Knicks · Knicks vs Lakers 12/11: Injured opposing players: BE HEALED! (page 8)
crzymdups wrote:It's fun to watch all the Rose and Jennings doubters become very very quiet lately.
Really glad to see DRose looking so healthy tonight. His floater is a dangerous weapon.Really glad to see KP shooting so well and playing good D tonight - at least inside, he lost Deng a few times outside for 3s. Deng hit 5 threes tonight, at least 3 of those came when KP was late to close out on him.
Rest of the team was sloppy on D, but I'll certainly take the win.
THIS
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per some article...last time was 1983.
holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
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GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
He is looking to pass and no one is saying he shouldn't pass...Last night he had the hot hand...Rose and Melo's presence will create wide open opportunities for KP and others as you have seen...We don't need another PG to take the ball out of Melo and Rose's hand...They can create for others...KP will get 15-20 looks per night as will Melo and Rose...That's a good dynamic offense...I can't imagine KP needing more than 20 shots per night, Phil said that isn't basketball...
GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
Before the season there were guys who poo pooed my pointing out that Rose was an elite penetrator and that this would positively impact the team despite his lack of assists. What is important is that he's a constant threat and teams simply can't ignore him!!!
Rose isn't a pure PG BUT the team is better with him. My hope is that he can eventually increase his playmaking for others. He's done it in the past so IMO he can do it again. Teams will adjust and he's gonna need to adjust as well. For now teams are scared of Melo and KP so they leave Rose open to attack. So he's taking what they're giving him.
holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
He is looking to pass and no one is saying he shouldn't pass...Last night he had the hot hand...Rose and Melo's presence will create wide open opportunities for KP and others as you have seen...We don't need another PG to take the ball out of Melo and Rose's hand...They can create for others...KP will get 15-20 looks per night as will Melo and Rose...That's a good dynamic offense...I can't imagine KP needing more than 20 shots per night, Phil said that isn't basketball...
Wouldnt mind a PG who took the ball out of Rose's hands if he can also find the rim. Like Melo, Rose needs to touch the ball to be effective, but just how much Id like to see left to someone else. Most nights he would out score his counterpart at the 2. His numbers so far show that he isn't looking to pass much in his drives, this predates this game where as reub pointed out, Rose mostly out ran the other team.
The numbers are low enough to be concerned about what this would mean in the playoffs, when defenses clamp down, and the game slows up. You're right its been a long time since we had all these 30pt capable scorers, but one of them was a pass first PG who put them all on the same page.
GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
He is looking to pass and no one is saying he shouldn't pass...Last night he had the hot hand...Rose and Melo's presence will create wide open opportunities for KP and others as you have seen...We don't need another PG to take the ball out of Melo and Rose's hand...They can create for others...KP will get 15-20 looks per night as will Melo and Rose...That's a good dynamic offense...I can't imagine KP needing more than 20 shots per night, Phil said that isn't basketball...
Wouldnt mind a PG who took the ball out of Rose's hands if he can also find the rim. Like Melo, Rose needs to touch the ball to be effective, but just how much Id like to see left to someone else. Most nights he would out score his counterpart at the 2. His numbers so far show that he isn't looking to pass much in his drives, this predates this game where as reub pointed out, Rose mostly out ran the other team.
The numbers are low enough to be concerned about what this would mean in the playoffs, when defenses clamp down, and the game slows up. You're right its been a long time since we had all these 30pt capable scorers, but one of them was a pass first PG who put them all on the same page.
So why would you want to take the ball out of their hands?? To make them less effective??..I think you have to always run the offense thru your best player/players...We gonna have to disagree on this one...
I do think defense is our biggest issue...
holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
He is looking to pass and no one is saying he shouldn't pass...Last night he had the hot hand...Rose and Melo's presence will create wide open opportunities for KP and others as you have seen...We don't need another PG to take the ball out of Melo and Rose's hand...They can create for others...KP will get 15-20 looks per night as will Melo and Rose...That's a good dynamic offense...I can't imagine KP needing more than 20 shots per night, Phil said that isn't basketball...
