he definitely would have taken Russell at #2. At #3, he would have either reluctantly taken Okafor with fear of passing on him for a complete unknown, or the more likely scenario, would have taken Porzingis and pissed everyones off and risks losing the entire faith of the franchise at least for the off-season.
I think Phil wanted Okafor pretty badly. He also downplayed KP - he was quick to highlight that KP got injured during the workout with the Knicks. Once I heard that, I knew Phil was taking KP if Okafor was off the board. But I think the way he downplayed Okafor was similar - he was trying to act like he didn't want him. Standard pre-draft smokescreen.
It is funny that we all thought it was terrible to get the 4th pick, but really the only way it could've worked out better is if we got #1 overall. KP was a godsend. Whatever happens this season, I hope we continue to develop him well and can add some nice young draft picks around him in the coming years.
This was from the ESPN Phil Files and came out a month after the draft. Seems like the only smokescreen might have been people thinking he would take Okafor if he was on the board.
"At best, the Knicks would get the first pick and tab center Jahlil Okafor, although Jackson thinks he might not be aggressive enough. "Also, if you look at the guys who came to the NBA from Duke, aside from Grant Hill, which ones lived up to expectations?"
At the very least, it was clear he wanted Towns at #1, which at the time, wasn't as obvious as it is today. But as far as #4, who knows.
Towns at #1 was quite obvious before, during and after the draft.
Moonangie wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Moonangie wrote:In a hypothetical re-draft with Knicks having the #1 - I'd take Towns right now, but only by the slimmest margin.Of course, I'm also elated that we "fell" to 4 and landed our unicorn. We probably would not have picked him at a higher slot, and we'd be mired in the usual frustrations of a Knicks fan.
Yeah it's amazing that what looked like bad luck was actually a great break
Phil spoke as if he didn't want Okafor. All his talk about Duke players not living up to high expectations and his style not being fit for today's game. I think he definitely would have taken Russell at #2. At #3, he would have either reluctantly taken Okafor with fear of passing on him for a complete unknown, or the more likely scenario, would have taken Porzingis and pissed everyones off and risks losing the entire faith of the franchise at least for the off-season.
I think Phil wanted Okafor pretty badly. He also downplayed KP - he was quick to highlight that KP got injured during the workout with the Knicks. Once I heard that, I knew Phil was taking KP if Okafor was off the board. But I think the way he downplayed Okafor was similar - he was trying to act like he didn't want him. Standard pre-draft smokescreen.
It is funny that we all thought it was terrible to get the 4th pick, but really the only way it could've worked out better is if we got #1 overall. KP was a godsend. Whatever happens this season, I hope we continue to develop him well and can add some nice young draft picks around him in the coming years.
This was from the ESPN Phil Files and came out a month after the draft. Seems like the only smokescreen might have been people thinking he would take Okafor if he was on the board.
"At best, the Knicks would get the first pick and tab center Jahlil Okafor, although Jackson thinks he might not be aggressive enough. "Also, if you look at the guys who came to the NBA from Duke, aside from Grant Hill, which ones lived up to expectations?"
At the very least, it was clear he wanted Towns at #1, which at the time, wasn't as obvious as it is today. But as far as #4, who knows.
Towns at #1 was quite obvious before, during and after the draft.
Correct, sorry i wasn't clear. I meant at the time when Phil discussed Okafor and Duke players, which was during the NCAA season, i think in january or feb. At that point, Okafor was considered to be a possible #1 pick, and doesn't seem like Phil was in agreement.
Bumping this a little bit...
Have opinions at all changed? It can be argued that KP is having a better season than Towns, although they are pretty close. KP has taken a major step forward and Towns has only really taken a minor step forward. Has KP caught up to Towns at this point? Or is there still something that separates Towns from KP as far as being a player you would prefer to start a franchise with?
Perhaps if we watched towns as we do KP we would feel different? We got KP homerism fanboy hope/hype.
KP also has A former MVP, a 9 time all-star with NCAA chip and 3 gold metals, and the Lord of the Rings in his ear.
Towns has Rubio, Wiggens, and Thibs screaming in his ear!!! At least last year he had Crazy Uncle Kevin (Garnett) screaming too!
My homerism toward KP is strong but also understand we are developing a kid with a higher ceiling then Towns.
