Knicks · We should keep rose long term (page 1)

I know some of you wanna trade rose or let him walk but the guy is playing healthy. Like I said this team is new chemistry takes time as long as we can float around 500 till the all star break we are in good hands... this team has been cursed at the pg position since we traded Clyde to Cleveland.

We finally have a all star caliber PG we've been missing since Clyde.

Now what really needs to happen is for Phil to get on the phone with the commissioner and say why is d rose only going to the line 2 to 4 times a game when he draws just as much contact as harden who goes to the line 12 + times a game.send him video proof of all the no calls. It's a shame cause in Chicago d rose went to the line at will now he gets no respect in a knick uniform.

Rose is a gem and will be hard to replace. Guy is a freak and needs to get more respect from the refs. Losing rose would be a huge mistake .

Now the player we really should look to move is Jennings he's not fitting in with the second unit like he should. He's to much of a gamble when he is out there are we going to get good Jennings or awful Jennings ... Jennings is a nice player who could fetch is a nice prospect or backup.

Also I love Ron baker he is the perfect back up pg to rose. Baker is the best defensive backcourt player on this team and can move over to the two if needed. We struck gold with baker and it's time to play the kid minutes he never really hurts you out there just benefits with great defense and heady plays oh and he's also got a nice touch . Baker = Jennings on the trade block .

I agree on all counts. GP.

Agreed. He's far from perfect but his ability to get to the basket at will would be almost impossible to replace. You don't just let that walk. You take it and accept the weaknesses. If you need to mix things up, you have a guy like baker who gives a completely different look. Maybe jennings is too much like rose in some ways. I'm not sure. He started off so strong but has been forgettable. Using baker and finding another combo guard this offseason might be the best approach. Galloway would sure come in handy these days. But finding another useful guard is doable, but replacing Rose's offense would be very tough.

I'm curious, do you guys think we are going to compete for a title with Rose at PG? Or are you accepting that's not going to happen for years and therefore he would be long gone before we were a legitimate challenger?

Rose will ask for a Max...near Max contract... He is not worth it, sorry.

You keep him for 15-17M a year, maybe, but do you think he will accept that kind of money...no way.

There are good things about him...no doubt about that, but he is not a player who makes others better, and his D is below standard. I can live with the poor 3 pt shooting to a degree, and love the way he goes to the basket, but his lack of assists and the fact he doesn't get foul calls. for whatever reason, is an issue.

We aren't really playing the Triangle anymore, so a starting PG doesn't have that excuse for a low assist total, anymore. His assist numbers are not really acceptable for me. I know that is his history...but his assist totals are well below his historical numbers, even though his minutes are almost the same.

I just need someone who is a better passer and defender at the position.

Not in this, but in several other Rose related Topics, injuries were a big concern about him. Don't know if this has already been posted, but its quite interesting in that regard.

I think he has gotten rid of almost all the suicidal stuff and is playing in a way that is making it much more probable that he can stay healthy. I remember only one really aggressiv Dunk attempt some weeks ago.

WaltLongmire wrote:Rose will ask for a Max...near Max contract... He is not worth it, sorry.

You keep him for 15-17M a year, maybe, but do you think he will accept that kind of money...no way.

There are good things about him...no doubt about that, but he is not a player who makes others better, and his D is below standard. I can live with the poor 3 pt shooting to a degree, and love the way he goes to the basket, but his lack of assists and the fact he doesn't get foul calls. for whatever reason, is an issue.

We aren't really playing the Triangle anymore, so a starting PG doesn't have that excuse for a low assist total, anymore. His assist numbers are not really acceptable for me. I know that is his history...but his assist totals are well below his historical numbers, even though his minutes are almost the same.

I just need someone who is a better passer and defender at the position.

Agree 100% with Walt here.