Wouldnt mind a PG who took the ball out of Rose's hands if he can also find the rim. Like Melo, Rose needs to touch the ball to be effective, but just how much Id like to see left to someone else. Most nights he would out score his counterpart at the 2. His numbers so far show that he isn't looking to pass much in his drives, this predates this game where as reub pointed out, Rose mostly out ran the other team.
The numbers are low enough to be concerned about what this would mean in the playoffs, when defenses clamp down, and the game slows up. You're right its been a long time since we had all these 30pt capable scorers, but one of them was a pass first PG who put them all on the same page.
So why would you want to take the ball out of their hands?? To make them less effective??..I think you have to always run the offense thru your best player/players...We gonna have to disagree on this one...
I do think defense is our biggest issue...
So does Melo, but I dont want him running the point, haha. I dont know if it would work full time, but I liked what I saw at times when Rose was at the 2, and Jennings was on point.
GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:holfresh wrote:GustavBahler wrote:When you see Rose put on a scoring display like that, its hard not to want to see him brought back. Its also not hard for me to want to see him moved to shooting guard if Phil did. Try to bring in another PG if Jennings isnt up for the job. He's making a case for consideration at least.Rose had only two assists, and it appeared that KP was looking to pass to Rose more than the other way around. Rose has shown he can play off the ball with Jennings. If Rose's shot isnt falling, and he isn't getting KP involved, thats not good. Might need time to transition from his traditional role, but I dont see that happening, yet anyway. If Jennings isnt the right call, try to find a good pass first PG in free agency, if doable.
I completely disagree...Rose should be doing exactly what he is doing..It hasn't been since the 70s the Knicks have had three players who can score 30 pts on any given night...When Melo gets doubled then Rose and KP should be aggressive which is what occurred last night...KP got 16 shots last night and 19 shots the game before, this is what balance looks like...The starters don't need another point guard they need defense..They need exactly what a Shumpert can bring, a lock down perimeter defender and a guy who can hit the three and rebound...KP will get his looks, he can't get all the looks...Melo will get his looks and Rose will slice and dice them..That is a diversified offense..I'm upset they aren't running any plays to hit Lee for the open three...Melo running the pick and roll should be a staple of this offense, often and then often again, I don't see it enough..But our problem won't be offense, it will be defense...Too many open looks for perimeter players..KP has to play better perimeter defense...Defense can put us over the top THIS year...
Disagree that Rose shouldnt look to pass. Im all for diversity in the offense as well, dont want Rose to be the only one touching the ball. Im all for feeding the hot hand, but there are times when Rose isnt hot, and he keeps shooting anyway, passes up teammates. Thats when its time to give up the ball.
He is looking to pass and no one is saying he shouldn't pass...Last night he had the hot hand...Rose and Melo's presence will create wide open opportunities for KP and others as you have seen...We don't need another PG to take the ball out of Melo and Rose's hand...They can create for others...KP will get 15-20 looks per night as will Melo and Rose...That's a good dynamic offense...I can't imagine KP needing more than 20 shots per night, Phil said that isn't basketball...
Wouldnt mind a PG who took the ball out of Rose's hands if he can also find the rim. Like Melo, Rose needs to touch the ball to be effective, but just how much Id like to see left to someone else. Most nights he would out score his counterpart at the 2. His numbers so far show that he isn't looking to pass much in his drives, this predates this game where as reub pointed out, Rose mostly out ran the other team.
The numbers are low enough to be concerned about what this would mean in the playoffs, when defenses clamp down, and the game slows up. You're right its been a long time since we had all these 30pt capable scorers, but one of them was a pass first PG who put them all on the same page.
So why would you want to take the ball out of their hands?? To make them less effective??..I think you have to always run the offense thru your best player/players...We gonna have to disagree on this one...
I do think defense is our biggest issue...So does Melo, but I dont want him running the point, haha. I dont know if it would work full time, but I liked what I saw at times when Rose was at the 2, and Jennings was on point.
