Knicks · Enough w the melatio (page 1)

Guy plays out of his mind in first half. 20 in first hlf

7-8 turnovers. No D

We have to mix this up. Either trade Melo or trade everyone else

Chandler wrote:Guy plays out of his mind in first half. 20 in first hlf

7-8 turnovers. No D

We have to mix this up. Either trade Melo or trade everyone else

His defense was pretty good tonight and has been trending upward lately. He was late getting out 2-3 times but I only remember them connecting on 1 of them.

Tonight's defense was all on the pgs, Noah, and KP.

I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

The problem is that Phil does not know how to build a team. He also seems to pick players based on reputations and not actual performance and ability.

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

Good take.

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem is that Phil does not know how to build a team. He also seems to pick players based on reputations and not actual performance and ability.

Mindy, Willy, KP, and KOQ were all starphucks? Phil is trying to move to team ball, which is very hard when you have ISO guys running the show.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

The problem is that Phil does not know how to build a team. He also seems to pick players based on reputations and not actual performance and ability.

I don't agree with this at all. You need to consider the context and what he's been dealing with. there is absolutely nothing wrong in the real world with frequent tear downs, and cutting loses early. That's the way business works. The trick is judging whether something is a loss or whether it's still a good investment but just needs time. Asking for perfection on every deal is crazy

He is trying to build a system and an institution here, much like SAS have one, the Lakers and the Celts. Those teams if they go down, don't stay down for long because they have a clue.

Take a look at the other top teams in recent years. GS built through draft and long history of misery. They had some brains at the top Jerry West, but still the nads to fire a coach after a winning season

I was one of Melo's biggest supporters... I would rather be a year early than a year late in getting rid of Melo. We've always collectively doubted his conditioning... fitness freaks like Ray Allen are the ones that last a long time, not guys who never lost their baby fat

Chandler wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

The problem is that Phil does not know how to build a team. He also seems to pick players based on reputations and not actual performance and ability.

I don't agree with this at all. You need to consider the context and what he's been dealing with. there is absolutely nothing wrong in the real world with frequent tear downs, and cutting loses early. That's the way business works. The trick is judging whether something is a loss or whether it's still a good investment but just needs time. Asking for perfection on every deal is crazy

He is trying to build a system and an institution here, much like SAS have one, the Lakers and the Celts. Those teams if they go down, don't stay down for long because they have a clue.

Take a look at the other top teams in recent years. GS built through draft and long history of misery. They had some brains at the top Jerry West, but still the nads to fire a coach after a winning season

Phil seemed to be going in the right direction until Rose/Noah. It looks like he's trying to steer the ship back to the course he was on, the course he said he wanted to take after drafting KP.

Chandler wrote:Guy plays out of his mind in first half. 20 in first hlf

7-8 turnovers. No D

We have to mix this up. Either trade Melo or trade everyone else

It's Rose or Melo or both. Both would be the best move. If i had to chose which one i'd rather have on the team because of their on court play it would be Melo but if i was choosing between the two with the whole picture in mind i'd chose Rose because of contracts which Rose will be done at the end of this season and Melo is locked in for two more years after this year so we could trade Melo and let Rose walk after the season which would leave us with a ton of cap space.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Chandler wrote:Guy plays out of his mind in first half. 20 in first hlf

7-8 turnovers. No D

We have to mix this up. Either trade Melo or trade everyone else

It's Rose or Melo or both. Both would be the best move. If i had to chose which one i'd rather have on the team because of their on court play it would be Melo but if i was choosing between the two with the whole picture in mind i'd chose Rose because of contracts which Rose will be done at the end of this season and Melo is locked in for two more years after this year so we could trade Melo and let Rose walk after the season which would leave us with a ton of cap space.

both for me, with the caveat being if another team doesn't give value for Rose I'd rather let his deal expire

GustavBahler wrote:

Chandler wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Chandler wrote:I thought KP had a poor defensive game.