Rose is a good player individually, but up to this point in his Knicks tenure, his impact on the team wins has been no more than Calderon. We are year on from last year's .500 start, and despite having a better Porzingis, an all-star level talent in Melo, the team still struggles to get above .500

I don't blame all that on Rose, but if you are going to pay someone 20-25 million a year which is what he will get, you want more than what he brings. I think his best role right now in his career is a 6th man on a contender. I struggle to see him start on any top 5 team in a conference. Like Walt said, I would keep him if the money is right. You get a bargain, you take it. Anything else, I do not.

By just going on his words a year ago in Chicago, Rose and his agent will push for the max. They may not get it, but they will not be taking bargain deals. He's going to look for a huge contract and I would prefer the Knicks not be silly enough to give it to him.

I'm fine with signing some role players at point guard and drafting well. We will likely be drafting in the early teens of the draft. We can pick up some serious talent there.

nyknickzingis wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Rose will ask for a Max...near Max contract... He is not worth it, sorry.

You keep him for 15-17M a year, maybe, but do you think he will accept that kind of money...no way.

There are good things about him...no doubt about that, but he is not a player who makes others better, and his D is below standard. I can live with the poor 3 pt shooting to a degree, and love the way he goes to the basket, but his lack of assists and the fact he doesn't get foul calls. for whatever reason, is an issue.

We aren't really playing the Triangle anymore, so a starting PG doesn't have that excuse for a low assist total, anymore. His assist numbers are not really acceptable for me. I know that is his history...but his assist totals are well below his historical numbers, even though his minutes are almost the same.

I just need someone who is a better passer and defender at the position.

Agree 100% with Walt here.

Rose is a good player individually, but up to this point in his Knicks tenure, his impact on the team wins has been no more than Calderon. We are year on from last year's .500 start, and despite having a better Porzingis, an all-star level talent in Melo, the team still struggles to get above .500

I don't blame all that on Rose, but if you are going to pay someone 20-25 million a year which is what he will get, you want more than what he brings. I think his best role right now in his career is a 6th man on a contender. I struggle to see him start on any top 5 team in a conference. Like Walt said, I would keep him if the money is right. You get a bargain, you take it. Anything else, I do not.

By just going on his words a year ago in Chicago, Rose and his agent will push for the max. They may not get it, but they will not be taking bargain deals. He's going to look for a huge contract and I would prefer the Knicks not be silly enough to give it to him.

I'm fine with signing some role players at point guard and drafting well. We will likely be drafting in the early teens of the draft. We can pick up some serious talent there.

So are you insinuating that if Calderon were on this team today as our starting PG we would have the similar record? smh

Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

nyknickzingis wrote:Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

Like I mentioned in another post, Knick fans are so reactionary. Lets revisit this discussion in April. I am confident if he stays healthy we're going to be much more appreciative of Rose, especially compared to who we had last season. Other than hitting the occasional open jumper (and perhaps being good in the locker room) Calderon brought zilch to the table.

This is a team sport. Rose alone is not responsible for our success or lack of success thus far.

When the discussion is about Rose and money, its a whole other proprosition.
Cap is going up, prices are going up, and 17mil is likely not the market price for him.
JR smith gets paid 14mil a year.

I would say his market value is simple: What the market will pay. If he wants to be here, the knicks can let him seek that price and match it. Its a risk as he might decide to take his talents elsewhere.

At the same time, knicks can pay him more than others. AN likely will if we want him as well.
Nalod is undecided still. His flat shot is maddening but his touch passes are awesome. The penetration game is great but he is not a great passer.

As for Jennings, he can't see the pick and roll with KP. he missed him a few times and that off balance jumper is awful.
I like the kids spirit but he appears to be regressing or teams are pushing him to his weaknesses.

fitzfarm wrote:I know some of you wanna trade rose or let him walk but the guy is playing healthy. Like I said this team is new chemistry takes time as long as we can float around 500 till the all star break we are in good hands... this team has been cursed at the pg position since we traded Clyde to Cleveland.

We finally have a all star caliber PG we've been missing since Clyde.

