StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."that's code for "he's being frozen out."
pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.
this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.
what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.
that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.
the good news is that we have our draft picks plus rose is a expiring contract. I like hornacek and i hope he is more forceful in what he says
i don't see it happening. rose and melo are a HORRIBLE combination and a HORRIBLE influence on one another.
its exactly what i feared and part of the reason i disliked the trade. Can KP be more aggressive? Of course but they arent exactly looking for him either.
yeah people who say "kp needs to be more aggressive" or "kp needs to demand the ball" or "kp isn't that guy" or "it's not kp's time he needs to be brought along slowly"... are essentially full o' shyte.
look at the advanced stats tomorrow-- i am certain the usage rates for melo and rose will be similar as they were in the detroit game.
SHAMEFUL
dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."that's code for "he's being frozen out."
pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.
this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.
what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.
that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.
A lot of this ultimately falls on Jeff, he needs to design and call plays to get KP6 the ball instead of the wild "go as you like it, chuck when you can" offense we are running now. Once teams collapse on Rose and he has no awareness of where his teammates are it's over. We definitely need some adult supervision on offense and it has to come from the coach. If Melo hold or starts pounding the ball, he should be taken out for a few minutes. At least get Noah to throw some alley-oops to KP6
meloshouldgo wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."that's code for "he's being frozen out."
pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.
this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.
what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.
that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.
A lot of this ultimately falls on Jeff, he needs to design and call plays to get KP6 the ball instead of the wild "go as you like it, chuck when you can" offense we are running now. Once teams collapse on Rose and he has no awareness of where his teammates are it's over. We definitely need some adult supervision on offense and it has to come from the coach. If Melo hold or starts pounding the ball, he should be taken out for a few minutes. At least get Noah to throw some alley-oops to KP6
it falls on the coach except when the players are not coachable or cannot do what the coach asks of them. some players are not willing, others are not able, some are neither willing nor able.
dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:dk7th wrote:hornacek: "kp is often in a mismatch and we are not looking for him. we have to take advantage of that."that's code for "he's being frozen out."
pretty much. Look i admit KP had a terrible game but he needs to be a priority on offense.
this year should have been about developing kp6 as the main guy, so you had to be concerned when jackson acquired rose and jennings, albeit on one-year contracts. as we all know, this was done to appease carmelo anthiny, who looks every bit the 32 year old he is-- with 33,000 minutes logged in the nba, and who is averaging close to 35 minutes a game thus far this season. this is a very bad trend.
what we have seen thus far is what happens when you try to accomplish two separate agendas: you can't serve melo's agenda and not expect kp6 to get screwed.
that's the big picture, but my guess is that most posters on knicks forums essentially can't see the forest for the trees.
the good news is that we have our draft picks plus rose is a expiring contract. I like hornacek and i hope he is more forceful in what he says
i don't see it happening. rose and melo are a HORRIBLE combination and a HORRIBLE influence on one another.
its exactly what i feared and part of the reason i disliked the trade. Can KP be more aggressive? Of course but they arent exactly looking for him either.
yeah people who say "kp needs to be more aggressive" or "kp needs to demand the ball" or "kp isn't that guy" or "it's not kp's time he needs to be brought along slowly"... are essentially full o' shyte.
look at the advanced stats tomorrow-- i am certain the usage rates for melo and rose will be similar as they were in the detroit game.
SHAMEFUL
Go look at the game again..In the second quarter KP was playing with the second unit(LT, Holliday, N'Dour, Jennings) before he picked up his third foul..He runs up court and stands in the corner letting N'Dour be the main pick and roll guy and post play guy on four possessions..KP is standing in the corner waiting to shoot the three on two of those possessions..Who is calling those plays?
Dolan family owns the Cleveland Indians..
Courtney Lee says the Knicks should "practice against more game-like situations" rather than practicing against the triangle offense. "We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."
Courtney Lee might wanna get his bags packed. Only four games in and players are making comments about the offense and more importantly the defense. I guess it isn't wrong for fans to be concerned since the players are talking so early.
The problem right now is always the same. Our PG play needs to improve. Having KP taking 4 shots and it's the middle of the 4th quarter is not acceptable
rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.
melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.
rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.
dk7th wrote:rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.
rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.
I'm not sure I agree about the usage rate in isolation. I suspect hardens rate was high
Issue was high use + ineffective. Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look
I'm optimistic team will adjust and improve
Chandler wrote:dk7th wrote:rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.
rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.
I'm not sure I agree about the usage rate in isolation. I suspect hardens rate was high
Issue was high use + ineffective. Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look
I'm optimistic team will adjust and improve
the difference was that harden's usage was lower than both melo and rose, at 26.6%, AND his assist rate was an incredible 72.5%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxs...
Chandler wrote:Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look
Yeah...that possession was ridiculous.
Could only watch part of the second half. This team is pulling itself in several directions. Older established vets with their more immediate concerns about a title, and a potential superstar (along with some rookies) who needs experience.
We also have an offense going in several directions, between the Triangle, and Hornacek's run and gun offense. Not enough time seems to be spent developing a half court game. Two competing offensive philosophies at work.
Haven't even gone into defense. I know there are some coaching reasons for KP's drop in D, but I think its more than that. Right after he got drafted by the Knicks, there were plenty of stories, and a few comments from current and former NBA players that KP would be just another soft Euro who could shoot. You could tell from the first time he set foot on the floor that KP heard all that stuff. He played D often like a man possessed last season, like someone trying to prove the doubters wrong. I dont see that this season. KP has to understand that he has to bring that fire on D every night.
