Knicks · First 10 games: State of the Knicks (page 1)

The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Knicks will figure this out. I like what I see including Rose. Guy runs down rebounds; drives to paint creating opportunities by mere fact he's holding the ball. Jennings and Lee and Will and Cheese and Holiday all contributing

We need to tighten up the D and figure out the rotations and matchups (and keep Melo out of the decision process) and we'll all be very cheerful by Xmas (or your preferred holiday)

future is bright

Considering the schedule, 4-6 is actually pretty decent. We have played a lot of good teams.

Jeff needed time to get a feel for his roster. So many new guys makes it a challenge. Also having to find a balance between what Phil wants and what Jeff knows the team needs to do in order to win is a challenge. Jeff has made some good adjustments and his natural leanings are coming out.
He wanted better tempo, spacing, more 3's and PnR, but it's been an up and down performance so far. Ultimately I expect he'll push the team in the direction he wanted.

The team is getting better at featuring KP and I think they still have so much upside to get better as they improve their chemistry and figure out who they are as a team.

the next 10 arent much easier... I am fine with what I see. No trades yet.. lets see what these guys can do when playing well together. We have had tastes of it but nothing sustained yet. While 4-6 isnt anything good it has not been a disaster and there is plenty of good also.

Had we lost to the Nets or Mavs at home, I'd have a completely different opinion. That would have been a disaster aka mess.

4-6 considering SOS and Rose/Noah thus far being lacklustre (with the fact that they missed camp in mind)I think this is neither a good or bad start. It's about where many thought the Knicks would be: a 35 win type of ball club.

I hope we can play better and still have hope we can. For one, I don't think Hornachek or the players even yet know what the right strategy and lineups are. They are still figuring it out. About 30 games in we should have that ironed out. All I've wanted is this team to not dig too big a hole early like a 2-8 type of start. If we can win 9/20 and 14/30 which is close to .500 ball it will allow us to maybe get things right and maybe make a push later on.

Combining "Sasha" and "we'll be fine" in the same sentence is even too optimistic for a homer like me.

10 games. Let's tank. Give me 2nd unit Melo. No, give me 2nd unit KP. Or 2nd unit Rose. No, bench Noah. Yeah, Trade Rose. And fire Phil. Or bring back Fish. Shoot them all and let God sort it out.

UK, thy name is Ultimate knee-jerk.

Also consider we should have beat Detroit and Utah... win those games and the Knicks are 6-4

EnySpree wrote:Also consider we should have beat Detroit and Utah... win those games and the Knicks are 6-4

The development process for our bench is coming along and that's going to be a very important factor as the season progresses. The bench guys can play but need more PT to get more comfortable at the NBA level. Holiday and Willy in particular are making good progress. Kuz and Baker should make more progress if we can get them some meaningful minutes.

Not sure the Knicks are a "State" yet...more of a "territory" at this point in the season. Hopefully, they can reach statehood soon.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Also consider we should have beat Detroit and Utah... win those games and the Knicks are 6-4

The development process for our bench is coming along and that's going to be a very important factor as the season progresses. The bench guys can play but need more PT to get more comfortable at the NBA level. Holiday and Willy in particular are making good progress. Kuz and Baker should make more progress if we can get them some meaningful minutes.

Good points. A loss to either the Nets or Mavs though and I think this thread would have a different tone. The bench is definitely developing. Hornacek making tough line up changes to match up against opponents is a good sign.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Also consider we should have beat Detroit and Utah... win those games and the Knicks are 6-4

The development process for our bench is coming along and that's going to be a very important factor as the season progresses. The bench guys can play but need more PT to get more comfortable at the NBA level. Holiday and Willy in particular are making good progress. Kuz and Baker should make more progress if we can get them some meaningful minutes.

Good points. A loss to either the Nets or Mavs though and I think this thread would have a different tone. The bench is definitely developing. Hornacek making tough line up changes to match up against opponents is a good sign.

Yeah 2-8 would have everyone on the brink of destruction

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Also consider we should have beat Detroit and Utah... win those games and the Knicks are 6-4

The development process for our bench is coming along and that's going to be a very important factor as the season progresses. The bench guys can play but need more PT to get more comfortable at the NBA level. Holiday and Willy in particular are making good progress. Kuz and Baker should make more progress if we can get them some meaningful minutes.

Most of the good teams have been using a 9 man rotation. I think the Knicks really need to settle in on 4 bench guys Brandon Jennings is the only definite and his minutes have been pretty low considering. Holiday is starting to percolate. That leaves 2 more guys getting steady minutes. Lance and KOQ should have been those guys but nothing is easy with our Knicks.

EnySpree wrote:The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Rudy Gay? You really think that's going to change things. First off, Gay is off to the best start of his career and his contract is now a very reasonable $13.3 - $14.2 over the next two years. Why would they want Rose? Clear cap space for free agents they can't sign? Plus Gay is almost a total duplication of Melo.