Now what really needs to happen is for Phil to get on the phone with the commissioner and say why is d rose only going to the line 2 to 4 times a game when he draws just as much contact as harden who goes to the line 12 + times a game.send him video proof of all the no calls. It's a shame cause in Chicago d rose went to the line at will now he gets no respect in a knick uniform.

Rose is a gem and will be hard to replace. Guy is a freak and needs to get more respect from the refs. Losing rose would be a huge mistake .

Now the player we really should look to move is Jennings he's not fitting in with the second unit like he should. He's to much of a gamble when he is out there are we going to get good Jennings or awful Jennings ... Jennings is a nice player who could fetch is a nice prospect or backup.

Also I love Ron baker he is the perfect back up pg to rose. Baker is the best defensive backcourt player on this team and can move over to the two if needed. We struck gold with baker and it's time to play the kid minutes he never really hurts you out there just benefits with great defense and heady plays oh and he's also got a nice touch . Baker = Jennings on the trade block .

Good post. I agree. He can make some minor changes to draw more fouls and in fact he needs to do so for our success. It's a lost art form. And it's the most efficient way to score, soften the other team's D, and improve your own (no fast breaks etc)

He also needs to tighten his D some. I think this will improve too

Let's be patient

Personally I like the idea that he's not much for speeches, thinks everything starts with D, and is not a sulker

Jennings is in a rut and needs to keep it he energy but dial back the difficult flashy passes. I think he's well intentioned trying to be a catalyst but turnovers can kill you

And happy about Ron (The Bro Flow)

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Rose will ask for a Max...near Max contract... He is not worth it, sorry.

You keep him for 15-17M a year, maybe, but do you think he will accept that kind of money...no way.

There are good things about him...no doubt about that, but he is not a player who makes others better, and his D is below standard. I can live with the poor 3 pt shooting to a degree, and love the way he goes to the basket, but his lack of assists and the fact he doesn't get foul calls. for whatever reason, is an issue.

We aren't really playing the Triangle anymore, so a starting PG doesn't have that excuse for a low assist total, anymore. His assist numbers are not really acceptable for me. I know that is his history...but his assist totals are well below his historical numbers, even though his minutes are almost the same.

I just need someone who is a better passer and defender at the position.

Agree 100% with Walt here.

Rose is a good player individually, but up to this point in his Knicks tenure, his impact on the team wins has been no more than Calderon. We are year on from last year's .500 start, and despite having a better Porzingis, an all-star level talent in Melo, the team still struggles to get above .500

I don't blame all that on Rose, but if you are going to pay someone 20-25 million a year which is what he will get, you want more than what he brings. I think his best role right now in his career is a 6th man on a contender. I struggle to see him start on any top 5 team in a conference. Like Walt said, I would keep him if the money is right. You get a bargain, you take it. Anything else, I do not.

By just going on his words a year ago in Chicago, Rose and his agent will push for the max. They may not get it, but they will not be taking bargain deals. He's going to look for a huge contract and I would prefer the Knicks not be silly enough to give it to him.

I'm fine with signing some role players at point guard and drafting well. We will likely be drafting in the early teens of the draft. We can pick up some serious talent there.

So are you insinuating that if Calderon were on this team today as our starting PG we would have the similar record? smh

Does anyone know our record when Melo, KP, and rose all play? It has to be pretty good, and terrible when 1 of them is out. That's not on Rose. We need other guys that can step up when needed.

fitzfarm wrote:I know some of you wanna trade rose or let him walk but the guy is playing healthy. Like I said this team is new chemistry takes time as long as we can float around 500 till the all star break we are in good hands... this team has been cursed at the pg position since we traded Clyde to Cleveland.

We finally have a all star caliber PG we've been missing since Clyde.

Now what really needs to happen is for Phil to get on the phone with the commissioner and say why is d rose only going to the line 2 to 4 times a game when he draws just as much contact as harden who goes to the line 12 + times a game.send him video proof of all the no calls. It's a shame cause in Chicago d rose went to the line at will now he gets no respect in a knick uniform.