Melo was -15. Not sure I'd say his defense was ok. Regardless the fact that he shot so well and yet was -15 shows it's not working. He had 20 in first half. Should have been a laugher

But that twenty in the first half was the only thing that kept them in the game. KP was instantly in foul trouble. Lee had a good shooting game. Willy was ok. Not much else stands out to me a day later.

He shot fantstic. And therein lies the rub. Guy scored on efficient shooting. Team was desperate for a win. We should have been up a lot but we weren't.

Message being Melo scoring (even when done well) isn't the fix for this team. Team is broken and needs to decide what to do. It's completely unrealistic to think we will surround him with players that are that much better than current roster. Where will all this talent come from? Even w cap space, who wants to come here to fundamentally change things in Melos time frame? Our only game changing trade asset would be KP and trading him would be dumb dumb dumb

Our other approach is to recognize current situation and build around KP w younger talent and picks

The problem is that Phil does not know how to build a team. He also seems to pick players based on reputations and not actual performance and ability.

I don't agree with this at all. You need to consider the context and what he's been dealing with. there is absolutely nothing wrong in the real world with frequent tear downs, and cutting loses early. That's the way business works. The trick is judging whether something is a loss or whether it's still a good investment but just needs time. Asking for perfection on every deal is crazy

He is trying to build a system and an institution here, much like SAS have one, the Lakers and the Celts. Those teams if they go down, don't stay down for long because they have a clue.

Take a look at the other top teams in recent years. GS built through draft and long history of misery. They had some brains at the top Jerry West, but still the nads to fire a coach after a winning season

Phil seemed to be going in the right direction until Rose/Noah. It looks like he's trying to steer the ship back to the course he was on, the course he said he wanted to take after drafting KP.

Fair point. But again back to context. We had Calderon and that was painful. No one thought Rose was even available. To me it was a calculated risk. Same with Noah. For Rose, you have to give credit that to extent they gambled on his health and athleticism that they calculated correctly. He is performing well in that department. In terms of team fit that's another story. Personally I think if he simply drove to the front of the rim this would be a different season. He would draw more fouls (THE by far most efficient way to score, and the best way to set up transition D), and his current attacks when they miss (and when he flops to floor or continues out of bounds) lead to fast breaks the other way. I'd like to think this is correctable

Phil gave Melo the NTC knowing Melo wanted to stay in NY and would get more money with the knicks. Phil wanted Calderon(non-defensive Pg) and insisted on including Felton which brought down the value of Chandler. The same Chandler who Cuban coveted and publicly let it be known that he would want him back and never should have traded him the season prior. Phil went after a aging non-defensive two guard(AA) who doesn't move the ball or rebound and a score 1st back up SF(DW) who doesn't play defense. Hid did bring in Lopez which was good and on a value contract. He also brought in KO'Q which was another great move but reportedly had to be save from himself when he was trying to pkg Kyle with Jose to get out from Calderon's contract. You know the same contract the Bulls dumped for peanuts.

So he cleared the deck with the 1 yr rentals and traded for a for another non defensive PG but to make it worst this pg is really a SG who doesn't shoot or really plays in the team concept. That's okay because this time he pairs him with a wiley Veteran Sg who doesn't rebound or pass that much and is no longer the defensive player he used to be but this time lets give him 4yrs on his deal. The team needs a new center since they wasted Lopez on Rose so lets bring in another aging vet who has lost a step on D and provides zero offense. Let's give him $18m and 4yrs to make sure no one else gets him. lol.

Back to Rose:

When rumors started about Rose being available in trades there were some who knew how bad he was and even questioned that he would be worst than Calderon but those posters were mocked. Some said that the only way it would make since is if they include a 1st rd pick and the knicks just slide him in the salary cap after all there were only a few teams that could go after Rose but once again Phil bids against himself a continuing trend. Rose was a failed experiment from the start that wasted a decent asset possibly only to end up having to do another Lance Thomas deal with Holiday who you have to hope wasn't a one hit wonder.

I have had enough with Phil