The responses here are exactly why our fans don't deserve a good team. Only this fan base would be critical of a 21 year old 7'3 player's perimeter defense, and ignore the fact that he's one of the best rim protectors in the league. This is sad.
Knicksfan wrote:Knixkik wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Porzingis is a nice player but he isnt a superstar, He wont be a top 5 playerholfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Yeah..Thanks Phil for missed playoff appearances and a bunch of soft players who play with zero emotion and zero defense...Let build around that..Great coach by the way...
And where were we at before phil got here? Bad team with no young superstar and no draft picks. I don't see any harm in taking short term chances as long as we are still building for the future. Phil failed with all of the short term stuff. As for the long term stuff, he hit it out of the park. No one can debate that. Ultimately he's been the only front office leader to be successful with a lottery pick.
Woodson was taking us to the playoffs is where we were..JR came of surgery and speculation in December that Woodson was done where he lost control of the team after the 54 win season when Phil was offered the job..We had Amare and Chandler rolling off a year later for a quick retool..Don't hand me the crap that we are in better days now...
Everyone knew the window was small with that group. Melo was in his prime with a perfect supporting cast. Things are far from perfect now, but we have a start and a player to build around. It's a repeat of the early Ewing years. I'll take that.
Hahaha..Early Ewing years..My favorite all time player..Don't make me laugh..The Hoya Destroya..Defense first..U are seeing this now are you?.
Winning is a talent..Put players around Ewing and you will compete..Now??
Most would disagree with you, if he's developed properly.
People are souring on Porzingis because of the team's performance, and that's a shame.
Porzingis is an amazing prospect (yeah, its just his second year, coming from far away and he still is performing solid) that could change the league if developed properly.
Thing is, the Knicks are a dysfunctional mess that, if not dealt with soon, could have huge consequences for Porzingis. His defense has taken a hit, his confidence is low and you can see how down he is on the team right now.
Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose, respected veterans supposed to be solid mentors for Porzingis, have both performed so poorly, unprofessional and childish that both really need to be gone if we are meant to save Porzingis, the youngsters and possibly build on this foundation and our picks this year.
Porzingis is not the problem, but if you leave a fresh new apple with two rotten ones, what do you think will happen?
It's just baffling to me how quickly some have turned on KP. I will never understand our fans. We have a possible franchise player at 21 playing way ahead of schedule and people are killing him for his perimeter defense. Makes zero sense.
Whether that was luck or skill or both on Phil's part is hard to know. But we need someone who is capable of building a team with KP. Just having KP and a bunch of bums is useless.
Bonn1997 wrote:Whether that was luck or skill or both on Phil's part is hard to know. But we need someone who is capable of building a team with KP. Just having KP and a bunch of bums is useless.
Funny you should say that..
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Whether that was luck or skill or both on Phil's part is hard to know. But we need someone who is capable of building a team with KP. Just having KP and a bunch of bums is useless.
Funny you should say that..
Completely agree. It's a starting point but that's it.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Yeah..Thanks Phil for missed playoff appearances and a bunch of soft players who play with zero emotion and zero defense...Let build around that..Great coach by the way...
And where were we at before phil got here? Bad team with no young superstar and no draft picks. I don't see any harm in taking short term chances as long as we are still building for the future. Phil failed with all of the short term stuff. As for the long term stuff, he hit it out of the park. No one can debate that. Ultimately he's been the only front office leader to be successful with a lottery pick.
Woodson was taking us to the playoffs is where we were..JR came of surgery and speculation in December that Woodson was done where he lost control of the team after the 54 win season when Phil was offered the job..We had Amare and Chandler rolling off a year later for a quick retool..Don't hand me the crap that we are in better days now...
Everyone knew the window was small with that group. Melo was in his prime with a perfect supporting cast. Things are far from perfect now, but we have a start and a player to build around. It's a repeat of the early Ewing years. I'll take that.
Hahaha..Early Ewing years..My favorite all time player..Don't make me laugh..The Hoya Destroya..Defense first..U are seeing this now are you?.