Objectively, I get where GM's are coming from but also understand this was preseason and KP is showing some gaudy numbers the last week, so lets not forget some of that.
Knixkik wrote:Bumping this a little bit...Have opinions at all changed? It can be argued that KP is having a better season than Towns, although they are pretty close. KP has taken a major step forward and Towns has only really taken a minor step forward. Has KP caught up to Towns at this point? Or is there still something that separates Towns from KP as far as being a player you would prefer to start a franchise with?
AD shut down Towns last night...AD was a man among boys...AD held him to 9 points with great defense...AD dropped 45 on Minny with a multitude of Minny players running at him..KP and Towns have a lot of growing to do..Winning is talent as well..When these guys are leading their teams to winning situations is when it all matters, right now they are trying to find their way in the NBA, establish themselves...
And throw Embiid in the conversation...
Nalod wrote:Perhaps if we watched towns as we do KP we would feel different? We got KP homerism fanboy hope/hype.
KP also has A former MVP, a 9 time all-star with NCAA chip and 3 gold metals, and the Lord of the Rings in his ear.
Towns has Rubio, Wiggens, and Thibs screaming in his ear!!! At least last year he had Crazy Uncle Kevin (Garnett) screaming too!My homerism toward KP is strong but also understand we are developing a kid with a higher ceiling then Towns.
Objectively, I get where GM's are coming from but also understand this was preseason and KP is showing some gaudy numbers the last week, so lets not forget some of that.
So using the GM's preseason survey as a baseline, do you feel like many of them have flipped to considering KP a good option to start a franchise with over Towns?
Homerism aside... KP is the real deal. I was nervous he was going to regress then he too 2 steps forward in his development. He can clearly take a few more. Right now he's a legit all star candidate without really getting after people. He can get 18-20pts being passive. He can get 30 looking for his shot. When he realizes how good he is 40-50 pts will come as frequently as it did for Melo in his younger days.... and that's the truth ruth.
He's different than Towns, Anthony Davis, and Embiid but those are his only peers in the league right now. We are very lucky to have KP
EnySpree wrote:Homerism aside... KP is the real deal. I was nervous he was going to regress then he too 2 steps forward in his development. He can clearly take a few more. Right now he's a legit all star candidate without really getting after people. He can get 18-20pts being passive. He can get 30 looking for his shot. When he realizes how good he is 40-50 pts will come as frequently as it did for Melo in his younger days.... and that's the truth ruth.He's different than Towns, Anthony Davis, and Embiid but those are his only peers in the league right now. We are very lucky to have KP
I'm not ready to put Embiid in the same category as KP or Towns...yet at least. He's a couple years older than them, carries significantly more baggage with the injury concerns, and is putting up huge numbers on a team that has literally no one else to score. I think he might get there, but it's way too early to tell.
EnySpree wrote:Homerism aside... KP is the real deal. I was nervous he was going to regress then he too 2 steps forward in his development. He can clearly take a few more. Right now he's a legit all star candidate without really getting after people. He can get 18-20pts being passive. He can get 30 looking for his shot. When he realizes how good he is 40-50 pts will come as frequently as it did for Melo in his younger days.... and that's the truth ruth.He's different than Towns, Anthony Davis, and Embiid but those are his only peers in the league right now. We are very lucky to have KP
Watching Anthony Davis and Towns last night he's in another class right now. Davis is fully matured and his game is fully developed at this point. I can see KP getting to that point as he continues to develop physically. He's already at such a high level skills wise. KP's body has to catch up to his talent level and then he'll really dominate.
Last year I thought Towns was and would be better. as long as kp stays healthy he could become the best player in the game
Towns is still much more mature physically than KP...he also has a much better post-up game. These are both things KP will catch up to him on, though. I'm also one who thinks KP has more room to improve than Towns, but to be honest, I don't care that much about the individual comparisons...I just want a successful team. You think Bill Russell was concerned about comparisons with Wilt while he was winning all those titles with the Celtics?
I was and am a big fan of Towns. Guy is a competitor, has tons of skill, and from everything I've read and seen he is a great teammate and personable guy. We would have loved him, on and off the court, if we had somehow gotten him, but we had no chance at all to pick him up.