Rose is a gem and will be hard to replace. Guy is a freak and needs to get more respect from the refs. Losing rose would be a huge mistake .

Now the player we really should look to move is Jennings he's not fitting in with the second unit like he should. He's to much of a gamble when he is out there are we going to get good Jennings or awful Jennings ... Jennings is a nice player who could fetch is a nice prospect or backup.

Also I love Ron baker he is the perfect back up pg to rose. Baker is the best defensive backcourt player on this team and can move over to the two if needed. We struck gold with baker and it's time to play the kid minutes he never really hurts you out there just benefits with great defense and heady plays oh and he's also got a nice touch . Baker = Jennings on the trade block .

I love Rose but i'm only re-signing him to a long term contract if we can't get one of K.Lowry or C.Paul, would love to put S.Curry in there but i think we all know he isn't leaving GSW.

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

Like I mentioned in another post, Knick fans are so reactionary. Lets revisit this discussion in April. I am confident if he stays healthy we're going to be much more appreciative of Rose, especially compared to who we had last season. Other than hitting the occasional open jumper (and perhaps being good in the locker room) Calderon brought zilch to the table.

This is a team sport. Rose alone is not responsible for our success or lack of success thus far.

Good observations. Many of the player analyses that come after losing streaks are very reactionary and remind me of the crazed "Fire Phil" meme that the first two years of Phil's tenure wrought. Something that's obvious is that the Knicks have not played together as long as many of the teams that they are quite competitive with. There are times that Knicks fans such as myself have flashbacks to the previous two decades in which the Knicks would find yet another way to blow a game.

I think the Knicks are a work in progress. And that progress will unfold. The playoffs are everything. Whoever plays well or tanks there will decide resignings and for how much. Phil has been prudent in managing the Knicks payroll. Anthony took a haircut and I suspect Rose will too if the future looks, well, 'rosey'.

Jennings reminds me of Jamal Crawford who I couldn't wait to be traded only to regret that impulse as Crawford matured his game. While I wouldn't classify Jennings as untouchable, some patience may be in order.

You cant sign him to a longterm contract....way too risky with his injury history. I think rose has done well for us and i would be open to a 2 year deal

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

Like I mentioned in another post, Knick fans are so reactionary. Lets revisit this discussion in April. I am confident if he stays healthy we're going to be much more appreciative of Rose, especially compared to who we had last season. Other than hitting the occasional open jumper (and perhaps being good in the locker room) Calderon brought zilch to the table.

This is a team sport. Rose alone is not responsible for our success or lack of success thus far.

Yet he plays what is arguably THE most important "team" position on a team that doesn't have another high assist distributor. You see what the great "point" players are able to do for a team.

He's much more of a reactive passer, who frequently dishes when he has no chance to score, but we all know that his first choice is to look to score. He's much more of an old school "guard" from the days when you didn't necessarily use the terms "point" or "shooting" when describing a guard, but Rose is much more of a shooting guard than a PG.

We have guys who can score. Lee is a great spot-up shooter, and we know what Melo and KP can do. Why don't we have a PG who can take advantage of these guys and get them into optimal positions to score. Yes, Rose had a good assist game last night, but he is averaging only 4.5 APG as out starting PG. Sorry, but that is not good enough for me.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

Like I mentioned in another post, Knick fans are so reactionary. Lets revisit this discussion in April. I am confident if he stays healthy we're going to be much more appreciative of Rose, especially compared to who we had last season. Other than hitting the occasional open jumper (and perhaps being good in the locker room) Calderon brought zilch to the table.

This is a team sport. Rose alone is not responsible for our success or lack of success thus far.

Yet he plays what is arguably THE most important "team" position on a team that doesn't have another high assist distributor. You see what the great "point" players are able to do for a team.

He's much more of a reactive passer, who frequently dishes when he has no chance to score, but we all know that his first choice is to look to score. He's much more of an old school "guard" from the days when you didn't necessarily use the terms "point" or "shooting" when describing a guard, but Rose is much more of a shooting guard than a PG.