Winning is a talent..Put players around Ewing and you will compete..Now??
My favorite all time too. But knicks were bad for Ewing's first few years. He was 26 when they finally had a winning season. KP has a chance to be the greatest knick ever. It takes time to become a good defensive player. But like every other star we have ever had, you guys won't appreciate him and will treat him like crap his entire knick career, just like Ewing and melo. Knicks fans are the most interesting creatures on the planet I swear.
holfresh hates Phil and misses Isiah so he's reveling right now
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose Jennings are Triangle players?
I believe I read that Thibs played the triangle 25% of the time in Chicago.
Ewing was a 4 year senior and very polished defensively as he had amazing athletic ability.
KP is fundamentally superior to Ewing offensively.
Ewing offensive game was very suprising as we did not see that in College.
Ewing had flaws in his game that 20 years later we are not remembering.
January is depressing, Knicks in a bad way, and we shyting on KP is really not called for. He is not a franchise player. I did not watch the game last nite but he sat a few games to rest those sore heals and
It might be hampering him.
He is not top 5 at the moment.
holfresh wrote:^^^^"Do they have 11 Championships ?"
...and Jordan, Shaq and Kobe. How many rings without them? Hard to credit the "system" when you consistently had the best player in the league.
Welpee wrote:holfresh wrote:^^^^"Do they have 11 Championships ?"
...and Jordan, Shaq and Kobe. How many rings without them? Hard to credit the "system" when you consistently had the best player in the league.
They didn't have a ring before he got there. Maybe a little of both helped in getting the rings.
Nalod wrote:Ewing was a 4 year senior and very polished defensively as he had amazing athletic ability.
KP is fundamentally superior to Ewing offensively.
Ewing offensive game was very suprising as we did not see that in College.
Ewing had flaws in his game that 20 years later we are not remembering.
January is depressing, Knicks in a bad way, and we shyting on KP is really not called for. He is not a franchise player. I did not watch the game last nite but he sat a few games to rest those sore heals and
It might be hampering him.
He is not top 5 at the moment.
He has a long ways to go. He absolutely has franchise player talent. KP, Towns, and Giannis are in a category of their own as far as elite under-23 talent. Most teams in the league would trade their best player for an opportunity to build a team around KP. At 21, we can't expect him to be a complete player. And playing out of position without a PG who can get him easy buckets doesn't help. He's averaging 19 ppg, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, and is one of the best rim protectors in the league. Last i checked, only Embiid and Gobert had a slight lead on him as far as opponent fg% at the rim. How is there any criticism of him at all? He is light-years ahead of the boldest predictions anyone could have had for him. A guy like that doesn't really come into his own until at least year 4. He's 100+ games into his career. The mindset around here sometimes never stops amazing me.
Vmart wrote:Welpee wrote:holfresh wrote:^^^^"Do they have 11 Championships ?"
...and Jordan, Shaq and Kobe. How many rings without them? Hard to credit the "system" when you consistently had the best player in the league.
They didn't have a ring before he got there. Maybe a little of both helped in getting the rings.
Maybe. But has anybody had any success running the triangle anywhere else? You also have to throw Tex Winter in there too. Kinda like Parcells never making it to a super bowl without Belichick.
Knixkik wrote:Knicksfan wrote:Knixkik wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Porzingis is a nice player but he isnt a superstar, He wont be a top 5 playerholfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Yeah..Thanks Phil for missed playoff appearances and a bunch of soft players who play with zero emotion and zero defense...Let build around that..Great coach by the way...
And where were we at before phil got here? Bad team with no young superstar and no draft picks. I don't see any harm in taking short term chances as long as we are still building for the future. Phil failed with all of the short term stuff. As for the long term stuff, he hit it out of the park. No one can debate that. Ultimately he's been the only front office leader to be successful with a lottery pick.
Woodson was taking us to the playoffs is where we were..JR came of surgery and speculation in December that Woodson was done where he lost control of the team after the 54 win season when Phil was offered the job..We had Amare and Chandler rolling off a year later for a quick retool..Don't hand me the crap that we are in better days now...
