Knicks · The Politics of Moving Melo (page 2)
holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:holfresh wrote:stanleybostitch wrote:holfresh wrote:...Phil has revamped the team three consecutive years..That's not building anything..All his moves are hedged it seems... I'm surprised the media has been so quiet about his moves thus far..But I just started to hear rumblings today on talk radio...But we will see...I really didn't expect much anyway, in that manner at least, Phil has delivered...Phil got us KP.
Phil got us Willy.
Phil got us Mindy.
Phil got us KOQ.
Phil got us all our picks.That's four quality young players on great deals who will form our future nucleus (with KOQ a great chip to get a wing if needed). That's picks. We have started to build the GS way. If folks want to play into the Melo saga and blame Phil go ahead but it's all BS and not rooted in what is really transpiring here, which is the move away from ISO non-team ball and towards fun, fast, and efficient team ball.
So in your estimation those picks will be a core for a playoff team?.. Without breaking down each player positives or negatives..None of these players are good defenders...So unless they turn into offensive machines, where are we really??..But I think KP will be solid and Willy will be a good pro..Game Changers? eh...
The upcoming picks - yes, if Phil continues to draft well, which he has, then yes they will likely be part of the core of a sustained playoff team. Not a one-and-done team.
That can be said about anyone..As long as you draft well you can have a sustained playoff team..Three years into Phil Jackson's tenure, we have a lottery team. If the proposed trade with the Clippers is made, two years from now we will have a lottery team...So the high praise of Phil Jackson's efforts escapes me...He has made horrible trades where we never get equal value back in anything...
http://projects.newsday.com/sports/baske...
Look at what he has done since he has been here...
You are looking at the GS model and thinking that can be you..Sacramento is just down the road from ...To be fair - it wasn't Phil's fault they didn't have first round picks in 2014 and 2016. Previous administrations F***ed him.
Let's be honest here as well, Phil went into each season thinking he had assembled a playoff team...Phil was never trying to rebuild thru the draft...He hedged and left himself an escape valve which has cost us in trades and will likely cost us again....
We don't know if it's an escape valve. It'd be hilarious if Phil arranged a trade and went to Melo and Melo was like "nah, I'm good. I wanna stay."
And not too many people on this board would accuse me of giving Phil extra credit. I've made my feelings clear on him for a while now.
Knixkik wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:We aren't really forcing melo out. We are allowing him an opportunity to compete where we have failed. In the NBA, 99.9% of players change teams at some point. Everyone in the league can see a knicks and melo separation is probably best for everyone. That won't change any perception of the knicks. Change is constant. The knicks and melo tried to make it work. KP has basically given the knicks the excuse to move in a new direction and everyone knows that's just the business of the NBA.Melo has become a bit of an ambassador for the nba. Phil's handling of this certainly can't help his cause with other players/agents.+1 - the abuse he took and our inability to construct a decent roster at any point won't bode well in the future. People don't wanna deal with this here. Players like the KD setup where they receive zero challenge. This will bury the franchise.
Any concerns will become a distant memory very quick. Players won't even think twice about the melo era.
Going to have to agree to disagree. NY isn't a desirable place to play these days unless we over pay. Hard for me to invision anybody signing up. The Melo situation will be remembered by players currently in the league IMO as another reason to stay away.
SwishAndDish13 wrote:Knixkik wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Knixkik wrote:We aren't really forcing melo out. We are allowing him an opportunity to compete where we have failed. In the NBA, 99.9% of players change teams at some point. Everyone in the league can see a knicks and melo separation is probably best for everyone. That won't change any perception of the knicks. Change is constant. The knicks and melo tried to make it work. KP has basically given the knicks the excuse to move in a new direction and everyone knows that's just the business of the NBA.Melo has become a bit of an ambassador for the nba. Phil's handling of this certainly can't help his cause with other players/agents.+1 - the abuse he took and our inability to construct a decent roster at any point won't bode well in the future. People don't wanna deal with this here. Players like the KD setup where they receive zero challenge. This will bury the franchise.
Any concerns will become a distant memory very quick. Players won't even think twice about the melo era.
Going to have to agree to disagree. NY isn't a desirable place to play these days unless we over pay. Hard for me to invision anybody signing up. The Melo situation will be remembered by players currently in the league IMO as another reason to stay away.
I think it's a fair concern, i don't disagree. I just think things are forgotten quickly, and the business of the NBA is understood. I also think despite Miami screwing over Wade way worse, it will be forgotten there too. We might not land elite free agents, but i think the main reason is elite free agents will rarely be on the move. But for the rest of the free agents, NY will always be a consideration. NY survived the mid 2000s, which was way worse, and were still a destination guys looked at.
