Andrew wrote:holfresh wrote:Andrew wrote:If Noah doesn't bring D and rebounding each game he can't be on the floor
Knicks were clearly out muscled..Who would you put in?
Maybe billy, maybe go small and force them to match. Because of Noah lack of offensive game if he doesn't bring positives on defense is a double whammy
Maybe Willy but you can't go small..Kantor abused us on the inside..
Knicks67 wrote:Why aren't we sustaining a lead? We always get ourselves back in it then we allow some scrub to get an open three and we are done, momentum out the window. Roberson a 25% three point shooter hit one on us. You put a hand in his face anywhere near him and he is bricking it. Really frustrating stuff.
we would have sustained the lead if we didn't go iso melo it was the death of our energy on both ends of the floor. players need to be involved Melo put his teammates to sleep with his low percentage ISO MELO
Melo has 18 points on 24 scoring possessions or attempts/shots at the basket (including FT's). 4-18 from the field. Pathetic for a franchise player. Unacceptable. The Knicks go to 8-9 and the haters will say it's the Triangle and Phil Jackson, and yet if Melo plays like a star is supposed to at this level, the Knicks are 2 or 3 wins better.
Rose and KP had good games, KP struggled with the physicality of the game. This is a game KP has to learn from. You have to deal with physical teams. Sometimes calls don't go your way. He dealt with it well.
Noah, I just don't know. Yeah I like the passes, I like the hustle. In the end I see a player who makes us too Melo centric. When your 5 man can not score, he can not catch and finish, what is likely to happen is your top creators will have more pressure to score. Sure, if it's Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant they can thrive with a player like Noah. Carmelo Anthony does not. Noah is bringing out the worst in this lineup.
This team has to get it's act together and Hornachek has to make some changes. The starting lineup is better with O'Quinn. O'Quinn is a scoring threat and does not pass up open looks. The Knicks need to let this season be Hernangomez's development season. As good as Noah can be defensively in certain situations, right now I see him as a 3rd string Center. If we are going to lose and be a team that struggles to stay above .500, I'd like to see us develop the players who will be here next season and are young in O'Quinn (25) Hernangomez (22) and Kuz (27).
Good scoring game from Rose. Just extremely upset with Melo's game. To be playing like this when all you have said is about your desire to bring a championship to NY. You have Rose and KP. Hornachek has minimized the Triangle and opened up the game. Yet here we are in year 5 of Melo era and it's the same stuff. D'Antoni, Woodson, Fisher, Rambis and now Hornachek. A spade is a spade. He will not win or possibly even get out of the 1st round so long as he's a team's best player. Maybe 4 years ago in his prime. He's slowly exited and yet still playing like he is the best player on the team. He isn't. In terms of impact, Melo may be our 3rd most valuable player right now. As great as his isolation moves and jumper is, when he isn't scoring is, he's pretty much a liability.
Well , we don't seem to be running plays. That was the most iso I have seen in my life. No triangle, no fast breaks, no PnR. Ugly basketball. Prettiest play was when Rose and Melo both touched the ball and gave it to Porzingis for the slam. Oh and Noah should learn to shoot free throws underhanded, Rick Barry style
N'Dour and KOaq are unacceptable..KUZ isn't ready for games like this..Second half of the year, this team will be worn out..
tonight it was melo, kp, and rose, against westbrook and the thunder.
Those 3 played selfish trying to keep up with the westbrooks. YOU DONT WIN GAMES ON TALENT ALONE, AND THATS WHAT WE TRIED TO DO TONIGHT
SocraticBallin22 wrote:Who else agrees that when we're trailing in the 4th, we should have Jennings on the court? He is another ball handler who can penetrate and break down a defense and is the best passer on the team. It just give us more options. Understand you need Lee on Westbrook defensively, but sometimes you need to change things up.
With Rose or without Rose, I thought Jennings could have helped. Hornacek tightened up the rotation which he usually doesnt do. Im guessing tnat Jeff knew that Westbrook and Rose practice together, and wanted to him a chance to go head to head against his buddy. Agree that Hornacek left Jennings on the bench too long. This game might have been more about keeping vets like Noah and Rose happy.