We have guys who can score. Lee is a great spot-up shooter, and we know what Melo and KP can do. Why don't we have a PG who can take advantage of these guys and get them into optimal positions to score. Yes, Rose had a good assist game last night, but he is averaging only 4.5 APG as out starting PG. Sorry, but that is not good enough for me.

Part of the assist thing is that Rose plays in a partly Triangle based offense and the ball goes to Noah and Melo a lot in that style. People don't pay attention to this but it's exactly what happens.
Once Melo gets it he is gonna hold it first. He rarely catches and shoots. We don't really run a lot of PnR. The principles of this offense are still very much based on the Triangle especially with the Starter.

When Melo played more Point Forward last night you saw more PnR with Noah which is smart! Perhaps Jeff will feature this more. We'll see.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Individually Rose is a much better player than Calderon. It shouldn't be about Rose vs Calderon. Calderon was on his way out anyway.

I think if we had Calderon, Melo would be in the point forward role and we'd be a different type of team. Less fast breaks and 1 on 1 play, but also better execution. You look at our record a year ago, it's almost identical. Despite a better Porzingis. I think Rose's impact has been negligble. He's using a high rate of plays - has a high usage. That leads to good numbers. His net impact though is not much. I hate to say this only because I was so excited to see him play healthy and explosive at season's start. But the guy just isn't the right fit for this group. The only thing I think would work is if they brought him off the bench. He's a fantastic scorer or capable to get to the basket at will. The 2nd unit could use that. Allow Melo and KP to rest more. With the starters, I find Rose's net impact to be neither positive or negative. I think advanced stats will show that as well.

He plays his best when he's the man. Sort of like when Melo got ejected that game. Or when KP/Melo both missed the Houston game. To me that screams for this team current Knicks team, Rose should be in Jennings spot. Let Baker start or trade for someone who is capable to. I've got nothing against keeping Rose if he is willing to take a good contract and would be open to coming off the bench.

Like I mentioned in another post, Knick fans are so reactionary. Lets revisit this discussion in April. I am confident if he stays healthy we're going to be much more appreciative of Rose, especially compared to who we had last season. Other than hitting the occasional open jumper (and perhaps being good in the locker room) Calderon brought zilch to the table.

This is a team sport. Rose alone is not responsible for our success or lack of success thus far.

Yet he plays what is arguably THE most important "team" position on a team that doesn't have another high assist distributor. You see what the great "point" players are able to do for a team.

He's much more of a reactive passer, who frequently dishes when he has no chance to score, but we all know that his first choice is to look to score. He's much more of an old school "guard" from the days when you didn't necessarily use the terms "point" or "shooting" when describing a guard, but Rose is much more of a shooting guard than a PG.

We have guys who can score. Lee is a great spot-up shooter, and we know what Melo and KP can do. Why don't we have a PG who can take advantage of these guys and get them into optimal positions to score. Yes, Rose had a good assist game last night, but he is averaging only 4.5 APG as out starting PG. Sorry, but that is not good enough for me.

I agree. If Rose wasn't the PG, was an SG, or was instant offense off the bench, I could see him making this team more competitive. That is with a starting PG who knows his primary task is to keep his teammates on the same page.

As you pointed out, Rose passes too often to get bailed out. Marbury did that a lot too, but he still managed to double his assists. Marbury ran a lot of P&Rs as well.

Baker showed that even a rookie PG can do wonders for this team because he tried to make his teammates better. Thats why Baker helped win the game in the 4th last night, and Rose didn't.

I'd honestly rather give that max deal to someone like Shaun Livingston than Derrick Rose.

Not a snowballs chance in hell I'd give Rose any big contract. He's clearly an improvement of the dire PG's we have had in recent times but he will not take this team to the next level. Given his past injuries and very inconsistent play there is no chance I'd burden the team with another bad long term contract to a player who's best years are behind him.