We need to tighten our defense. Gay and Rubio do not help that glaring weakness.

jrodmc wrote:Combining "Sasha" and "we'll be fine" in the same sentence is even too optimistic for a homer like me.

10 games. Let's tank. Give me 2nd unit Melo. No, give me 2nd unit KP. Or 2nd unit Rose. No, bench Noah. Yeah, Trade Rose. And fire Phil. Or bring back Fish. Shoot them all and let God sort it out.

UK, thy name is Ultimate knee-jerk.

Agreed. We have one of the least patient fan bases in the NBA.

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Rudy Gay? You really think that's going to change things. First off, Gay is off to the best start of his career and his contract is now a very reasonable $13.3 - $14.2 over the next two years. Why would they want Rose? Clear cap space for free agents they can't sign? Plus Gay is almost a total duplication of Melo.

We need to tighten our defense. Gay and Rubio do not help that glaring weakness.

Melo would need a legit 3 to play next to him if he was going to slide to the 4 permanently... Rose is expiring but it is farfetched to think they would salary dump Gay with the hope of signing people. Sactown is terrible right now. I mentioned those two players because they jumped out at me as players that could be had. The idea of trading Rose is anot important chip if they chose to use it or not.

If nothing else, I'd just love to see them play at a quicker pace. I really think it would help us TREMDOUSLY. Compared to other teams, it's just so laborious watching the Knicks play most of the time. You watch other teams play on ESPN and TNT, they're getting the ball up quickly, one or two passes, open shot and someone's letting it fly with a good 10-15 secs. left on the clock! I'd love to see how we'd look playing like that. WE CAN PLAY LIKE THAT! It's not like we don't have the personnel. WE DO!! And we have a coach who'd prefer to play like that. So WTF's the problem!! Instead, our players always seem to be confused, scurrying around chewing up clock running to their spots on the floor, time is lost because guys are making mistakes getting to their spots, then more than half the time the ball just goes to Melo anyway, he holds it for an eternity trying to create a shot for himself while his teammates just stand there in their designated spots on the floor (notice there's never any cutting or any player movement whatsoever once Melo gets the ball in an ISO situation. Why is that?? Because guys don't want to get in his way?? Come on.. And why is none of this shit ever addressed or corrected? Because no one ever wants to approach Melo and say, 'hey, I know you love your ISO ball, but it's hurting the team--we're gonna try something different.'? Well Melo might finally have to be told. It might be that simple. But then flip side--he's successful with it, so do we completely abandon it? They have to work to get a happy medium out there. Of Melo's 20 shots he takes in a game give or take, how 'bout we see ISO ball only 5 times, not 15+ times?

And Courtney Lee man -- I dunno what it is, if it's him not being aggressive enough or the system or what, but he needs to be more aggressive out there. There's quite a few issues going on out there but if nothing else, give me those two things the rest of the way: (1) play ball at a quicker pace (attack before teams have a chance to set up their defense. We have the personnel to play quicker, most of our guys want to play a quicker style--even Melo welcomed it, and so does the coach--this shouldn't even be an issue) and (2) a more aggressive/engaged Courtney Lee (and Derrick Rose too while we're at it). We just have so many ways to attack the shit out of teams and we're just not doing it. Not playing up to our collective capabilities--not even close.

Finestrg wrote:If nothing else, I'd just love to see them play at a quicker pace. I really think it would help us TREMDOUSLY. Compared to other teams, it's just so laborious watching the Knicks play most of the time. You watch other teams play on ESPN and TNT, they're getting the ball up quickly, one or two passes, open shot and someone's letting it fly with a good 10-15 secs. left on the clock! I'd love to see how we'd look playing like that. WE CAN PLAY LIKE THAT! It's not like we don't have the personnel. WE DO!! And we have a coach who'd prefer to play like that. So WTF's the problem!! Instead, our players always seem to be confused, scurrying around chewing up clock running to their spots on the floor, time is lost because guys are making mistakes getting to their spots, then more than half the time the ball just goes to Melo anyway, he holds it for an eternity trying to create a shot for himself while his teammates just stand there in their designated spots on the floor (notice there's never any cutting or any player movement whatsoever once Melo gets the ball in an ISO situation. Why is that?? Because guys don't want to get in his way?? Come on.. And why is none of this shit ever addressed or corrected? Because no one ever wants to approach Melo and say, 'hey, I know you love your ISO ball, but it's hurting the team--we're gonna try something different.'? Well Melo might finally have to be told. It might be that simple. But then flip side--he's successful with it, so do we completely abandon it? They have to work to get a happy medium out there. Of Melo's 20 shots he takes in a game give or take, how 'bout we see ISO ball only 5 times, not 15+ times?