...It is reprehensible that the highest ranking official picks a public fight with the best player. Where else does that take place? Where else is that behavior tolerated?And while it’s common for the biggest diva in any organization to be the star player, it’s highly unusual for the team president to be the diva with an attitude. Jackson has more misses than hits yet he’s using Anthony as the scapegoat for all that ails the Knicks. Maybe it’s working. Anthony heard some boos on Friday.
....
Any executive worth his salt goes out of his way to protect his best player. But not at the Garden. Jackson caused the trouble and then leaves Anthony to answer for it.For a guy who couldn’t land a free agent meeting with Kevin Durant and then insulted LeBron James with his silly entourage quote, Jackson may want to reconsider the way he treats star players. Word travels fast in the NBA.
Frank Isola might not have direct access to the Knicks but he is connected enough around the league to know how people feel. And when I read this article, I got the sense that he was not only talking on behalf of himself but others as well. It comes as no surprise that this was also published today....
Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks.“I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what's in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don't have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it's Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan's culture there.”
While slamming Dolan as the “constant” in the Knicks “chaos,” Woj also ripped Jackson, now in his third season as GM.
“That's what's been the constant, that the level of chaos that's gone on there, the constant's been the owner. So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”
This Melodrama stuff certainly isn't helping Melo or us. He'll be gone, helping bolster a contender while we will languish even if we hit on another pick due to how poorly we treat players.
NardDogNation wrote:It seems that my concerns might have some substance......It is reprehensible that the highest ranking official picks a public fight with the best player. Where else does that take place? Where else is that behavior tolerated?And while it’s common for the biggest diva in any organization to be the star player, it’s highly unusual for the team president to be the diva with an attitude. Jackson has more misses than hits yet he’s using Anthony as the scapegoat for all that ails the Knicks. Maybe it’s working. Anthony heard some boos on Friday.
....
Any executive worth his salt goes out of his way to protect his best player. But not at the Garden. Jackson caused the trouble and then leaves Anthony to answer for it.For a guy who couldn’t land a free agent meeting with Kevin Durant and then insulted LeBron James with his silly entourage quote, Jackson may want to reconsider the way he treats star players. Word travels fast in the NBA.
Frank Isola might not have direct access to the Knicks but he is connected enough around the league to know how people feel. And when I read this article, I got the sense that he was not only talking on behalf of himself but others as well. It comes as no surprise that this was also published today....
Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks.“I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what's in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don't have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it's Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan's culture there.”
While slamming Dolan as the “constant” in the Knicks “chaos,” Woj also ripped Jackson, now in his third season as GM.
“That's what's been the constant, that the level of chaos that's gone on there, the constant's been the owner. So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This Melodrama stuff certainly isn't helping Melo or us. He'll be gone, helping bolster a contender while we will languish even if we hit on another pick due to how poorly we treat players.
Yep - agree completely. I've been saying the same stuff for a while now about Dolan's culture, Jackson, particularly this part:
So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”
This isn't a quick fix and trading Melo is not the cure all. Jackson's handling of this situation is borderline unprofessional.
crzymdups wrote:NardDogNation wrote:It seems that my concerns might have some substance......It is reprehensible that the highest ranking official picks a public fight with the best player. Where else does that take place? Where else is that behavior tolerated?And while it’s common for the biggest diva in any organization to be the star player, it’s highly unusual for the team president to be the diva with an attitude. Jackson has more misses than hits yet he’s using Anthony as the scapegoat for all that ails the Knicks. Maybe it’s working. Anthony heard some boos on Friday.
....
Any executive worth his salt goes out of his way to protect his best player. But not at the Garden. Jackson caused the trouble and then leaves Anthony to answer for it.For a guy who couldn’t land a free agent meeting with Kevin Durant and then insulted LeBron James with his silly entourage quote, Jackson may want to reconsider the way he treats star players. Word travels fast in the NBA.
Frank Isola might not have direct access to the Knicks but he is connected enough around the league to know how people feel. And when I read this article, I got the sense that he was not only talking on behalf of himself but others as well. It comes as no surprise that this was also published today....
Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks.“I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what's in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don't have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it's Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan's culture there.”
While slamming Dolan as the “constant” in the Knicks “chaos,” Woj also ripped Jackson, now in his third season as GM.
“That's what's been the constant, that the level of chaos that's gone on there, the constant's been the owner. So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This Melodrama stuff certainly isn't helping Melo or us. He'll be gone, helping bolster a contender while we will languish even if we hit on another pick due to how poorly we treat players.