In KP we got a great pick, though, and I don't think the comparison thing makes much sense at this point since neither player is fully developed.
We got the best player available at #4, and a guy with the potential to be a top 5 player(or better) in the entire NBA at some point. Can't ask much more from a #4 pick in the draft.
I'd rather just sit back and enjoy what he can do now, and imagine what he will be like in the near future.
WaltLongmire wrote:Towns is still much more mature physically than KP...he also has a much better post-up game. These are both things KP will catch up to him on, though. I'm also one who thinks KP has more room to improve than Towns, but to be honest, I don't care that much about the individual comparisons...I just want a successful team. You think Bill Russell was concerned about comparisons with Wilt while he was winning all those titles with the Celtics?I was and am a big fan of Towns. Guy is a competitor, has tons of skill, and from everything I've read and seen he is a great teammate and personable guy. We would have loved him, on and off the court, if we had somehow gotten him, but we had no chance at all to pick him up.
In KP we got a great pick, though, and I don't think the comparison thing makes much sense at this point since neither player is fully developed.
We got the best player available at #4, and a guy with the potential to be a top 5 player(or better) in the entire NBA at some point. Can't ask much more from a #4 pick in the draft.
I'd rather just sit back and enjoy what he can do now, and imagine what he will be like in the near future.
totally agree. Always fun to compare guys in a draft class, but the easy thing with KP is there can never be buyers remorse. He could get hurt but I think most now recognize the talent level is NBA elite and its back by a great family, work ethic and love for the game. Can hurt having his best buddy here now also, guys like Melo taking him under the wing, the city quickly falling in love... he's set up for success and it just looks like it going to be fun to watch.
All about the team, and I love the mix of now and future. Every game we see Willy and KP grow, and at the same time our vets are gelling and looking better as well. I think we could be seeing the perfect storm, a solid crew of vets playing at a high level but with young franchise level talent growing alongside it. Remember Duncan's early years while they struggled to build a team around him? No... because he was winning titles with veterans. Fingers crossed 
Anthony Davis on a good team in a big market might be the biggest name.
He is rarely in the conversation. Injuries are a problem, but we have seen many young players grow thru them.
He is a top 5 Yoot. Good enough for me. Don't matter who GM's want to build with preseason, its post season that counts.
I've watched enough of the t wolves to know they are a not a good team . As impressive as towns is statwise he struggles to make a real impact on the game. Honestly when you finish watching the t wolves and you look at the stat sheet your like "wow towns had 21 points and 9 rebounds " that was the quietest 21 points in the game" .
This is where, porzingis is far more advanced then towns. Towns points aren't leading to victories, to where kp is starting to carry the team as he is becoming the most dominant player on the floor scoring big buckets when it counts.
Now will towns become that dominant effecting the outcome of games yes but right now KP is the more dominant prospect effecting the end results of the game. towns is not taking over games like KP has been doing .
towns has all the skill as KP 3 inches shorter. Will he start to carry that team yes but KP is beating him to it.
Nalod wrote:Anthony Davis on a good team in a big market might be the biggest name.
He is rarely in the conversation. Injuries are a problem, but we have seen many young players grow thru them.He is a top 5 Yoot. Good enough for me. Don't matter who GM's want to build with preseason, its post season that counts.
AD has had the same nagging shoulder injury the last three years where he refused to get surgery on it..He just caved in and had surgery on it in the last off season...He had knee issues last season..Numbers are one thing but winning is a talent...Ask KLove...KLove dropped 34 in the first quarter with 5 mins left on the same Portland team that KP dropped 31 pts on...Channing Frye following up the second quarter with 14 pts on Portland..Bron added 31 last half of the game...Their front line is horrible..It's a long season...
Knixkik wrote:I think these 2 will be forever linked. Both have the potential and talent to lead their franchises to success and become future Hall of Famers. But over the last year, Towns has become the guy most GM's would want to build a franchise around. I can't say i disagree, but i want to know why there is such a large perceived gap between he and KP. Both are the same age (3 months apart), and Towns is more developed physically, which typically indicates he's a slightly more finished product. His post game is more defined and he's a better rebounder too. But KP is taller, maybe a little more athletic, better pure shooter, much more defensive potential given his length, and was better than Towns in most advanced metrics last season, such as WS and RPM. Both seem to have the IQ, work ethics, drive, and overall 'it' factors that it takes to be a superstar. I have no doubt both will be great. I am not saying KP is or will be better than Towns, but i am curious as to what the general opinion is on why he is such a better overall talent.
