It's not going to get better with Melo here. For next season we shouldn't be looking to get pieces to help him win like we did last off season. We should be trying to add to the youth we have.
We need to make our draft pick as high as possible. We need to use Melo to aquire another pick.we need Melo to give us another young player for the nucleus. We need the cap space.
He's not the only one. Courtney Lee and Noah need to go as well. Both players are guts you bring in ti top off a team. They have no use for us but they could be valuable to another team. They should be able to tack on more youth and possibly cap relief.
Rose is on the bubble too. His contract and his production make him super valuable on the trade market. Any disgruntled point guards out there? Yes there are.
The Knicks don't have to tank... making trades could actually make them win again. Depends on what they try to do.
Rose for Dragic....
Rose for Brandon Knight....
Maybe try to pry away Tyler Ennis from Houston or some other young pg.
Trade Melo to Boston for Brooklyn 1st rounder, Jaylen Brown, Jerebko and Amir
Trade Melo in a 3 team trade to the clips or the Bulls.
Trade Noah to Boston for whatever.
Trade Noah to San Antonio to replace Gasol.
The Knicks gotta make something happen
I don't think people see it.
The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Panic?
Look, I was against Phil's off seasons moves - I thought they were a sign of going all in.
First - I guarantee you that management is not thinking this. We've lost some close, heart wrenching games.
So, they are thinking we can get this turned around.
Second- trading Melo doesn't help. We're not getting anything good back or even decent. And even losing franchises need talent to help them win a few games.
Third - I will grant you this - that they better not ink Rose to any kind of extension. We may be close to turning it around- but the fact is, Phil & the FO have to be realistic about where we are in our development - and they have to own up to Noah being an absolute bust & that trading Rose is our best bet.
And getting someone like Dragic - which I would do- certainly freezes out salary flexibility in the future and can still be perceived as a win now move- but it's still about adding pieces that fit better together and can grow.
Why do we need Dragic? He is no cornerstone. The Heat suck even worse than we do.
I think we either trade Melo for the nets' first rounder from Boston, or if the Celts are not so stupid, keep Melo, try to move Lee or Noah to clear some more cap space, and go after CP in the offseason. High risk move that can screw us for years, or net us two chips in the next two seasons.
TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Zinger will go but KP will stay.
franco12 wrote:Panic?Look, I was against Phil's off seasons moves - I thought they were a sign of going all in.
First - I guarantee you that management is not thinking this. We've lost some close, heart wrenching games.
So, they are thinking we can get this turned around.
Second- trading Melo doesn't help. We're not getting anything good back or even decent. And even losing franchises need talent to help them win a few games.
Third - I will grant you this - that they better not ink Rose to any kind of extension. We may be close to turning it around- but the fact is, Phil & the FO have to be realistic about where we are in our development - and they have to own up to Noah being an absolute bust & that trading Rose is our best bet.
And getting someone like Dragic - which I would do- certainly freezes out salary flexibility in the future and can still be perceived as a win now move- but it's still about adding pieces that fit better together and can grow.
I think it's funny to hear any of you say Noah is a absolute bust. The guy had 15 rebounds in 20 minutes last night and that's an absolute bust?? lol. Come on now. Did we give him too many years at 4? Yes we did but he's in no way an absolute bust and anyone that says that doesn't really know what they're talking about and think they're letting their anger towards the losing cloud their judgment. I'm pretty sure the main thing you want from your center is rebounds if i remember correctly and anyone that didn't know that Noah wasn't really an offensive guy when we got him needs to come back to reality. I'd love if we were getting more from Noah on the offensive end but we're not and i'd love to be able to trade him as well but that will be tough. Not impossible but tough.
Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Is the stretch provision in place for new contracts? Also, I think Lee has a very good contract. He took less to play for the Knicks. If the Knicks want to move him I think they would find a market. Noah's deal would be very hard to move. You would have to give up something or take back a player/contract that has similar issues.
CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Is the stretch provision in place for new contracts? Also, I think Lee has a very good contract. He took less to play for the Knicks. If the Knicks want to move him I think they would find a market. Noah's deal would be very hard to move. You would have to give up something or take back a player/contract that has similar issues.
the noah contract is really bad. Ive said many times that a 2 year deal would have been the best way to go even struggling the way he has
The alternative facts would suggest that we're actually doing well, and are poised to make a strong championship run come April
CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Is the stretch provision in place for new contracts? Also, I think Lee has a very good contract. He took less to play for the Knicks. If the Knicks want to move him I think they would find a market. Noah's deal would be very hard to move. You would have to give up something or take back a player/contract that has similar issues.
Noah's contract was signed before the new CBA, so it would definitely be eligible for the stretch provision. Contracts signed 2017 and beyond, I'm not sure.
