Knicks · Do not dress Melo (page 2)

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

I absolutely love statements like this. Reminds me of the IronWillGiroud guy who used to post about how he would own most NBA players because of how many hack squats he could do and because he slapped the backboard after each layup he made.

Anyone can score 20 points in an NBA game, given 30 shots! Anybody!

Thats a tip, boys and girls! Doesn't matter if you're a future HOF'er or if you're just some douche posting on the internet! You too can score 20 a night if you can just be allowed to be an iso ball hog!

Maybe we can start competing threads on whether Melo should bench himself or trade himself. See which one gets more posts!

jrodmc wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

I absolutely love statements like this. Reminds me of the IronWillGiroud guy who used to post about how he would own most NBA players because of how many hack squats he could do and because he slapped the backboard after each layup he made.

Anyone can score 20 points in an NBA game, given 30 shots! Anybody!

Thats a tip, boys and girls! Doesn't matter if you're a future HOF'er or if you're just some douche posting on the internet! You too can score 20 a night if you can just be allowed to be an iso ball hog!

Maybe we can start competing threads on whether Melo should bench himself or trade himself. See which one gets more posts!

Especially when Melo only averages 19.5 FG attempts in the 2nd game of a back to back.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

Am I the only one here seeing that Melo does not and never had what it takes to win? Please! Let him do his act of image making and smiling after bad mistakes whenever he's fresh and before a home crowd, he will still be able to come up big once in a while... do not make away games hinge on the princess :-) Those are winnable games, by the way...just not on a 5/30 shooting :-))

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

So Saturday night we would've been better off if Melo didn't play? Or in the Boston game when KP was -24 we would've been better if he didn't play?

Saturday if we didn't play Melo (-16), Lee (-15), Noah (-12), Rose (-9) and Willy (-8) and just played KP (0), O'Quinn (+13), Kuz (+2), Holiday (+11), Jennings (+2), and Vujacic (+7) you think we probably win?

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Anybody can chuck and dominate the ball on the way to producing stats ---- Melo is brutal on back to backs because he brings nothing but chucking shots.

He won't be benched but I like the thought.

Folks need to remember that in every NBA game each team scores in the vicinity of 100 points so stats are produced by great/good/poor/crap teams --- stats are for losers.

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

i dont agree with the OP at all BUT why do you bring KP into this? I think KP has proven he is big down the stretch in games

Only to show that hypocrisy when it comes to Melo. Statistically KP is actually worse in back to back situation but he suggests that Melo sits based on performance.

And I agree regarding KP. To me the answer isn't sitting Melo but him deferring more to KP and Rose in games when he's off regardless of whether its a back to back. Overreacting to yesterday is way too simplified.

Good luck getting Melo to defer to anyone --- the guy is a tool -- he has proved it over and over again ---- he only knows Melo/me -- does not entertain team concepts unless he is placed at the top of the team as some type of hero/savior --- he is a tool who doesn't get it --- end of story/period.

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Nope -- his 7/25 shooting performance was a key to us being in the game. Is that what you were thinking?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

But...but Melo is our savior.

teamsport72 wrote:Am I the only one here seeing that Melo does not and never had what it takes to win? Please! Let him do his act of image making and smiling after bad mistakes whenever he's fresh and before a home crowd, he will still be able to come up big once in a while... do not make away games hinge on the princess :-) Those are winnable games, by the way...just not on a 5/30 shooting :-))

You are NOT alone my friend -- it's very obvious this cat doesn't have what it takes.

He only sees himself as someone special -- someone deserving special treatment, special privilege. Yes he can play in a team concept but only when he chooses and/or feels like it and god forbid don't anyone say anything negative about him or he will go into tank mode and start trying to get Horny fired.

Melo is like the little kid from the old Twilight Zone movie --- the kid who would send anyone to the corn field if they said anything he didn't like or if he didn't get his way. He will play how he likes, when he wants and with that no-trade clause there is nothing any Knick fan or Phil can do about it -- thanks Phil for that one.

LivingLegend wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Nope -- his 7/25 shooting performance was a key to us being in the game. Is that what you were thinking?

Yeah, because Melo was the only guy on the court. The 12 other guys who suited up played brilliantly but if it weren't for that darn Melo...

Reminds me of the Ewing hate back in the day. Yeah, they'd be better off without Ewing. If it weren't for Ewing the Knicks could run more. Yada, yada, yada.

It is on the coach and president. And that's why Melo is in NY not in SA or other great team.
Pop will just sit his ass if he will be breaking the team play and if Melo will rebel will send him kick rocks.
But GM like Pop will never even think about getting this kind of players on the team.
Melo is a symbol of mediocrity. Mediocre team is the team he will look great on. And he does. And he did it for 14 years.
One of the smartest individuals in NBA business. Heats off...

LivingLegend wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Am I the only one here seeing that Melo does not and never had what it takes to win? Please! Let him do his act of image making and smiling after bad mistakes whenever he's fresh and before a home crowd, he will still be able to come up big once in a while... do not make away games hinge on the princess :-) Those are winnable games, by the way...just not on a 5/30 shooting :-))

You are NOT alone my friend -- it's very obvious this cat doesn't have what it takes.

He only sees himself as someone special -- someone deserving special treatment, special privilege. Yes he can play in a team concept but only when he chooses and/or feels like it and god forbid don't anyone say anything negative about him or he will go into tank mode and start trying to get Horny fired.

Melo is like the little kid from the old Twilight Zone movie --- the kid who would send anyone to the corn field if they said anything he didn't like or if he didn't get his way. He will play how he likes, when he wants and with that no-trade clause there is nothing any Knick fan or Phil can do about it -- thanks Phil for that one.