And Courtney Lee man -- I dunno what it is, if it's him not being aggressive enough or the system or what, but he needs to be more aggressive out there. There's quite a few issues going on out there but if nothing else, give me those two things the rest of the way: (1) play ball at a quicker pace (attack before teams have a chance to set up their defense. We have the personnel to play quicker, most of our guys want to play a quicker style--even Melo welcomed it, and so does the coach--this shouldn't even be an issue) and (2) a more aggressive/engaged Courtney Lee (and Derrick Rose too while we're at it). We just have so many ways to attack the shit out of teams and we're just not doing it. Not playing up to our collective capabilities--not even close.

SSOL? Didn't we live through that already? I guess Dantoni was a good coach? Like Derek Fisher was a good coach?

Why don't the 4 other players move and do SOMETHING to create an open look for each other AWAY FROM THE BALL? Do you really think Melo sits in practices and timeouts during games going "Yeah fellas, once I get the rock, please PLEASE PLEASE don't move, just stand perfectly still, because I just LOVE reliving my time playing with Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, etc, etc..." Is Horny saying this? "THAT'S IT! STAND STILL! DON'T DISTRACT MY OVERPAID OVERSIZED SLOW AS SHIT DOUCHE 3!!!"

EnySpree wrote:

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Rudy Gay? You really think that's going to change things. First off, Gay is off to the best start of his career and his contract is now a very reasonable $13.3 - $14.2 over the next two years. Why would they want Rose? Clear cap space for free agents they can't sign? Plus Gay is almost a total duplication of Melo.

We need to tighten our defense. Gay and Rubio do not help that glaring weakness.

Melo would need a legit 3 to play next to him if he was going to slide to the 4 permanently... Rose is expiring but it is farfetched to think they would salary dump Gay with the hope of signing people. Sactown is terrible right now. I mentioned those two players because they jumped out at me as players that could be had. The idea of trading Rose is anot important chip if they chose to use it or not.

We would need a defensive minded 3, not another volume shooter. Sacramento is terrible, so they should trade their second best player for a partial season rental (Rose) to create cap space even though nobody wants to play in Sacramento as well as further alienate their best player (Cousins)?

We need to just sit back, be patient and let this thing play out.

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Rudy Gay? You really think that's going to change things. First off, Gay is off to the best start of his career and his contract is now a very reasonable $13.3 - $14.2 over the next two years. Why would they want Rose? Clear cap space for free agents they can't sign? Plus Gay is almost a total duplication of Melo.

We need to tighten our defense. Gay and Rubio do not help that glaring weakness.

Melo would need a legit 3 to play next to him if he was going to slide to the 4 permanently... Rose is expiring but it is farfetched to think they would salary dump Gay with the hope of signing people. Sactown is terrible right now. I mentioned those two players because they jumped out at me as players that could be had. The idea of trading Rose is anot important chip if they chose to use it or not.

We would need a defensive minded 3, not another volume shooter. Sacramento is terrible, so they should trade their second best player for a partial season rental (Rose) to create cap space even though nobody wants to play in Sacramento as well as further alienate their best player (Cousins)?

We need to just sit back, be patient and let this thing play out.

A legit 3 none the less. I agree is still early though. Just fun to talk about

EnySpree wrote:

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The Knicks with new players, new coaches are trying to figure out how they want to play.

So far the Knicks have had 6 bad loses... yet they also have 4 great wins. When they lose they look awful but we blew out every team that we beat.

Who are we? What are we looking at?

I'm a trade guy I just want to say that we have the best trade chip in basketball in Derrick Rose. That's a 25 mill salary dump. Right now he's not really playing well. Brandon Jennings could assume the starting role with Sasha backing him up and we'd be fine.

Are we all settled in on Melo being the 4 with Kristaps the 5? If so we would need to upgrade the 3 spot big time. Right of the top of my head Rudy Gay and fillers for Rose would make alot of sense especially if Sactown is looking to reload again. Or maybe a Ricky Rubio and fillers for Rose.

We need to see what we have in Kuz... Holiday actually might be settling into a role now.

It's still very early with 72 games left. What do you think?

Rudy Gay? You really think that's going to change things. First off, Gay is off to the best start of his career and his contract is now a very reasonable $13.3 - $14.2 over the next two years. Why would they want Rose? Clear cap space for free agents they can't sign? Plus Gay is almost a total duplication of Melo.

We need to tighten our defense. Gay and Rubio do not help that glaring weakness.

Melo would need a legit 3 to play next to him if he was going to slide to the 4 permanently... Rose is expiring but it is farfetched to think they would salary dump Gay with the hope of signing people. Sactown is terrible right now. I mentioned those two players because they jumped out at me as players that could be had. The idea of trading Rose is anot important chip if they chose to use it or not.

I think at this point we should continue to evaluate what this team looks like with Holiday at the 3 for stretches and not make any major trades this season. This summer, we can target a forward that compliments Melo and Porzingis to move them to the 4 and 5 more permanently. Holiday is a great trial piece to see how it works. And Lance when he is healthy. Sac does have Casspi, who would actually fit nicely here. He is a combo forward who can shoot and defend. Maybe he can be had for cheap. But i do think we should stay patient and wait until next summer to make the necessary changes to the roster.