Unless we are getting multiple 1st round picks & at least 1 young player with potential (could be Austin Rivers) I'd keep Carmelo. His best position is the 4. But bc we signed Noah we can't play him there as often. We made the mistake trading Ewing for crap, we need to be careful of repeating it. The difference here is that Melo can still play at a very high level, at the 4.
TLover wrote:Unless we are getting multiple 1st round picks & at least 1 young player with potential (could be Austin Rivers) I'd keep Carmelo. His best position is the 4. But bc we signed Noah we can't play him there as often. We made the mistake trading Ewing for crap, we need to be careful of repeating it. The difference here is that Melo can still play at a very high level, at the 4.
Phil is trying to get as much value as he can but even one 1st and maybe an early 2nd rd Pick plus a young player would be good. Rebuilding this team already has core pieces and a trade could accelerate the process!
What Melo's not are a Magic Johnson, Pippin, Barkley, Lebron James, or Draymond Green.
Melo's not a Point-Forward which he tries to perform in every game.
Melo's talents are far from being a PF in small-ball or Big-ball lineups.
Melo's only talent are at the SF position, which he has gotten to old to defend any foward position.
Kemet wrote:What Melo's not are a Magic Johnson, Pippin, Barkley, Lebron James, or Draymond Green.
Melo's not a Point-Forward which he tries to perform in every game.
Melo's talents are far from being a PF in small-ball or Big-ball lineups.
Melo's only talent are at the SF position, which he has gotten to old to defend any foward position.
The Knicks won 54 games and Melo was third in mvp voting when he played the 4.
Kemet wrote:What Melo's not are a Magic Johnson, Pippin, Barkley, Lebron James, or Draymond Green.
Melo's not a Point-Forward which he tries to perform in every game.
Melo's talents are far from being a PF in small-ball or Big-ball lineups.
Melo's only talent are at the SF position, which he has gotten to old to defend any foward position.
Keep proving you watch very few Knick games. What, Melo is no Magic Johnson? Not LBJ? Wow! Great apiphany!
Melo has shown for many years that PF is his best slot.
What about the Knicks? When do we start building for the Knicks?
We need a power fwd that can do more than take advantage offensively. KP is our power fwd. KP is not a center
Melo is a beast at the 4.. he showed that again against Millsap who took his Allstar spot. Keep it going!
TLover wrote:Melo is a beast at the 4.. he showed that again against Millsap who took his Allstar spot. Keep it going!
how did Noah the waste play?
fishmike wrote:TLover wrote:Melo is a beast at the 4.. he showed that again against Millsap who took his Allstar spot. Keep it going!
how did Noah the waste play?
not well enough to make up for how much better Melo plays at PF. I wouldn't call Noah a waste but he's a terrible use of $70 mil cap space. His contract is our worst one now.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:TLover wrote:Melo is a beast at the 4.. he showed that again against Millsap who took his Allstar spot. Keep it going!
how did Noah the waste play?
not well enough to make up for how much better Melo plays at PF. I wouldn't call Noah a waste but he's a terrible use of $70 mil cap space. His contract is our worst one now.
I tend to agree - but we're not getting out from Noah's contract unless his box score lists 14 rebounds. Someone will talk themselves into Noah
Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.
This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
The point is for many years now Melo has been so much better at the 4 (and the team has played so much better with him at the 4) that it outweighs those smaller issues. We have limited cap space. $70 mil on a guy who's just a role player and forces Melo out of his better position doesn't make sense. It's not hindsight. I (and many others) said this right after the signing. Virtually every problem with this team that's been labelled hindsight was predicted.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
Your acting like everyone on here loved the signing, specially the lenght of contract and money. Fact is, many here hated the signing, including myself. And there there was no hindsight needed. Noah was coming off an injury, was a player in decline, didnt fit and was not being played against small line ups in Chicago. Give a guy like that a chance....sure. 17M. for 4 years guaranteed. No way. Time to stop the excuses and admit to the failed signing. Byw there is nothing wrong with fans using hindsight in commenting on a teams failure. They are not the ones being paid loads of money to make those decisions. Phil is the one getting paid and a Hall of fame coach. He doesn't have that luxury. And therefore has no excuse.
The right move was to sign a good veteran backup in case KP, KO or Willy did not pan out. Pachula, Verejeo, Aldrich, Hibbert. All could have been signed for pennies on the Noah dollar.
Made no sense in the off-season either bc Porzingis is the center in the "near" future and Melo is a top 5 power forward right now.
That's why I was advocating for a small forward like Nic Batum. We could have signed a much cheaper stop gap at center until Porzingis & Willy were ready.
TLover wrote:Made no sense in the off-season either bc Porzingis is the center in the "near" future and Melo is a top 5 power forward right now.
That's why I was advocating for a small forward like Nic Batum. We could have signed a much cheaper stop gap at center until Porzingis & Willy were ready.
KP is 25 when Noah expires. Think he will have any future left?
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
Your acting like everyone on here loved the signing, specially the lenght of contract and money. Fact is, many here hated the signing, including myself. And there there was no hindsight needed. Noah was coming off an injury, was a player in decline, didnt fit and was not being played against small line ups in Chicago. Give a guy like that a chance....sure. 17M. for 4 years guaranteed. No way. Time to stop the excuses and admit to the failed signing. Byw there is nothing wrong with fans using hindsight in commenting on a teams failure. They are not the ones being paid loads of money to make those decisions. Phil is the one getting paid and a Hall of fame coach. He doesn't have that luxury. And therefore has no excuse.
