Knicks · Updated 82games numbers (Striking +/- #s) (page 1)
The team does well only if KP or the bench players are playing. The guys Phil is paying $2 or 3 mil are playing better than the 8 figure salary players. He's actually done a great job with the small signings and drafting. It's the large trades and FA signings that have been a failure.
franco12 wrote:Yea but look at the top 5 man units. I agree that the smaller signings/picks have done well and have heart where our main guys seem to lack.
The units are ranked based on minutes played, not how good they are on the website. Most of the lineups with good +/- #s have a very small sample of minutes. It's hard to analyze specific 5 man units because the minutes are so small.
nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.
I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.
Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.
If you are waiting for Phil to be better at assessing value for larger contracts, don't hold your breath. I have come to a point where I think the Knicks will have one or two bogeys on the roster no matter what. I just want them to be bogeys that don't hurt us. I am well beyond expecting them to help us. Right now Melo is hurting us, Rose is 50-50. But neither is good for long term development of the youth. KP already becoming a ISO heavy player. Noah doesn't hurt us, he dies provide enthusiasm for the team and he is unselfish.
meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.If you are waiting for Phil to be better at assessing value for larger contracts, don't hold your breath. I have come to a point where I think the Knicks will have one or two bogeys on the roster no matter what. I just want them to be bogeys that don't hurt us. I am well beyond expecting them to help us. Right now Melo is hurting us, Rose is 50-50. But neither is good for long term development of the youth. KP already becoming a ISO heavy player. Noah doesn't hurt us, he dies provide enthusiasm for the team and he is unselfish.
I'd say we have 4 bogies right now (not because they're bad players but because they're bad contracts). We have $74 mil out of a $94 mil cap dedicated to players who aren't helping us win games. You could look at any one of those four players and say they're not hurting. And definitely good teams do often have one player with a bad contract. But you can't have almost 80% of your cap space dedicated to these kinds of players. You won't find a good team with 80% of its cap space dedicated to guys with average to below average advanced stats. I'd be willing to bet if you looked over every roster since the NBA implemented a salary cap, you wouldn't find even one exception.
Leads the entire team with a +3.2 rating
Better than Melo and KP !!!
Sasha as well seems to make positive things happen. He plays hard on D, he moves the ball and he tends to shoot the shots created within the offense like a natural 2.
The Noah/KP/Melo/Lee with Rose or Jennings lineup is a disaster. Look at that win rate. 37 percent with Rose. 28 with Jennings. Noah does not fit with that group and Melo isn't good at 3 either. Phil has to do everything in his power to get this team rebuild in a way where it's Willy, KP, 2 shooting wings that can defend and a pass first point guard who has true leadership skills (as well as grit).
Rose/Melo have been a disaster pairing. Predictable, even in his prime, Iverson played with Melo in his prime on a really athletic good young Nuggets team. And they couldn't win a playoff game.
I don't mind winning 30 games again next year (17-18) and drafting in the lottery again. Only this time I want to make sure that Willy, KP and our team is trying to play the right way on both ends. One on one heavy offense with little commitment on defense is the worst brand of basketball and that is what we play with Rose/Melo.
Bonn1997 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.If you are waiting for Phil to be better at assessing value for larger contracts, don't hold your breath. I have come to a point where I think the Knicks will have one or two bogeys on the roster no matter what. I just want them to be bogeys that don't hurt us. I am well beyond expecting them to help us. Right now Melo is hurting us, Rose is 50-50. But neither is good for long term development of the youth. KP already becoming a ISO heavy player. Noah doesn't hurt us, he dies provide enthusiasm for the team and he is unselfish.
I'd say we have 4 bogies right now (not because they're bad players but because they're bad contracts). We have $74 mil out of a $94 mil cap dedicated to players who aren't helping us win games. You could look at any one of those four players and say they're not hurting. And definitely good teams do often have one player with a bad contract. But you can't have almost 80% of your cap space dedicated to these kinds of players. You won't find a good team with 80% of its cap space dedicated to guys with average to below average advanced stats. I'd be willing to bet if you looked over every roster since the NBA implemented a salary cap, you wouldn't find even one exception.
The only part of this I would disagree with is that you can look at any one of them and say they are not hurting us. Melo and Rose are definitely hurting our lottery prospects and selfish isolation players are not the types of role models we would want around KP. I agree that we need to dump as much as we can, my point was I don't expect the next set of contracts to turn the ship around. I don't even think we should spend our cap space. I would love to let Rose walk, I would have loved to let Melo walk two years ago as well.
I ascribe zero value to loading up on toxic assets to build middling playoff teams with a short window to accomplish a second round exit. That to me is completely fukked up.
But if we dump all four and went out to get more vets we would again add some baggage. That was my point. Phil isn't just going to get better at assessing value. In Noah's case he did have other bidders willing to pay him. The whole NBA is full of overpaid baggage contacts. Ours are probably more extreme than most.
meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.If you are waiting for Phil to be better at assessing value for larger contracts, don't hold your breath. I have come to a point where I think the Knicks will have one or two bogeys on the roster no matter what. I just want them to be bogeys that don't hurt us. I am well beyond expecting them to help us. Right now Melo is hurting us, Rose is 50-50. But neither is good for long term development of the youth. KP already becoming a ISO heavy player. Noah doesn't hurt us, he dies provide enthusiasm for the team and he is unselfish.