All bad play aside Knicks had a chance against Westbrook who is awesome and his supporting cast play well. Down 2 with free throws to tie
Rebounds Westbrook 18, Kantor 10, Adams 10...No Knick in double figures..
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo has 18 points on 24 scoring possessions or attempts/shots at the basket (including FT's). 4-18 from the field. Pathetic for a franchise player. Unacceptable. The Knicks go to 8-9 and the haters will say it's the Triangle and Phil Jackson, and yet if Melo plays like a star is supposed to at this level, the Knicks are 2 or 3 wins better. Rose and KP had good games, KP struggled with the physicality of the game. This is a game KP has to learn from. You have to deal with physical teams. Sometimes calls don't go your way. He dealt with it well.
Noah, I just don't know. Yeah I like the passes, I like the hustle. In the end I see a player who makes us too Melo centric. When your 5 man can not score, he can not catch and finish, what is likely to happen is your top creators will have more pressure to score. Sure, if it's Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant they can thrive with a player like Noah. Carmelo Anthony does not. Noah is bringing out the worst in this lineup.
This team has to get it's act together and Hornachek has to make some changes. The starting lineup is better with O'Quinn. O'Quinn is a scoring threat and does not pass up open looks. The Knicks need to let this season be Hernangomez's development season. As good as Noah can be defensively in certain situations, right now I see him as a 3rd string Center. If we are going to lose and be a team that struggles to stay above .500, I'd like to see us develop the players who will be here next season and are young in O'Quinn (25) Hernangomez (22) and Kuz (27).
Good scoring game from Rose. Just extremely upset with Melo's game. To be playing like this when all you have said is about your desire to bring a championship to NY. You have Rose and KP. Hornachek has minimized the Triangle and opened up the game. Yet here we are in year 5 of Melo era and it's the same stuff. D'Antoni, Woodson, Fisher, Rambis and now Hornachek. A spade is a spade. He will not win or possibly even get out of the 1st round so long as he's a team's best player. Maybe 4 years ago in his prime. He's slowly exited and yet still playing like he is the best player on the team. He isn't. In terms of impact, Melo may be our 3rd most valuable player right now. As great as his isolation moves and jumper is, when he isn't scoring is, he's pretty much a liability.
Great analysis.
1) Agree that KOQ starting center has worked well for us--especially offensively--bc he is a threat to score as opposed to Noah who has become an offensive liability. Also, a byproduct of Noah being in the game is MELO ISO ball because it's like playing 4 on 5. Great point. I said earlier when Melo is cold, he should sit bc he doesn't help the team in any other way.
2) KP got pushed around pretty bad tonight. This will be the blueprint for teams going forward against him. OKC has a very strong and physical frontline and they put it on him pretty good. He did respond well, but this will be the next step in his development.
3) Rose is looking like a #1 scoring option again, which is a positive sign.
holfresh wrote:Reb 53-40..
...Knicks get out-rebounded, allow the the thunder to score 112 pts and shoot 50% from the field and people are on here screaming about Iso ball...Yes Melo had an off game, but our defense has been a let-down this year.
holfresh wrote:Rebounds Westbrook 18, Kantor 10, Adams 10...No Knick in double figures..
That's what you call getting DESTROYED.
GustavBahler wrote:SocraticBallin22 wrote:Who else agrees that when we're trailing in the 4th, we should have Jennings on the court? He is another ball handler who can penetrate and break down a defense and is the best passer on the team. It just give us more options. Understand you need Lee on Westbrook defensively, but sometimes you need to change things up.
With Rose or without Rose, I thought Jennings could have helped. Hornacek tightened up the rotation which he usually doesnt do. Im guessing tnat Jeff knew that Westbrook and Rose practice together, and wanted to him a chance to go head to head against his buddy. Agree that Hornacek left Jennings on the bench too long. This game might have been more about keeping vets like Noah and Rose happy.
Yeah...I'm a proponent of having your 5 best players on the court at the end of games--kind of like when JR Smith came off the bench but he closed games for us. Jenning is one of our top 5 most talented players. IMO, he needs more minutes and crunch time minutes. He's another threat on the court when he's out there and creates for others.