Everyone knew the window was small with that group. Melo was in his prime with a perfect supporting cast. Things are far from perfect now, but we have a start and a player to build around. It's a repeat of the early Ewing years. I'll take that.
Hahaha..Early Ewing years..My favorite all time player..Don't make me laugh..The Hoya Destroya..Defense first..U are seeing this now are you?.
Winning is a talent..Put players around Ewing and you will compete..Now??
Most would disagree with you, if he's developed properly.
People are souring on Porzingis because of the team's performance, and that's a shame.
Porzingis is an amazing prospect (yeah, its just his second year, coming from far away and he still is performing solid) that could change the league if developed properly.
Thing is, the Knicks are a dysfunctional mess that, if not dealt with soon, could have huge consequences for Porzingis. His defense has taken a hit, his confidence is low and you can see how down he is on the team right now.
Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose, respected veterans supposed to be solid mentors for Porzingis, have both performed so poorly, unprofessional and childish that both really need to be gone if we are meant to save Porzingis, the youngsters and possibly build on this foundation and our picks this year.
Porzingis is not the problem, but if you leave a fresh new apple with two rotten ones, what do you think will happen?
It's just baffling to me how quickly some have turned on KP. I will never understand our fans. We have a possible franchise player at 21 playing way ahead of schedule and people are killing him for his perimeter defense. Makes zero sense.
Yep.
It's sad because KP is so ahead of the curve, people forget he is in his second year, coming from abroad, still adjusting to the league and to his 3rd coach already, and also having to deal with so much controversy.
People, focus on the real problems. KP isn't really one of them.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Ewing was a 4 year senior and very polished defensively as he had amazing athletic ability.
KP is fundamentally superior to Ewing offensively.
Ewing offensive game was very suprising as we did not see that in College.
Ewing had flaws in his game that 20 years later we are not remembering.
January is depressing, Knicks in a bad way, and we shyting on KP is really not called for. He is not a franchise player. I did not watch the game last nite but he sat a few games to rest those sore heals and
It might be hampering him.
He is not top 5 at the moment.
He has a long ways to go. He absolutely has franchise player talent. KP, Towns, and Giannis are in a category of their own as far as elite under-23 talent. Most teams in the league would trade their best player for an opportunity to build a team around KP. At 21, we can't expect him to be a complete player. And playing out of position without a PG who can get him easy buckets doesn't help. He's averaging 19 ppg, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, and is one of the best rim protectors in the league. Last i checked, only Embiid and Gobert had a slight lead on him as far as opponent fg% at the rim. How is there any criticism of him at all? He is light-years ahead of the boldest predictions anyone could have had for him. A guy like that doesn't really come into his own until at least year 4. He's 100+ games into his career. The mindset around here sometimes never stops amazing me.
I agree (except this notion people have adopted that he's playing out of position). But I agree, we need to just give him time and be patient. Compare him to where Giannis was in his second year and people would see he's probably ahead of schedule in his development. Any time people are down on KP, remember, we could've ended up with Okafor.
Welpee wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Ewing was a 4 year senior and very polished defensively as he had amazing athletic ability.
KP is fundamentally superior to Ewing offensively.
Ewing offensive game was very suprising as we did not see that in College.
Ewing had flaws in his game that 20 years later we are not remembering.
January is depressing, Knicks in a bad way, and we shyting on KP is really not called for. He is not a franchise player. I did not watch the game last nite but he sat a few games to rest those sore heals and
It might be hampering him.
He is not top 5 at the moment.
He has a long ways to go. He absolutely has franchise player talent. KP, Towns, and Giannis are in a category of their own as far as elite under-23 talent. Most teams in the league would trade their best player for an opportunity to build a team around KP. At 21, we can't expect him to be a complete player. And playing out of position without a PG who can get him easy buckets doesn't help. He's averaging 19 ppg, 8 rebs, 2 blocks, and is one of the best rim protectors in the league. Last i checked, only Embiid and Gobert had a slight lead on him as far as opponent fg% at the rim. How is there any criticism of him at all? He is light-years ahead of the boldest predictions anyone could have had for him. A guy like that doesn't really come into his own until at least year 4. He's 100+ games into his career. The mindset around here sometimes never stops amazing me.