Whomever says Towns > KP is wrong. KP significantly more upside due to his movement/skill levels and overall athleticism.
Towns is simply physically mor mature -- KP will push past him next few years.
A-Davis is another matter because he moves so fluidly and has such a high skill but his issue to date is injury and missing lots of games.
LivingLegend wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I think every edge goes to Towns even as a sooter. KP might have the better looking stroke but Towns is more effective. A lot of shooters had better looking shots than Reggie Miller but Miller's was more effective than most and Towns is similar. People get hung up on KP size but it's a blessing and a curse. It may prevent him from being a great defender because he can notsink his base which is why he gets blown by on close outs so much.KP has a lot of work to do and until he gets stronger(not necessarily bigger) he will have a hard time taking advantage of his size because players can push him off his spots and he struggles in traffic at the rim. He was suppose to work out with Dirk this summer but they couldn't hook up hopefully he will work out with Dirk and his coach going forward to help him refine his skills. KP has so much potential in so many areas that it may be hard for him to develop everything at once. He needs to take it slow and add one or two thinks each summer. Look at how Blake Griffin kept developing year after year adding a little more each year. He went from a finisher to someone who can run the break. A one lob machine to a mid range dynamo. On top of all that he became a high post playmaker. Hopefully Noah can teach him that and if Rose can return to avg of status it would help as teams rotate to give help on Rose off a PnR it leave KP free to shoot or attack the 4 on 3 opportunities similar to how Draymond, Blake, Plumlee, and best of all Noah does.
Also, KP is probably even behind Jokic offensively and who knows what kind of years Turner and Embiid out up. KP can't test on his laurals or he could get left behind.
Blind.
Agree blind . KP is turning into a super star effecting the outcome of games until I see that from towns, KP has the edge . I watch a lot of t wolves games and KAT Has invisible stats like wow KAT had 21 points and 9 boards and they lost by 20... KP is putting up those numbers and winning games also being a dominant force to end games ... towns is not there yet .
fitzfarm wrote:LivingLegend wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I think every edge goes to Towns even as a sooter. KP might have the better looking stroke but Towns is more effective. A lot of shooters had better looking shots than Reggie Miller but Miller's was more effective than most and Towns is similar. People get hung up on KP size but it's a blessing and a curse. It may prevent him from being a great defender because he can notsink his base which is why he gets blown by on close outs so much.KP has a lot of work to do and until he gets stronger(not necessarily bigger) he will have a hard time taking advantage of his size because players can push him off his spots and he struggles in traffic at the rim. He was suppose to work out with Dirk this summer but they couldn't hook up hopefully he will work out with Dirk and his coach going forward to help him refine his skills. KP has so much potential in so many areas that it may be hard for him to develop everything at once. He needs to take it slow and add one or two thinks each summer. Look at how Blake Griffin kept developing year after year adding a little more each year. He went from a finisher to someone who can run the break. A one lob machine to a mid range dynamo. On top of all that he became a high post playmaker. Hopefully Noah can teach him that and if Rose can return to avg of status it would help as teams rotate to give help on Rose off a PnR it leave KP free to shoot or attack the 4 on 3 opportunities similar to how Draymond, Blake, Plumlee, and best of all Noah does.
Also, KP is probably even behind Jokic offensively and who knows what kind of years Turner and Embiid out up. KP can't test on his laurals or he could get left behind.
Blind.
Agree blind . KP is turning into a super star effecting the outcome of games until I see that from towns, KP has the edge . I watch a lot of t wolves games and KAT Has invisible stats like wow KAT had 21 points and 9 boards and they lost by 20... KP is putting up those numbers and winning games also being a dominant force to end games ... towns is not there yet .
The only gap as of right now is physical maturity, however Kristaps is showing ways to score with his height and this will continue and can be seen right now through the jump he is taking. Do I think Towns should have won Rookie of the Year? Yes. Do I think he deserved it unanimously? Nope.
This is a very impressive stat to think about as well, I really believe Kristaps deserved more recognition at Roy voting for that record alone.