GustavBahler wrote:SocraticBallin22 wrote:Who else agrees that when we're trailing in the 4th, we should have Jennings on the court? He is another ball handler who can penetrate and break down a defense and is the best passer on the team. It just give us more options. Understand you need Lee on Westbrook defensively, but sometimes you need to change things up.
With Rose or without Rose, I thought Jennings could have helped. Hornacek tightened up the rotation which he usually doesnt do. Im guessing tnat Jeff knew that Westbrook and Rose practice together, and wanted to him a chance to go head to head against his buddy. Agree that Hornacek left Jennings on the bench too long. This game might have been more about keeping vets like Noah and Rose happy.
This was a game we should have won if we had more chemistry, and more solid rotation
2nd night a guard pulls down 17+ rebounds against us..thats nuts
Was at the game again tonight, and again, this time despite losing I left the Garden as optimistic and having enjoyed the game and the Knicks more than I have in years. Things didn't go well in a number of respects but the atmosphere is back and we have some genuinely top class NBA players. With a better shooting night from Melo, some better rebounding and a few calls we should have got we would have won that game. This season is going to be fun and we will give someone a tough time in the play offs.
Having witnessed Westbrook in the flesh I would give anything for him to sign for us next summer. With him and KP we would immediately contend in the East and he would undoubtably become a New York sports icon. He's ridiculously good and at times completely unplayable. I mean he was an assist away from a triple double in the FIRST HALF!!! Just a total beast. Please Phil, you know it makes sense. A complete franchise game changer.
Everyone raving about the play of the Knick bench this year..What am I missing?
Uptown wrote:holfresh wrote:Reb 53-40..
...Knicks get out-rebounded, allow the the thunder to score 112 pts and shoot 50% from the field and people are on here screaming about Iso ball...Yes Melo had an off game, but our defense has been a let-down this year.
I agree. I've said this before, the most disappointing aspect of Lee's game so far has been his defense. I thought we were getting a stopper who could slow down players like Westbrook. I really haven't seen it yet this season.
But make no mistake, Melo had second straight bad game. But the team defense was very soft.
magicTs wrote:Was at the game again tonight, and again, this time despite losing I left the Garden as optimistic and having enjoyed the game and the Knicks more than I have in years. Things didn't go well in a number of respects but the atmosphere is back and we have some genuinely top class NBA players. With a better shooting night from Melo, some better rebounding and a few calls we should have got we would have won that game. This season is going to be fun and we will give someone a tough time in the play offs. Having witnessed Westbrook in the flesh I would give anything for him to sign for us next summer. With him and KP we would immediately contend in the East and he would undoubtably become a New York sports icon. He's ridiculously good and at times completely unplayable. I mean he was an assist away from a triple double in the FIRST HALF!!! Just a total beast. Please Phil, you know it makes sense. A complete franchise game changer.
Unfortunately he's not a free agent next season.
holfresh wrote:Everyone raving about the play of the Knick bench this year..What am I missing?
They have been playing well, but rooks, untested players, went up against a front line that has championship experience, still in their primes. It happens. Part of the learning process.
Rose is definitely looking more and more like his old self. We should run more Rose/KP screen rolls. We don't run enough of them. Rose is an elite driver and can get to the basket and score. KP can shoot extremely well. The defense does not know what to do there, if they follow Rose it's giving KP open looks. If the big stays back with KP, Rose has an easy blow by drive. This should be our bread and butter play, and we don't milk it. Instead we go to Melo Isolations. We should also go to Rose/Melo pick and roll or 2 man games. Same idea as with KP. You have Melo set the pick.
Whenever we have run those 2 man games it has looked fantastic. Don't know why Jeff lets Melo isolation so much. He wasn't an isolation coach in Phenoix. He was about pace, point guards creating and bigs spacing the floor. I hate to say this, but I can't see Jeff truly run his offense until Noah and Melo play more fitting roles. Melo has to play more of an off the ball spot up shooting game with some flurries of iso play. Noah has to play exclusively without Melo to not instigate the isolation play from the team. Once the opposing team sees Noah is not threat they simply let Noah's man roam more often and play other guys tight. We're clearly seeing why Chicago is doing better without Noah this year. Don't get me wrong, Noah has a role on a good team. Just not as a starter or core player. He's an energizer off the bench. You have to switch him and O'Quinn or Hernangomez.