I agree (except this notion people have adopted that he's playing out of position). But I agree, we need to just give him time and be patient. Compare him to where Giannis was in his second year and people would see he's probably ahead of schedule in his development. Any time people are down on KP, remember, we could've ended up with Okafor.
Great point about Giannis. Look at where he was in his 2nd year. And for those who want to say Giannis was a year younger than KP as a 2nd year player, ok that's fine. So Giannis as a 3rd year player was probably still a little behind where KP is now, but it is close. Towns is putting up numbers, but i would say KP is having a greater impact (or at least very close). I really hope KP doesn't get the same treatment Ewing and Melo received with our fans, but i'm afraid it's starting earlier than i anticipated. Next year i am going to start holding him more accountable for his weaknesses, if he doesn't make that jump. But it is way too early and this guy has been an absolute stud in his first 1+ year. A franchise caliber player in every sense.
Welpee wrote:Vmart wrote:Welpee wrote:holfresh wrote:^^^^"Do they have 11 Championships ?"
...and Jordan, Shaq and Kobe. How many rings without them? Hard to credit the "system" when you consistently had the best player in the league.
They didn't have a ring before he got there. Maybe a little of both helped in getting the rings.
Maybe. But has anybody had any success running the triangle anywhere else? You also have to throw Tex Winter in there too. Kinda like Parcells never making it to a super bowl without Belichick.
There is only one person that can sell the triangle to the Knicks and its Phil. Phil has an aura of confidence that gives the players a feeling that everything is going to work. The other coaches can't sell it. Basketball or any team sport for that matter is all about buying in. Kerr can sell what he is coaching because he has won a lot he can sell that he played with the GOAT in Jordan, Duncan and my coach was Phil Jackson and Pop, the team is all ears. Lue he is selling it I played with Shaq and I played with Kobe and my coach was Phil Jackson. Its not the system its how you sell it.
KP is playing with an achilles problem and 2 veteran stars who think they have to showcase their worth during this losing. Rose and Melo have been playing with an extra chip because the losing is mostly put on them and not KP because of age differences.
He's definitely not 100%
However he is still on pace to be the only player in league history to hit as many 3's and have as many blocks as he is.
What KP needs is a post game. His post game is not consistent. Once he gets that, he will be unstoppable.
Just for comparison sake
KP at 21, 2nd year - 19.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2,0 bpg 55.5 TS%
Dirk at 21, 2nd year - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 bpg 56.4 TS%
I still see a more athletic version of Nowitzki in him. Dirk does as well. All KP needs is 1-2 offseason dedicated to post moves and being able to shoot over smaller guys. He still rushes or plays with a lack of experience to smaller defenders. He will figure it out. He picks up stupid fouls still that make him less aggrerssive. He needs to figure it out. He is such a hard worker and eats breaths and lives the game. He's not about his brand, he is not about anything but the game. I trust that he will put in the work.
And yes, fans that can't even admit that KP is on the right path to being a franchise player (not to say he will for sure become one) are ridiculous. Not in anyone's dreams would they have thought that the #4 pick in the 2015 draft would be giving the team 20/7/2 a night at 21 years old on a tean where Melo and Rose have a very high usage rate. Come on. The kid was supposed to be closer to Bargnani than anything else and he's now being measured up to Anthony Davis or Towns or Ewing's time as a Knick. Just that he's being compared to them should show you how good he's been. Meanwhile go ask the Sixers what they think of Okafor or ask the Lakers if they still would want Russell over KP.
nyknickzingis wrote:KP is playing with an achilles problem and 2 veteran stars who think they have to showcase their worth during this losing. Rose and Melo have been playing with an extra chip because the losing is mostly put on them and not KP because of age differences. He's definitely not 100%
However he is still on pace to be the only player in league history to hit as many 3's and have as many blocks as he is.