I'd say we have 4 bogies right now (not because they're bad players but because they're bad contracts). We have $74 mil out of a $94 mil cap dedicated to players who aren't helping us win games. You could look at any one of those four players and say they're not hurting. And definitely good teams do often have one player with a bad contract. But you can't have almost 80% of your cap space dedicated to these kinds of players. You won't find a good team with 80% of its cap space dedicated to guys with average to below average advanced stats. I'd be willing to bet if you looked over every roster since the NBA implemented a salary cap, you wouldn't find even one exception.The only part of this I would disagree with is that you can look at any one of them and say they are not hurting us. Melo and Rose are definitely hurting our lottery prospects and selfish isolation players are not the types of role models we would want around KP. I agree that we need to dump as much as we can, my point was I don't expect the next set of contracts to turn the ship around. I don't even think we should spend our cap space. I would love to let Rose walk, I would have loved to let Melo walk two years ago as well.
I ascribe zero value to loading up on toxic assets to build middling playoff teams with a short window to accomplish a second round exit. That to me is completely fukked up.
But if we dump all four and went out to get more vets we would again add some baggage. That was my point. Phil isn't just going to get better at assessing value. In Noah's case he did have other bidders willing to pay him. The whole NBA is full of overpaid baggage contacts. Ours are probably more extreme than most.
I'm not so sure about that. The team is playing better with them off the court. When they are on the court and keep doing what they're doing, they might be helping our lottery chances. That might be an "over-reading" of the on/off +/- data but I doubt they're actually hurting our chances.
Bonn1997 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:The good thing is KP and Willy are really just getting started!!! Phil needs to accept that his drafting and lower cost players are his BEST moves and he should continue in that direction. Phil might consider staying away from the big name signings 😜
Agreed. And do whatever he can to get out of these big contracts. I think he's probably very good at identifying talent. That's how he got KP, Willy, Kuz, etc. And with these players, it's generally given that they'll have low salaries. When Phil has to actually figure out how much a player is worth (as an FA or in a trade), that's where he struggles.
The GOOD thing is that this is an easily fixable problem. He has it within his control to make the shift away from high cost Free Agents. He can make trades to bring in younger prospects and picks. It's not a bad spot to be in at this point because his earlier work in the Draft and adding younger players has been good so far.I can't tell you how amped up I am about Phil trying to get into the top 10 of this draft. I think this is a great opportunity for the Knicks and i'm pretty sure that Gaines has been chirping in his ear about all the talent there is this year. Scouts like Gaines LIVE for this kind of draft crop!!!
It's fixable but I wouldn't say it's easily fixable. Phil has to realize he's messed up with these larger contracts and learn from those mistakes and then find teams to take those contracts off our hands.If you are waiting for Phil to be better at assessing value for larger contracts, don't hold your breath. I have come to a point where I think the Knicks will have one or two bogeys on the roster no matter what. I just want them to be bogeys that don't hurt us. I am well beyond expecting them to help us. Right now Melo is hurting us, Rose is 50-50. But neither is good for long term development of the youth. KP already becoming a ISO heavy player. Noah doesn't hurt us, he dies provide enthusiasm for the team and he is unselfish.
I'd say we have 4 bogies right now (not because they're bad players but because they're bad contracts). We have $74 mil out of a $94 mil cap dedicated to players who aren't helping us win games. You could look at any one of those four players and say they're not hurting. And definitely good teams do often have one player with a bad contract. But you can't have almost 80% of your cap space dedicated to these kinds of players. You won't find a good team with 80% of its cap space dedicated to guys with average to below average advanced stats. I'd be willing to bet if you looked over every roster since the NBA implemented a salary cap, you wouldn't find even one exception.The only part of this I would disagree with is that you can look at any one of them and say they are not hurting us. Melo and Rose are definitely hurting our lottery prospects and selfish isolation players are not the types of role models we would want around KP. I agree that we need to dump as much as we can, my point was I don't expect the next set of contracts to turn the ship around. I don't even think we should spend our cap space. I would love to let Rose walk, I would have loved to let Melo walk two years ago as well.
I ascribe zero value to loading up on toxic assets to build middling playoff teams with a short window to accomplish a second round exit. That to me is completely fukked up.
But if we dump all four and went out to get more vets we would again add some baggage. That was my point. Phil isn't just going to get better at assessing value. In Noah's case he did have other bidders willing to pay him. The whole NBA is full of overpaid baggage contacts. Ours are probably more extreme than most.
I'm not so sure about that. The team is playing better with them off the court. When they are on the court and keep doing what they're doing, they might be helping our lottery chances. That might be an "over-reading" of the on/off +/- data but I doubt they're actually hurting our chances.
Touche.