The tool of wisdom has spoken.

Yes Melo had a terrible game. Yes he should have contributed with more assists. But if you use that loss to decide who should sit on back to backs, (Thread topic) then you have to sit Rose, 30% shooting, Noah, 0 points. KP, 0 assists 28% shooting in first half and couldn't defend their stretch players. Holiday, 2 for 7. Guess the only guys that play are Lee and Jennings plus bench. I'm sure we win. Bottom line is the whole team played like shit. Except for Jennings. The whole team defended like shit in 1st quarter. But Melo's bad night makes him the most likely scapegoat and feeds the Melo haters for another day.

If you are talking about the end of the year I can see giving him a rest in certain situations, especially if the second night's team is not a superior one.

This early in the season, I'd probably let him play both games unless he had a slight injury in the first one.

If it looks like we're a safe bet to make the playoffs, wouldn't be a bad idea closer to the end of the regular season. Same goes for Noah if he looks like he needs the rest. Too soon to try now IMO.

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

So Saturday night we would've been better off if Melo didn't play? Or in the Boston game when KP was -24 we would've been better if he didn't play?

Saturday if we didn't play Melo (-16), Lee (-15), Noah (-12), Rose (-9) and Willy (-8) and just played KP (0), O'Quinn (+13), Kuz (+2), Holiday (+11), Jennings (+2), and Vujacic (+7) you think we probably win?

I cited +/- AND shooting as two examples of stats suggesting the idea he hurt the team was not far-fetched. You have A) ignored that I mentioned the shooting stats and B) interpreted my saying "it's not far-fetched that he might have done more harm than good" as my saying "I know he did more harm than good and know the team would have won if he sat out." I'm not sure if you're intentionally being difficult or you're just really having trouble understanding what I'm saying.

And in the case of those +/- stats, most of those players played with Melo on the court. So of course they had bad +/- #s. When the guy you're playing with scores 18 points on 25 shots, of course the team is going to do bad while you're on the court with him. It's more revealing when you have *the lowest* plus/minus on the team. It's harder to argue that your bad +/- #s trace to another player in that case. Nevertheless, that is just one of many stats to look at. I don't much from the stats to indicate Melo had a positive impact on that game.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Welpee wrote:

teamsport72 wrote:Do not dress Melo for second games of back-to-backs!
Especially, if on the road. Net negative value.
Make it look as a sign of respect for the veteran, like as if preserving his legs for the playoff run!
In his absence others can be expected to willingly put in that little extra effort which decides games like the one last night.
Will see if Hornacek figures this out as the season goes.

Yeah, because the 22 pts, 6 reb, and 2.5 assists he averages in the 2nd of back to back games is so easy to replace. Meanwhile KP averages only 16 ppg in the 2nd of back to backs and nobody says a word.

Yeah PPG is a great way to measure overall offensive production. I could get 22 in an NBA game if they let me shoot every single time down the court. That is Melo's philosophy as well. I'm going to get 20 points even if it takes 30 shots to get there. He has more talent around him now, he has no business shooting 25 times when he is that off. It was a brutal performance last night. He cost them the game. This is why the Knicks will always float around .500, Carmelo will have good nights and they win, followed by a ghastly performance giving them little to no chance of winning.

Melo was the reason we lost last night? smh!

Why is it so hard to believe that Melo did more harm than good in this game? He shot 7 of 25. The team was -16 with him on the court and +11 with him off the court (the worst plus minus on the team).

Let me post this disclaimer first: I am not saying anything negative about KP, just using him as an example of the selective use of advance stats:

KP is -18.3 in +/- in the 2nd game of back to back games. So does that mean he's hurting us?

It *might* mean he has hurt the team in 2nd games of back to backs. All I wrote was that the idea that Melo had hurt the team in that one game wasn't far-fetched. I'm sure Michael Jordan had games where he hurt his team too.

So Saturday night we would've been better off if Melo didn't play? Or in the Boston game when KP was -24 we would've been better if he didn't play?

Saturday if we didn't play Melo (-16), Lee (-15), Noah (-12), Rose (-9) and Willy (-8) and just played KP (0), O'Quinn (+13), Kuz (+2), Holiday (+11), Jennings (+2), and Vujacic (+7) you think we probably win?

I cited +/- AND shooting as two examples of stats suggesting the idea he hurt the team was not far-fetched. You have A) ignored that I mentioned the shooting stats and B) interpreted my saying "it's not far-fetched that he might have done more harm than good" as my saying "I know he did more harm than good and know the team would have won if he sat out." I'm not sure if you're intentionally being difficult or you're just really having trouble understanding what I'm saying.

And in the case of those +/- stats, most of those players played with Melo on the court. So of course they had bad +/- #s. It's more revealing when you have *the lowest* plus/minus on the team. Nevertheless, that is just one of many stats to look at. I don't see any stats that would indicate Melo had a positive impact on that game.

My problem is we only go through these type of exercises to slam Melo and most only do it to validate their predetermined hate for the guy. Melo had a bad game, nobody is disputing that. He was among a group of many players who didn't play well. But do you really believe we're better not having our best player on the floor even if he's not having a good game?

+/- is a very tricky stat to try and use to draw conclusions with. I would bet that everyone who watched the game would praise Jennings for how he played (myself included). He was only a +2. Yet what exactly did Vujacic do for +7?

Did Melo play poorly? Yes. Was he a major contributor to the loss? Of course. Was he solely responsible for the loss (not saying that you said this, but others have insinuated it)? No. Would we have won the game if he sat? Impossible to determine, but (though admittedly this is an entirely different team this year) we were 0-10 last season when he didn't play.