Knicks · Summary of 5 Things Posted that would help us (page 1)

1) Trade Melo (for pennies on the dollar if necessary). Yes, he should have never been resigned and/or traded last season, but at this point it's more beneficial to move him - even on not great deal like the Clippers offer. What if he gets injured? His value is clearly lower then last season (or the one before) and will not increase? What's the benefit to waiting - he keeps us slightly more competitive (but not playoff competitive)? This must happen, the sooner the better. Getting Rivers and/or a future #1 in 2021 is not a good return, but we're not in a position of power and everyone knows it (I bet other GMs call us first when looking to make deals - we are known for over-paying, over-valuing and making impulsive decisions to keep revenue flowing - sad) If there is a way to package with Noah and get less return - worth it to free up all the money and get decent draft pick going forward.

2) Fire Sale for D.Rose (draft pick or low contact players only), L.Thomas, Sasha, B.Jennings - maybe we get a couple of #2 picks we can use... Only expensive player I'd consider swapping Rose for is Rubio... passes, ball movement and seems well-liked by teammates. Let Rose walk if can't be dealt

3) See who clears waivers after trading deadline - maybe pick up some cuts on low-cost deals (D.Williams coming back would be fine at $4 mill)

4) Draft best player available - yes we need a PG and I am not a B.Jennings fan (unless as a backup) - but always take the best talent. Only makes sense to select by position when you have the rest of your roster solidified.

5) Keep C.Lee, J.Holiday, O'Quinn, Willy, KP, Kuz, Baker, Plumlee, Noah (no choice unless packaged), Ndour? - need continuity and want to reward players that a) play hard, b) try on defense, c) have not realized full potential.

Outcome would put us on a different path for next year. Most important thing that has to change in future, is not operating from a position of weakness (eg being in win-now mode) - it's been a domino affect since Ewing left that has never sustained...

Think most of us all agree about Melo and Rose - but who would you guys keep, pick up after deadline and what kind of return could we get for our players in a fire sale?

I agree about most of this. I think we are at the point where it's best to move Melo sooner instead of possibly waiting on a better deal later. If LAC can just find 1 more 1st round pick and can send us Rivers, B Johnson, their 2021 1st rd pick, and just 1 more 1st round pick, it's very good value. Johnson is basically a 1st round pick, and Rivers is a starting caliber player at 24 years old. The picks will just be assets in the bank. Rivers can give some offense and grow with KP and Willy as a secondary playmaking SG. It is important to hit on our draft picks the next 2 years for this to really work as well.

As far as keeping players, other than KP and Willy, i think Holiday, Kuz, and Baker are definitely keepers. I think Jennings and Lee can be as well because of their quality play and veteran presence. Can't just flip the entire team. We need vets and continuity to build a stable environment. Noah is here too. I think O'Quinn should be moved simply because he can get us back real value and we probably won't resign him for a big contract next summer when he opts out. But i like him a lot. I want to surround KP and Willy with an elite PG and a bunch of wings who can shoot, defend, and keep the ball moving. We will need to find that PG, hopefully in the draft. Jennings can be an okay backup. You know what you have with him. Lee, Holiday, Kuz, Baker, possibly Rivers, and sign someone like Ian Clark this summer. That would be a nice collection of wings to start with who can all shoot and fill a role. It will all depend on the development of KP and Willy, and what we find for a PG that will determine how quickly we improve but it's a start.

I'd love another 1st rounder, but if I'm getting one 1st rounder from LAC, okay with it being 4 years away as there's a better chance they would be worse (then currently).

A.Rivers has some potential and may do better playing away from his dad and on a team without 3 other veteran stars - I'm all for it!

Really impressed with O'Quinn's progress and toughness this year - but agree he has some value. Don't think KP and Willy have enough toughness between them yet (O'Quinn kinda reminds me of an Oakley-lite type of player).

Like the Ian Clark interest - young with potential and from a winning culture.

Who else is out there that we is low cost/undervalued and signable?

There was an article the other day saying Phil wants to build around:

KP
Noah (As a backup)
Kuz
Willy
CLee

And add a top PG via the draft

I've gone back and forth on it, but if we're rebuilding and moving Melo, then I'm happy to trade rose for Rubio- I think he'd be another good veteran presence (along with Noah and Lee) to help our young players develop, and his pass first instincts would be great for our young front court. He could also help mentor whichever G we draft.

you would think Rose should be relatively easy to trade - he's been pretty healthy, he's shown he can still get to the basket. He's an ending contract.

Not withstanding his one game AWOL, you would think.

But then it seems very different in reality - and I said at the time I thought we overpaid for him- we gave up Robin Lopez who basically is nothing special, but clogs the middle and plays defense, rebounds and literally shows up every game.

If we can't trade Rose, release him to remove the possibility of extending him.

I don't see a move for Melo.

I think we should keep Jennings.

So, I don't see anything happening at the deadline

Knixkik wrote:I agree about most of this. I think we are at the point where it's best to move Melo sooner instead of possibly waiting on a better deal later. If LAC can just find 1 more 1st round pick and can send us Rivers, B Johnson, their 2021 1st rd pick, and just 1 more 1st round pick, it's very good value. Johnson is basically a 1st round pick, and Rivers is a starting caliber player at 24 years old.

Knicks will not likely get two first round picks and a young player for Melo

This is a hard unpleasant reality of trading Melo

A) Because of the NTC and trade kicker, the Knicks will have to take in a bad contract back. A BAD CONTRACT MUST COME BACK IN SOME FORM.

B) The only way to mitigate this damage is to 1) Hope to find a bad contract that ends quickly or 2) Is a bad contract that is a much smaller chunk of cap space, which opens up options to push the contract out. Trying to move a 25-28 million dollar hit on one player is just too damn hard to do. With a NTC and trade kicker, it's close to freaking impossible. But a 12 million dollar guy is one bad contract that could be feasible to dump or stretch across various ways. Not ideal, but more managable.

This is not about dumping a problem and getting a "solution"

It's about taking a large problem and breaking it down into smaller problems.

The "best" the Knicks can get here is to try to make sure the bad contract they take in isnt' a long term toxic contract. That's it, that's the most they can hope for in this situation. Melo will not waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. Or one depleted of assets so they can't keep building around him the next two years.

The expectations on any return on a Melo trade are, sorry to say it, far too high.

There's what you want, then there is what you can get.

A hairy troll looking dude working at a fast food place and is greasy all the time and smells bad and has no car and no future wants to bang Selena Gomez. He wants to rail her until the sun stops shining. But that's what he wants. What he might get is the chick working next to him who is 15 years older, has three kids from three different dads and can't read and only watches reality television and focuses on her horoscopes. That's what he can get.

Trading Melo for multiple high picks and young assets is about as likely as Selena Gomez blowing you or me tomorrow night.