Jeff has been a BIG proponent of the 2 PG look. Especially when you have Combo Guards that are capable of being like a SG. Jeff has been working on the BJ and Rose backcourt all season. He's gradually worked it in and they're getting used to each other. It can be a good look against some teams. Just like how Jeff has been gradually using the Euro Lineup and getting them minutes to see how it works. He's done a good job of finding minutes to take a look at different lineups.
StarksEwing1 wrote:You are kidding right? The Rose stuff was ridiculous.nixluva wrote:The crazy thing is that they're finding a way to win at the same time that they're still trying to figure things out in all facets. Jeff is still assessing his roster and how best to use them. The team is still not totally smooth on either end so there's still plenty of upside for this team. That said I'm very pleased with how things have developed.There was no hate for Rose....there was some skepticism which is entirely different. However Rose has looked better and better as the season has gone on. From what I remember everyone loved the Jennings signing especially for the priceCan't help but notice all the Rose and BJ hate has died down!!! The guys that dissed Holiday as just a throw in were way off. The interesting thing tonight was Jeff going with a tighter rotation. I wonder if that's gonna be something he continues or if it was just a feel thing.
martin wrote:Wow. Watching the game tonight and I can't wait to see this performance.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/808175478746005505
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CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:Wow. Watching the game tonight and I can't wait to see this performance.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/808175478746005505
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He had a good game, but the nice thing is - it didn't really seem like anything out of the ordinary from him.
crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:Wow. Watching the game tonight and I can't wait to see this performance.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/808175478746005505
Click here to view the TweetHe had a good game, but the nice thing is - it didn't really seem like anything out of the ordinary from him.
One thing that went unnoticed is that the Knicks perimeter D was forcing players into KP. They were actually doing all the right things at times on D. They forced the penetrator towards the help defender and closed in on them, which forced them into bad shots. If they can do that for closer to 48 minutes this team can be a much better defensive team.
StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:The crazy thing is that they're finding a way to win at the same time that they're still trying to figure things out in all facets. Jeff is still assessing his roster and how best to use them. The team is still not totally smooth on either end so there's still plenty of upside for this team. That said I'm very pleased with how things have developed.There was no hate for Rose....there was some skepticism which is entirely different. However Rose has looked better and better as the season has gone on. From what I remember everyone loved the Jennings signing especially for the priceCan't help but notice all the Rose and BJ hate has died down!!! The guys that dissed Holiday as just a throw in were way off. The interesting thing tonight was Jeff going with a tighter rotation. I wonder if that's gonna be something he continues or if it was just a feel thing.
Where the heck were you?? People were saying Rose was the worst pg in the league and statistically Calderone was better than Rose. Of course you never hear from those people now...
Also for those people complaining od Rose only with 2 assists-- he easily could have had 5 assists. 2 or 3 times he made a nice pass where the player missed the shot. I do consider that an assist.I know its not official but in my book thats an assist
crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:Wow. Watching the game tonight and I can't wait to see this performance.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/808175478746005505
Click here to view the TweetHe had a good game, but the nice thing is - it didn't really seem like anything out of the ordinary from him.
agreed
martin wrote:crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:Wow. Watching the game tonight and I can't wait to see this performance.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/DailyKnicksFS/status/808175478746005505
Click here to view the TweetHe had a good game, but the nice thing is - it didn't really seem like anything out of the ordinary from him.
agreed
As I said upthread, KP got to the line a lot more, twice more than usual. Spent more time in the paint. Hope KP keeps taking it to the other team like he did last night.
CrushAlot wrote:Just watched the game. Boy it is nice to have nba caliber guards on the Knicks. A lot of great performances. Rose was awesome. Was it getting more rest or just another step towards getting his rhythm back? A couple of more games like that and I think you have to bring him back. Jennings was awesome as well. The fourth quarter was pretty sloppy down the stretch but still a great win. Nice to see this team winning on the road consistently. Porzingis was blocking everything.
I'm impressed that this team wins despite not playing their best ball yet IMO! They find a way to win. At some point they should get their act together and play at a higher level consistently. That would be something.