Yep - agree completely. I've been saying the same stuff for a while now about Dolan's culture, Jackson, particularly this part:
So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This isn't a quick fix and trading Melo is not the cure all. Jackson's handling of this situation is borderline unprofessional.
I think it's downright unprofessional and hope we kick Jackson to the curb and hire Sam Hinkie. #TrustTheProcess
crzymdups wrote:He certainly looks really bad. I try to give guys the benefit of the doubt until I hear or see them say something in an interview. But the Rosen stuff was bad. The fact that Chris Mannix referred to Rosen as Phil's ghost writer says a lot. Phil's earlier criticism of Melo in an interview did not bother me much. The interviews asked him direct questions about Melo and he responded. It wasn't the best way to answer their questions but at least there was context for why it happened.NardDogNation wrote:It seems that my concerns might have some substance......It is reprehensible that the highest ranking official picks a public fight with the best player. Where else does that take place? Where else is that behavior tolerated?And while it’s common for the biggest diva in any organization to be the star player, it’s highly unusual for the team president to be the diva with an attitude. Jackson has more misses than hits yet he’s using Anthony as the scapegoat for all that ails the Knicks. Maybe it’s working. Anthony heard some boos on Friday.
....
Any executive worth his salt goes out of his way to protect his best player. But not at the Garden. Jackson caused the trouble and then leaves Anthony to answer for it.For a guy who couldn’t land a free agent meeting with Kevin Durant and then insulted LeBron James with his silly entourage quote, Jackson may want to reconsider the way he treats star players. Word travels fast in the NBA.
Frank Isola might not have direct access to the Knicks but he is connected enough around the league to know how people feel. And when I read this article, I got the sense that he was not only talking on behalf of himself but others as well. It comes as no surprise that this was also published today....
Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks.“I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what's in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don't have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it's Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan's culture there.”
While slamming Dolan as the “constant” in the Knicks “chaos,” Woj also ripped Jackson, now in his third season as GM.
“That's what's been the constant, that the level of chaos that's gone on there, the constant's been the owner. So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This Melodrama stuff certainly isn't helping Melo or us. He'll be gone, helping bolster a contender while we will languish even if we hit on another pick due to how poorly we treat players.
Yep - agree completely. I've been saying the same stuff for a while now about Dolan's culture, Jackson, particularly this part:
So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This isn't a quick fix and trading Melo is not the cure all. Jackson's handling of this situation is borderline unprofessional.
NardDogNation wrote:crzymdups wrote:NardDogNation wrote:It seems that my concerns might have some substance......It is reprehensible that the highest ranking official picks a public fight with the best player. Where else does that take place? Where else is that behavior tolerated?And while it’s common for the biggest diva in any organization to be the star player, it’s highly unusual for the team president to be the diva with an attitude. Jackson has more misses than hits yet he’s using Anthony as the scapegoat for all that ails the Knicks. Maybe it’s working. Anthony heard some boos on Friday.
....
Any executive worth his salt goes out of his way to protect his best player. But not at the Garden. Jackson caused the trouble and then leaves Anthony to answer for it.For a guy who couldn’t land a free agent meeting with Kevin Durant and then insulted LeBron James with his silly entourage quote, Jackson may want to reconsider the way he treats star players. Word travels fast in the NBA.
Frank Isola might not have direct access to the Knicks but he is connected enough around the league to know how people feel. And when I read this article, I got the sense that he was not only talking on behalf of himself but others as well. It comes as no surprise that this was also published today....
Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks.“I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what's in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don't have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it's Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan's culture there.”
While slamming Dolan as the “constant” in the Knicks “chaos,” Woj also ripped Jackson, now in his third season as GM.
“That's what's been the constant, that the level of chaos that's gone on there, the constant's been the owner. So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This Melodrama stuff certainly isn't helping Melo or us. He'll be gone, helping bolster a contender while we will languish even if we hit on another pick due to how poorly we treat players.
Yep - agree completely. I've been saying the same stuff for a while now about Dolan's culture, Jackson, particularly this part:
So you're back to, again, Phil Jackson with Jeff Hornack 'Well I want you to run the triangle’ or 'You've got to keep Kurt Rambis who I really wanted as the head coach. He's got to be your defensive coordinator.’”This isn't a quick fix and trading Melo is not the cure all. Jackson's handling of this situation is borderline unprofessional.
I think it's downright unprofessional and hope we kick Jackson to the curb and hire Sam Hinkie. #TrustTheProcess
Oooh... haha, you know, I would not be opposed to Hinkie right now!
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Even executive orders cannnot save the Knicks... from Knicks fans.