What KP needs is a post game. His post game is not consistent. Once he gets that, he will be unstoppable.
Just for comparison sake
KP at 21, 2nd year - 19.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2,0 bpg 55.5 TS%
Dirk at 21, 2nd year - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 bpg 56.4 TS%
I still see a more athletic version of Nowitzki in him. Dirk does as well. All KP needs is 1-2 offseason dedicated to post moves and being able to shoot over smaller guys. He still rushes or plays with a lack of experience to smaller defenders. He will figure it out. He picks up stupid fouls still that make him less aggrerssive. He needs to figure it out. He is such a hard worker and eats breaths and lives the game. He's not about his brand, he is not about anything but the game. I trust that he will put in the work.
And yes, fans that can't even admit that KP is on the right path to being a franchise player (not to say he will for sure become one) are ridiculous. Not in anyone's dreams would they have thought that the #4 pick in the 2015 draft would be giving the team 20/7/2 a night at 21 years old on a tean where Melo and Rose have a very high usage rate. Come on. The kid was supposed to be closer to Bargnani than anything else and he's now being measured up to Anthony Davis or Towns or Ewing's time as a Knick. Just that he's being compared to them should show you how good he's been. Meanwhile go ask the Sixers what they think of Okafor or ask the Lakers if they still would want Russell over KP.
So KP is well ahead of Dirk's production at the same age and experience, including rim protection that Dirk never developed, and people are seriously criticizing him. Beyond mind-boggling.
Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:KP is playing with an achilles problem and 2 veteran stars who think they have to showcase their worth during this losing. Rose and Melo have been playing with an extra chip because the losing is mostly put on them and not KP because of age differences. He's definitely not 100%
However he is still on pace to be the only player in league history to hit as many 3's and have as many blocks as he is.
What KP needs is a post game. His post game is not consistent. Once he gets that, he will be unstoppable.
Just for comparison sake
KP at 21, 2nd year - 19.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2,0 bpg 55.5 TS%
Dirk at 21, 2nd year - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 bpg 56.4 TS%
I still see a more athletic version of Nowitzki in him. Dirk does as well. All KP needs is 1-2 offseason dedicated to post moves and being able to shoot over smaller guys. He still rushes or plays with a lack of experience to smaller defenders. He will figure it out. He picks up stupid fouls still that make him less aggrerssive. He needs to figure it out. He is such a hard worker and eats breaths and lives the game. He's not about his brand, he is not about anything but the game. I trust that he will put in the work.
And yes, fans that can't even admit that KP is on the right path to being a franchise player (not to say he will for sure become one) are ridiculous. Not in anyone's dreams would they have thought that the #4 pick in the 2015 draft would be giving the team 20/7/2 a night at 21 years old on a tean where Melo and Rose have a very high usage rate. Come on. The kid was supposed to be closer to Bargnani than anything else and he's now being measured up to Anthony Davis or Towns or Ewing's time as a Knick. Just that he's being compared to them should show you how good he's been. Meanwhile go ask the Sixers what they think of Okafor or ask the Lakers if they still would want Russell over KP.
So KP is well ahead of Dirk's production at the same age and experience, including rim protection that Dirk never developed, and people are seriously criticizing him. Beyond mind-boggling.
Is anyone seriously criticizing him? What I see about KP on this board is basically a few gentle, constructive comments and a ton of praise.
Bonn1997 wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:KP is playing with an achilles problem and 2 veteran stars who think they have to showcase their worth during this losing. Rose and Melo have been playing with an extra chip because the losing is mostly put on them and not KP because of age differences. He's definitely not 100%
However he is still on pace to be the only player in league history to hit as many 3's and have as many blocks as he is.
What KP needs is a post game. His post game is not consistent. Once he gets that, he will be unstoppable.