StarksEwing1 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Is the stretch provision in place for new contracts? Also, I think Lee has a very good contract. He took less to play for the Knicks. If the Knicks want to move him I think they would find a market. Noah's deal would be very hard to move. You would have to give up something or take back a player/contract that has similar issues.
the noah contract is really bad. Ive said many times that a 2 year deal would have been the best way to go even struggling the way he has
Ok that is a good thing. I don't see them stretching him until Phil leaves though. He isn't quick to admit mistakes (except with Jerian).
Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Melohate bleeds over onto the unicorn. Trade Porzingis. Classic.
smackeddog wrote:The alternative facts would suggest that we're actually doing well, and are poised to make a strong championship run come April
Alternate facts say we are doing quite well..Touché
Knixkik wrote: If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Cap projections
• 2018-19 salary cap and luxury tax: $108 million/$130 million
• 2019-20 salary cap and luxury tax: $109 million/$132 million
• 2020-21 salary cap and luxury tax: $114 million/$139 million
Using the Stretch on Noah would lock in this years cap hit, but spread out the remaining years at a rate of X 2 Plus 1
That means the Knicks would have to eat a close to 8 million cap hit for the NEXT SEVEN YEARS after this one. That's the what 2027-2028 season that his contract will finally be clear.
When you start progressively bleeding out assets and flexibility into the far future, is exactly one of the reasons the Knicks are in the situation that they are in now...
Noah and Lee signed here because this was the team that offered them the most years and most money compared to anyone else. That's it. The reason why those other teams didn't sign them to these kinds of contracts are the same reasons why those teams, most of them, tend to win, and the Knicks tend to lose.
jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Melohate bleeds over onto the unicorn. Trade Porzingis. Classic.
Should be documented as the first sign of a Kristaps hater.
TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Lee is a high quality role player, a decent defender and one of the best shooters in the league. He's on a good deal, he took less money than he could have gotten to play here. In the dreaded year 3 and 4 of Lee's contract his salary will be about a 10th of the cap. He's is easily movable, the only question is if management is gonna tear this thing down or not.
Noah's contract is only a problem if we're not going the rebuild route. If we are then we dont really have to worry about the cap for a few years and we'll have to pay somebody. He comes off the books right when we'd have to pay KP anyway.
TripleThreat wrote:Knixkik wrote: If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Cap projections
• 2018-19 salary cap and luxury tax: $108 million/$130 million
• 2019-20 salary cap and luxury tax: $109 million/$132 million
• 2020-21 salary cap and luxury tax: $114 million/$139 million
Using the Stretch on Noah would lock in this years cap hit, but spread out the remaining years at a rate of X 2 Plus 1
That means the Knicks would have to eat a close to 8 million cap hit for the NEXT SEVEN YEARS after this one. That's the what 2027-2028 season that his contract will finally be clear.
When you start progressively bleeding out assets and flexibility into the far future, is exactly one of the reasons the Knicks are in the situation that they are in now...
Noah and Lee signed here because this was the team that offered them the most years and most money compared to anyone else. That's it. The reason why those other teams didn't sign them to these kinds of contracts are the same reasons why those teams, most of them, tend to win, and the Knicks tend to lose.
Agreed on all accounts. Stretching Noah would just compound the problem.
EnySpree wrote:jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Melohate bleeds over onto the unicorn. Trade Porzingis. Classic.
Should be documented as the first sign of a Kristaps hater.
Or that Melohate inoculations should finally be provided free by TrumpCare. 
Before it's too late.
EnySpree wrote:jrodmc wrote:Knixkik wrote:TripleThreat wrote:I don't think people see it. The Lee and Noah contracts are bad. They will cripple the Knicks in Years 3 and 4. If you want to move Lee, you need to move him this deadline, if you can.
Like Greg Monroe did, Zinger can leave after his 5th year. He'd have to leave money and guaranteed years on the table, but after 4 years of losing with Noah and Lee and what's left of Melo, why would he stay?
Melo is going nowhere, unless it's for pennies on the dollar and the Knicks take bad contracts back to make the salaries match.
Melo, even if he would waive his NTC, could not be packaged with Noah, the cap hit to the other team would be too extreme in any trade.
The only way to get rid of Noah is to package him with Zinger. The Knicks best trade asset is Zinger.
Zinger is the only thing the Knicks have that any other team wants. If they don't trade Zinger at some point, he will likely leave after his 5th year here. Jackson signed Lee and Noah to long deals because he knew he would not be here for those brutal 3rd and 4th years.
Teams will want Zinger. Or Melo for close to nothing. And that's it. Jackson screwed this team up royally for the next 3 and a half years.
Porzingis will never leave. If knicks want Noah gone they can just use the stretch provision on his contract and he's gone. Easy problem to solve.
Also, I hear porzingis HATES the nickname Zinger.
Melohate bleeds over onto the unicorn. Trade Porzingis. Classic.
Should be documented as the first sign of a Kristaps hater.
Yeah, it will only get worse from here. Ewing then Melo and soon KP. Knicks fans love to hate their best players.
