Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:callmened wrote:nixluva wrote:At this point none of this side drama matters to me anymore. We still have KP and other young players!!! We still have our draft picks!!! IF any of these vets don't like it here they can be traded at their own request. I want guys that want to be here and do whatever is needed for the team!!!
i love your optimism nixluva. yes we have our draft picks and KP but...
the reality is this team is a joke and an embarrassment. no not because of their poor record but because of the DRAMA that always FOLLOWS this organization.
Yeah, it's not the kind of environment I'd want to stay in longer than I had to if I were KP. Phil and Dolan need to turn this around by the time he's an FA.
If he learned anything from Melo he won't be passing on the money the Knicks dish out. I'm not worried about KP. The guy is about basketball and being humble.
Wouldn't that mean he'd rather be part of an organization he was proud of than chase dollars?
fitzfarm wrote:EnySpree wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If it's about the Knicks benching him definitely Jeff and Kurt.
It think it's clearly a jab and Jeff and Kurt... characters look similar and ask the players have been critical of the defense. The players are out there so they need to execute. Sucks that we have to go through this again
Well it shows you how dumb Lee is if it's a jab he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end.... he should really be disappointed with himself for his lack of production.... he always has been a solid bench guy not a starter... baker is the better all around player and it showed today.
Idk, why is it that every decent solid defender that comes to the knicks turns into a less than an avg defender. Even galloway and Lopez started out good and became bad real fast, Now they are both back to being solid.
Rose was never a good defender, but at no point on the Bulls was he this laid back on D.
cleaarly this is About JH and Rambis..JH has already had players throw towels at him, and no one knows wtf rambis is doing but phil
fwk00 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:EnySpree wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If it's about the Knicks benching him definitely Jeff and Kurt.
It think it's clearly a jab and Jeff and Kurt... characters look similar and ask the players have been critical of the defense. The players are out there so they need to execute. Sucks that we have to go through this again
Well it shows you how dumb Lee is if it's a jab he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end.... he should really be disappointed with himself for his lack of production.... he always has been a solid bench guy not a starter... baker is the better all around player and it showed today.
This is spot on.
If Rambis, Hornacek or both are going to be blamed for the poor defence of Melo, Rose, and Lee then they should be given credit for Baker, Holiday, Thomas, Porzingis, and the rest of the players busting their asses to win.
We have watched this film endlessly - "its the coach's faults". Or the Triangle, or Phil, or Dolan.
WHAT ABOUT THE PLAYERS WHO LACE IT UP EVERY GAME?
If Lee posted this he's toast in NY. Cold-cocking the coaches on social media will not sit well anywhere.
Quite frankly, I'm okay with players self-selecting their way out the door. Overall, Lee was not bringing enough to the defensive end to be effective. Period. Yeah, he shot well enough to have good stats but not good enough to stop offensive runs from opposing teams when it would actually stem the tide.
Baker and Holiday EARNED their time. They aren't mailing it in. If Hornacek sits everyone of those over-priced stars for the rest of the year I'm good with it. Enough is enough.
Courtney has litle impact on the games so far. I know he is suppsoe to be complimentary player, but he has done little to earn his spot, especially with the slump we are in.
nyknickzingis wrote:Really need to give Horny a younger athletic team next year around KP and the lottery pick and see what he shows as a coach, I sense the vets have all turned on the coaching staff. Feel for Horny, he's a good guy and a good coach. He's calm, cool and collected. What you want in a head coach. Wish the vets like Lee, Rose, Melo all bought in and comitted but they haven't. Noah is the only who plays with any passion of the vets and like he follows the coaching plans.
Yeah. This bullshit has gone on for way too long and may be the lynchpin of a lot of problems. sabotaging the coaching staff is bloodsport for the athletes and a cohort of the fan base. We bring in one exceptional coach after another and allow the prima donna millionaires to ignore and abuse them. there's nothing wrong with Hornacek's coaching or Rambis or any one else here in the organization. Dolan and Phil hire the best in the business.
The kids on this team get it. Go out and execute. Go out and improve your game.
When I'm watching the vets blow 20ish point leads game after game I can't help but think they're either throwing the game or just to damned stupid to be on this team. Season after season its the same old crap - interchangeable incompetent players. The D'antoni years being the exception [Woodson inherited the tail end of that inertia].