Just for comparison sake
KP at 21, 2nd year - 19.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2,0 bpg 55.5 TS%
Dirk at 21, 2nd year - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 bpg 56.4 TS%
I still see a more athletic version of Nowitzki in him. Dirk does as well. All KP needs is 1-2 offseason dedicated to post moves and being able to shoot over smaller guys. He still rushes or plays with a lack of experience to smaller defenders. He will figure it out. He picks up stupid fouls still that make him less aggrerssive. He needs to figure it out. He is such a hard worker and eats breaths and lives the game. He's not about his brand, he is not about anything but the game. I trust that he will put in the work.
And yes, fans that can't even admit that KP is on the right path to being a franchise player (not to say he will for sure become one) are ridiculous. Not in anyone's dreams would they have thought that the #4 pick in the 2015 draft would be giving the team 20/7/2 a night at 21 years old on a tean where Melo and Rose have a very high usage rate. Come on. The kid was supposed to be closer to Bargnani than anything else and he's now being measured up to Anthony Davis or Towns or Ewing's time as a Knick. Just that he's being compared to them should show you how good he's been. Meanwhile go ask the Sixers what they think of Okafor or ask the Lakers if they still would want Russell over KP.
So KP is well ahead of Dirk's production at the same age and experience, including rim protection that Dirk never developed, and people are seriously criticizing him. Beyond mind-boggling.
Is anyone seriously criticizing him? What I see about KP on this board is basically a few gentle, constructive comments and a ton of praise.
I would consider a lot of what is said in this thread. A lot of people suddenly think he's a horrible defender (despite being a league leader in opponent fg%) and some not thinking he is a franchise caliber player. In actually, it is just a small percentage of people just making a lot of noise. I think the majority of us still recognize what we have here and understand that despite the struggles, we are in a better place now than we have been as a franchise, at least in the UltimateKnicks.com era.
Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:KP is playing with an achilles problem and 2 veteran stars who think they have to showcase their worth during this losing. Rose and Melo have been playing with an extra chip because the losing is mostly put on them and not KP because of age differences. He's definitely not 100%
However he is still on pace to be the only player in league history to hit as many 3's and have as many blocks as he is.
What KP needs is a post game. His post game is not consistent. Once he gets that, he will be unstoppable.
Just for comparison sake
KP at 21, 2nd year - 19.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2,0 bpg 55.5 TS%
Dirk at 21, 2nd year - 17.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 0.8 bpg 56.4 TS%
I still see a more athletic version of Nowitzki in him. Dirk does as well. All KP needs is 1-2 offseason dedicated to post moves and being able to shoot over smaller guys. He still rushes or plays with a lack of experience to smaller defenders. He will figure it out. He picks up stupid fouls still that make him less aggrerssive. He needs to figure it out. He is such a hard worker and eats breaths and lives the game. He's not about his brand, he is not about anything but the game. I trust that he will put in the work.
And yes, fans that can't even admit that KP is on the right path to being a franchise player (not to say he will for sure become one) are ridiculous. Not in anyone's dreams would they have thought that the #4 pick in the 2015 draft would be giving the team 20/7/2 a night at 21 years old on a tean where Melo and Rose have a very high usage rate. Come on. The kid was supposed to be closer to Bargnani than anything else and he's now being measured up to Anthony Davis or Towns or Ewing's time as a Knick. Just that he's being compared to them should show you how good he's been. Meanwhile go ask the Sixers what they think of Okafor or ask the Lakers if they still would want Russell over KP.
So KP is well ahead of Dirk's production at the same age and experience, including rim protection that Dirk never developed, and people are seriously criticizing him. Beyond mind-boggling.
Is anyone seriously criticizing him? What I see about KP on this board is basically a few gentle, constructive comments and a ton of praise.
I would consider a lot of what is said in this thread. A lot of people suddenly think he's a horrible defender (despite being a league leader in opponent fg%) and some not thinking he is a franchise caliber player. In actually, it is just a small percentage of people just making a lot of noise. I think the majority of us still recognize what we have here and understand that despite the struggles, we are in a better place now than we have been as a franchise, at least in the UltimateKnicks.com era.
What statements are you referring to? I think you're misreading statements that are pretty gentle.