The right move was to sign a good veteran backup in case KP, KO or Willy did not pan out. Pachula, Verejeo, Aldrich, Hibbert. All could have been signed for pennies on the Noah dollar.
dont act like that at all... simply offering a different POV. None of the guys you mentioned are worth much of anything. If your arguement is we could have just gotten a warm body then yes... one of those guys would have been fine. We had Cole here. He's a zero impact player. We had Rolo here who was good, and Noah killed him last year.
What isnt true is Noah pushing Melo to the 3. That would be KP. KP has been terrible at the 5, and Melo has been terrible at the 3.
Noah hasnt been nearly as bad as some here make him out to be and the biggest problem is fit. He's a ball mover. We dont do that.
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
Your acting like everyone on here loved the signing, specially the lenght of contract and money. Fact is, many here hated the signing, including myself. And there there was no hindsight needed. Noah was coming off an injury, was a player in decline, didnt fit and was not being played against small line ups in Chicago. Give a guy like that a chance....sure. 17M. for 4 years guaranteed. No way. Time to stop the excuses and admit to the failed signing. Byw there is nothing wrong with fans using hindsight in commenting on a teams failure. They are not the ones being paid loads of money to make those decisions. Phil is the one getting paid and a Hall of fame coach. He doesn't have that luxury. And therefore has no excuse.
The right move was to sign a good veteran backup in case KP, KO or Willy did not pan out. Pachula, Verejeo, Aldrich, Hibbert. All could have been signed for pennies on the Noah dollar.
dont act like that at all... simply offering a different POV. None of the guys you mentioned are worth much of anything. If your arguement is we could have just gotten a warm body then yes... one of those guys would have been fine. We had Cole here. He's a zero impact player. We had Rolo here who was good, and Noah killed him last year.What isnt true is Noah pushing Melo to the 3. That would be KP. KP has been terrible at the 5, and Melo has been terrible at the 3.
Noah hasnt been nearly as bad as some here make him out to be and the biggest problem is fit. He's a ball mover. We dont do that.
Assumption for a warm body is accurate. Again, salary is biggest reason for the failed signing. I dont hate Noah at 3M. He hustles, brings energy, can rebound. But definitely hate him for 17M. Noticed Pachula's Per 36 is 11 pts. and 11 Trb. Hibbert 11 and 8. Cole 7 and 11. Varejeo 7 and 11. Noah 8 and 14. Seems like they are all just warm bodies that can rebound. But not for 17M.
Agree about KP. Even when Noah is off the floor, KP still forces JH to play him and Melo out of position. KP is not ready to play the 5. Think thats one of the reasons Phil may be trying to move Melo. Question is, as you said, does moving Melo or replacing Noah, change the fact KP is not ready to play the 5 and is too slow to cover a stretch 4's? That will have to be addressed
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TLover wrote:Noah is a waste bc he limits Melo's usage at the 4. In addition, limiting the minutes to oquinn & hernangomez who are clearly better players than Noah.This team has plenty talent to still to make the playoffs.
Think it would help if we can somehow trade Rose & Noah to the t-wolves for Rubio, Mohammed and fillers.
Right it's a waste in the sense that we wasted $70 mil in cap space on a player who doesn't make sense for our team or play well enough to justify his salary. (It's not a waste in the sense that Noah doesn't belong in the league or is a terrible player.)
did you think Willy was ready to be an NBA starter or that KOQ would take the step forward we needed? Or that KP should be the full time center? Seems like Noah made plenty of sense until you apply hindsight.
Your acting like everyone on here loved the signing, specially the lenght of contract and money. Fact is, many here hated the signing, including myself. And there there was no hindsight needed. Noah was coming off an injury, was a player in decline, didnt fit and was not being played against small line ups in Chicago. Give a guy like that a chance....sure. 17M. for 4 years guaranteed. No way. Time to stop the excuses and admit to the failed signing. Byw there is nothing wrong with fans using hindsight in commenting on a teams failure. They are not the ones being paid loads of money to make those decisions. Phil is the one getting paid and a Hall of fame coach. He doesn't have that luxury. And therefore has no excuse.
The right move was to sign a good veteran backup in case KP, KO or Willy did not pan out. Pachula, Verejeo, Aldrich, Hibbert. All could have been signed for pennies on the Noah dollar.
dont act like that at all... simply offering a different POV. None of the guys you mentioned are worth much of anything. If your arguement is we could have just gotten a warm body then yes... one of those guys would have been fine. We had Cole here. He's a zero impact player. We had Rolo here who was good, and Noah killed him last year.
What isnt true is Noah pushing Melo to the 3. That would be KP. KP has been terrible at the 5, and Melo has been terrible at the 3.Noah hasnt been nearly as bad as some here make him out to be and the biggest problem is fit. He's a ball mover. We dont do that.
It's not either/or. If we didn't have Noah, we could try lineups both ways (Melo at 3 and KP at the 4 and then at times try Melo and KP at the 4 and 5) and see which works better in which situations. Because we have Noah, we can't do that though. It has to be Melo at the 3 and KP at the 4 (or else have a $70 mil bench player). You are right that our two best players both should be playing the same position, though. (Another reason the Melo NTC hurts. Plus the huge trade kicker.)