Stop blaming coaches and administrators. Move Lee and Jennings as a minimum - doesn't matter what comes back. Move Rose to 6th man. Move Noah to the bench. [until they get the relationship between playing a whole game and winning].
JesseDark wrote:Courtney has litle impact on the games so far. I know he is suppsoe to be complimentary player, but he has done little to earn his spot, especially with the slump we are in.
Exactly. He needs to put on his big boy pants and play like he can and like he's paid to play. The booing is God's way of giving him a hint.
Rose 6 TO's, Melo 5 TO's, Jennings 2 TO's. The minutes that Jennings is playing are killing the team. He's not bringing the leadership off the bench this team needs. This team simply can't win if the vets aren't performing at acceptable levels. These close losses are all about execution!!! Poor execution has been the kiss of death for this team in a lot of these inexcusable losses to teams they should've beaten. This team is UNDERPERFORMING IMO. That is on the shoulders of the VETS like Lee who should look in the mirror.
nixluva wrote:Rose 6 TO's, Melo 5 TO's, Jennings 2 TO's. The minutes that Jennings is playing are killing the team. He's not bringing the leadership off the bench this team needs. This team simply can't win if the vets aren't performing at acceptable levels. These close losses are all about execution!!! Poor execution has been the kiss of death for this team in a lot of these inexcusable losses to teams they should've beaten. This team is UNDERPERFORMING IMO. That is on the shoulders of the VETS like Lee who should look in the mirror.
I've said this so many time this season: I've never seen a team pass the ball directly to the opponent as much as I have seen it from the Knicks this year. I don't know WTF is up with that. And the stupid TO's that Jennings and Rose have are unfathomable from PGs. Incredibly so.
martin wrote:nixluva wrote:Rose 6 TO's, Melo 5 TO's, Jennings 2 TO's. The minutes that Jennings is playing are killing the team. He's not bringing the leadership off the bench this team needs. This team simply can't win if the vets aren't performing at acceptable levels. These close losses are all about execution!!! Poor execution has been the kiss of death for this team in a lot of these inexcusable losses to teams they should've beaten. This team is UNDERPERFORMING IMO. That is on the shoulders of the VETS like Lee who should look in the mirror.
I've said this so many time this season: I've never seen a team pass the ball directly to the opponent as much as I have seen it from the Knicks this year. I don't know WTF is up with that. And the stupid TO's that Jennings and Rose have are unfathomable from PGs. Incredibly so.
Yes. Totally bizarre plays. This isn't the CYO league.
nixluva wrote:Rose 6 TO's, Melo 5 TO's, Jennings 2 TO's. The minutes that Jennings is playing are killing the team. He's not bringing the leadership off the bench this team needs. This team simply can't win if the vets aren't performing at acceptable levels. These close losses are all about execution!!! Poor execution has been the kiss of death for this team in a lot of these inexcusable losses to teams they should've beaten. This team is UNDERPERFORMING IMO. That is on the shoulders of the VETS like Lee who should look in the mirror.
Let me add this too. A lot of these players wrap themselves up in "Jesus" as if its an innoculation from being a responsible professional. Disrespecting coaches is not Christianity. Taking the money and giving no effort is not Christianity. Giving the fans less than 100% is not professional.
For the money they are making, if the coach says jump this high - Jesus will help you jump that high. And Christianity knows all about Triangles.
Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:callmened wrote:nixluva wrote:At this point none of this side drama matters to me anymore. We still have KP and other young players!!! We still have our draft picks!!! IF any of these vets don't like it here they can be traded at their own request. I want guys that want to be here and do whatever is needed for the team!!!
i love your optimism nixluva. yes we have our draft picks and KP but...
the reality is this team is a joke and an embarrassment. no not because of their poor record but because of the DRAMA that always FOLLOWS this organization.
Yeah, it's not the kind of environment I'd want to stay in longer than I had to if I were KP. Phil and Dolan need to turn this around by the time he's an FA.
If he learned anything from Melo he won't be passing on the money the Knicks dish out. I'm not worried about KP. The guy is about basketball and being humble.
Wouldn't that mean he'd rather be part of an organization he was proud of than chase dollars?
New CBA will compensate him well. That's what I mean they want stars to stick with their teams that is the agenda now in the NBA.