Too many things going on offense, not enough on defense. At some point they are going to have to make KP the man if they want him to renew his contract. I know it feels like its a long way off, but if he is still playing Robin to the vets next season, dont be surprised if he doesnt come back. Cant wait until KP's contract year to make it his team.
knickscity wrote:Courtney Lee says the Knicks should "practice against more game-like situations" rather than practicing against the triangle offense. "We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot. I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get comfortable with that because that's what other teams are running."
Courtney Lee might wanna get his bags packed. Only four games in and players are making comments about the offense and more importantly the defense. I guess it isn't wrong for fans to be concerned since the players are talking so early.
Lee has a point tho. The way the Knicks have looked it's as if they don't have a solid approach to defending PnR! There are some capable defenders on this team and I'm sure they can be effective once they have Defensive chemistry and are locked in and connected on D.
Whatever the reason Jeff has to get it fixed. I believe he's going to listen to his players. That's the kind of coach he is.
Bottom line is we should have expected a 1-3 start. We could easily be 0-4. The way we lost is frustrating, but the losses against playoff teams are expected, especially early in the season. I want to see us play some teams we are supposed to beat. The schedule hasn't done us any favors. Everyone acts like the sky is falling when a 2-2 record would have been a miracle. 1-3 was expected.
The league had a year to scout KP..Now they are doing what MDA does to bigs..They pull him out to the three and shoot over him because he sags and is afraid players will blow by him...Cavs did it, Memphis did it, Detroit did it and Houston did it as well...It's affecting his confidence because he knows there are expectations and Hornacek is riding him in the Garden...This stage is big...He has to make adjustments..
The rotations are terrible right now.
I think you play Melo, Jennings and KP together, with holiday and Lance Thomas (if anyone has seen him). This will really help with the defense and allow us to showcase are two best scorers.
Rose, is very similar to Amare. Really all world athletic talent that got by on his quickness and superior athleticism. Never learned how to play the game. Head down to the rim every possession. Missing passes left and right.
holfresh wrote:The league had a year to scout KP..Now they are doing what MDA does to bigs..They pull him out to the three and shoot over him because he sags and is afraid players will blow by him...Cavs did it, Memphis did it, Detroit did it and Houston did it as well...It's affecting his confidence because he knows there are expectations and Hornacek is riding him in the Garden...This stage is big...He has to make adjustments..
This is totally accurate.
I stopped watching the Knicks game by the third inning of the World Series game. It was a good decision. The former was same ole trash, no-D Knicks getting smoked by Harden, the latter was one of the best game 7s I have seen. Really glad I watched it.
I agree with the above posters - we must give Horny a chance to figure out his team. Melo+Rose on high usage rates with low efficiency is a terrible "plan".
Truly a horrible game last night for KP. On defense he was abused all over. Looked tired or something on both sides of the ball. Had me wondering about his anemia. Very surprising. On offense, he is complicating things too much when he gets the ball inside. All his moves have 2-3 fakes, turn, ball fake, etc. Too slow! He absolutely needs to to learn to catch the ball inside, turn and quickly and put it up over the defender in one movement. He is 7'3", this should be a staple of his game.
I'm not talking about becoming a low post master, or only focusing on that. However he sorely needs this ability to round out his game. Too much jabbing, faking and juking. And he simply isn't all that in that area vs. competent defenders. However a quick turnaround over shorter players (the entire league) is unstoppable.
dk7th wrote:Chandler wrote:dk7th wrote:rose took 18 shots and scored 16 points with zero free throw attempts. his usage was a whopping 28.8. can't have usage that high and that may shot attempts from the point guard and expect to win games, let alone promote offensive cohesion.melo shot very well but, once again, was incredibly selfish: usage was 30.7 with one assist and five turnovers. he is reverting to bad melo.
rose and melo are a very bad tandem that are a bad influence on each other and it is hurting the knicks.
I'm not sure I agree about the usage rate in isolation. I suspect hardens rate was high
Issue was high use + ineffective. Melo dribbling into a triple team under the basket and praying for the refs to bail him out was not a good look
I'm optimistic team will adjust and improve
the difference was that harden's usage was lower than both melo and rose, at 26.6%, AND his assist rate was an incredible 72.5%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxs...
Wow surprised by that
the one thing not captured even in that assist rate is how many resulted in incredibly easy baskets -- wide open lay-ups etc. He's an incredible talent
nychamp wrote:Truly a horrible game last night for KP. On defense he was abused all over. Looked tired or something on both sides of the ball. Had me wondering about his anemia. Very surprising. On offense, he is complicating things too much when he gets the ball inside. All his moves have 2-3 fakes, turn, ball fake, etc. Too slow! He absolutely needs to to learn to catch the ball inside, turn and quickly and put it up over the defender in one movement. He is 7'3", this should be a staple of his game.
I'm not talking about becoming a low post master, or only focusing on that. However he sorely needs this ability to round out his game. Too much jabbing, faking and juking. And he simply isn't all that in that area vs. competent defenders. However a quick turnaround over shorter players (the entire league) is unstoppable.
We just need to be patient with him. He is still just starting his second season and will have ups and downs. His supporting cast isn't doing him any favors either, so hopefully that changes.