Honestly, my main hope with Phil Jackson was that he'd finally establish a professional culture around the team- this year that's come completely undone
smackeddog wrote:Honestly, my main hope with Phil Jackson was that he'd finally establish a professional culture around the team- this year that's come completely undone
We see this happen just about every 3 to 4 years regardless of the front office, coaches, or players on the court... So is it the fans and media impatience, expectations, the pressure of NY, that plays a role in the outcome of these teams...
holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:Honestly, my main hope with Phil Jackson was that he'd finally establish a professional culture around the team- this year that's come completely undone
We see this happen just about every 3 to 4 years regardless of the front office, coaches, or players on the court... So is it the fans and media impatience, expectations, the pressure of NY, that plays a role in the outcome of these teams...
No, it's the people constructing the rosters. During Dolan's 16 years, which ones were in that "professional culture every 3 or 4 years" group?
holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:Honestly, my main hope with Phil Jackson was that he'd finally establish a professional culture around the team- this year that's come completely undone
We see this happen just about every 3 to 4 years regardless of the front office, coaches, or players on the court... So is it the fans and media impatience, expectations, the pressure of NY, that plays a role in the outcome of these teams...
I think it is the media. I still think Phil wasn't given high picks to choose from he really has one draft since his time here. That turned out to be KP. I feel he needs this draft more than anything for stability to take place.
The media love chaos it sells papers and right now I don't feel it's as bad as people are making it out to be. Rose going awol or Melo with his contract team losing. The losing is not so important because it is what it is. I refuse to blame the coaches there have been plenty that have been run out of town. We should not fall for that again and again.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:Honestly, my main hope with Phil Jackson was that he'd finally establish a professional culture around the team- this year that's come completely undone
We see this happen just about every 3 to 4 years regardless of the front office, coaches, or players on the court... So is it the fans and media impatience, expectations, the pressure of NY, that plays a role in the outcome of these teams...
No, it's the people constructing the rosters. During Dolan's 16 years, which ones were in that "professional culture every 3 or 4 years" group?
Well the fans are unrealistic and so is the media...The team is 18-23 and they all behave like it's the end of the world...This bleeds over into the organization and on the team..They aren't blind, they read the papers, get asked the questions and listen to the commentary..This pressure affects them...
Phil is a professional..Donnie was a professional...Grunwald was a professional..
CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:There are not too many players that would endorse a move to the bench, unless they're on the floor in crunch time. Thats what JVG did with Spreewell his 1st season. Spree wasnt happy at all, but at the end of the day, he was like 3rd on the team in minutes played that yr.as long as Rambis is part of that coaching staff were doomed
Agree on Rambis.
Rambis is the weakest link.
How come that pressure didn't effect Ewing? Sprewell, Camby? Jason Kidd? It didn't effect even the bums like Othello, Eisley and Shandon....
We have Rose, Courtney Lee, Joakim Noah, Melo and a bunch of hardworkinh pros behind them.... I would have never thought we would have problems with this group to this degree. Growing pains yes.... but this? Its insane. They want the fans to be cool but we are. We're just done. It's like come on. Play the game and stop worrying about us.
CrushAlot wrote:I think it is Rambis and Jeff. Also, Hornacek made a point of saying he wanted a Rambis like presence in the line up when he put Baker in.
I think it's JH and Burgandy. The guy who took him out of the starting lineup (JH) and the guy he replaced him with (RB).
Lee should stop posting stupid things and instead work on fixing the problems he is having on the court. His D has been awful and he aberages 9 points a game. Not exactly missing much with him out of the game.
knicks1248 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:EnySpree wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If it's about the Knicks benching him definitely Jeff and Kurt.
It think it's clearly a jab and Jeff and Kurt... characters look similar and ask the players have been critical of the defense. The players are out there so they need to execute. Sucks that we have to go through this again
Well it shows you how dumb Lee is if it's a jab he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end.... he should really be disappointed with himself for his lack of production.... he always has been a solid bench guy not a starter... baker is the better all around player and it showed today.
Idk, why is it that every decent solid defender that comes to the knicks turns into a less than an avg defender. Even galloway and Lopez started out good and became bad real fast, Now they are both back to being solid.
Rose was never a good defender, but at no point on the Bulls was he this laid back on D.
cleaarly this is About JH and Rambis..JH has already had players throw towels at him, and no one knows wtf rambis is doing but phil
I think we should stop the switching on defense and from what i see is that when we do switch is when one or two of our guys end up losing a player to defend cause they both stay with one guy so the other one ends up standing wide open somewhere so our on court communication with each other needs to get better or just stop switching and everyone stays with their man.
