Knicks · GameThread: Lakers in town for the 7pm game, watch on TNT (page 11)
He mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.
nyknickzingis wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Hopefully. Do you think Jeff's job is secure? I loved the hire but this has been a huge let down.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Maybe it's the players but. Maybe it is the president but who usually takes the fall?crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is the kind of game that gets a coach or gm fired.nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP getting much better looks now. Why oh why don't they do this earlier in the game?One thing that I've never got about Melo - he uses his bullets early in the game. You watch a guy like Chris Paul or Lebron and they use the first three quarters to set up their teammates and then they score a lot in the 4th quarter if needed.
Anyway.
Don't worry this is all gonna change soon. Phil knows he has to make the move to this being about KP and the future.
This will literally be the third tear down rebuild in like 3.5 years under Phil. I wonder if Dolan is starting to lose patience. He was at the game tonight, don't know if he stayed for those "METTA METTA METTA" chants... but if he did, there's a good bet he didn't like them.
I mean, I don't want to harp on this - but Hornacek does not seem like a very good coach. He's in a horrible position, put there by Phil, but man this looks like a complete mess. The team is in shambles and has no plan on offense or defense.
It's the players!!! More than anything it's PLAYERS FIRST and then the coach. It's not like there's some secret defense that none of the Knicks coaches know about. At a certain point you have to fill your team with 2 way players that play TEAM BALL if you want to win.
Dolan has to have spoken to Phil who I'm sure has told him the path forward is to rebuild around KP. I don't think Dolan is going to panic. He gave Glen Sather AMPLE time to rebuild the Rangers and I expect he'll be patient with Phil knowing how popular KP is and having a chance to add more young talent.
I think you have to give Jeff a chance to work with a young group of talent that will play HARD and listen. The young guys do that and I suspect things will look much different in terms of effort and hustle. Even if they still lose it won't be as lethargic.
That was my problem with D'Antoni. You shouldn't need a certain type of team to be successful. A good coach adjusts to his team. If your team has talent like Melo and Rose, you have to adapt to their strengths and weaknesses. Or get them to buy into your system. MDA had a good system but Melo never bought into it. Amare and Melo never wanted to play the 5/4 which would have made it successful.In our case, Melo's looked his best as a 4, and Rose's a 2. BJ is our only real 1. Shouldn't Horny be trying some things like that? We haven't seen much adjustments from Horny. He has had the same game plan for the starters almost all season. I think you have to adapt to your talent. We should have atleast tried to play different with Melo/Rose/KP. How about BJ starting at 1 full time, moving Rose to 2, Melo starting at 4 and KP at 5. Try that for 10 games. Couldn't have hurt. I think Hornachek has some great sets, but he's been very very inconsistent with what sets he insterts. He's also been inflexible with regards to playing Melo at 4, KP at 5, or starting BJ at 1 moving Rose to 2. I was hoping for a much better coach to be honest. He has let me down, and I was a fan of his. I still think he's the right coach for KP. Way better than Fisher.
Yeah, at this point, I'd like to see some response in the starting lineup.
Play KP with the bench. Start Willy at the 5 and Melo at 4.
Edit: actually, I'm gonna say to bench DRose
Starters:
Jennings
Holiday
CLee
Melo
Willy or KOQ
Bench:
Baker
Sasha
Kuz
KP
Willy or KOQ
exile - DRose.
crzymdups wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/828801961432485888
Click here to view the Tweet
There was no real energy or sense of urgency from the starters. You can't expect the team to win if the starters aren't going to bring it and set the tone.
nixluva wrote:Yeah but something happened. The team looked a lot better early on. Hiring a guy that likes to play two point guards at once and filling the roster with 5 centers doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't think it is as simple as getting young guys in. There is a disconnect someplace.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Hopefully. Do you think Jeff's job is secure? I loved the hire but this has been a huge let down.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Maybe it's the players but. Maybe it is the president but who usually takes the fall?crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is the kind of game that gets a coach or gm fired.nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP getting much better looks now. Why oh why don't they do this earlier in the game?One thing that I've never got about Melo - he uses his bullets early in the game. You watch a guy like Chris Paul or Lebron and they use the first three quarters to set up their teammates and then they score a lot in the 4th quarter if needed.
Anyway.
Don't worry this is all gonna change soon. Phil knows he has to make the move to this being about KP and the future.
This will literally be the third tear down rebuild in like 3.5 years under Phil. I wonder if Dolan is starting to lose patience. He was at the game tonight, don't know if he stayed for those "METTA METTA METTA" chants... but if he did, there's a good bet he didn't like them.
I mean, I don't want to harp on this - but Hornacek does not seem like a very good coach. He's in a horrible position, put there by Phil, but man this looks like a complete mess. The team is in shambles and has no plan on offense or defense.
It's the players!!! More than anything it's PLAYERS FIRST and then the coach. It's not like there's some secret defense that none of the Knicks coaches know about. At a certain point you have to fill your team with 2 way players that play TEAM BALL if you want to win.
Dolan has to have spoken to Phil who I'm sure has told him the path forward is to rebuild around KP. I don't think Dolan is going to panic. He gave Glen Sather AMPLE time to rebuild the Rangers and I expect he'll be patient with Phil knowing how popular KP is and having a chance to add more young talent.
I think you have to give Jeff a chance to work with a young group of talent that will play HARD and listen. The young guys do that and I suspect things will look much different in terms of effort and hustle. Even if they still lose it won't be as lethargic.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.
Just saw that. Agree completely with your interpretation.
Honestly, I feel like it is mainly Rose. He just doesn't fit here.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Yeah but something happened. The team looked a lot better early on. Hiring a guy that likes to play two point guards at once and filling the roster with 5 centers doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't think it is as simple as getting young guys in. There is a disconnect someplace.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Hopefully. Do you think Jeff's job is secure? I loved the hire but this has been a huge let down.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Maybe it's the players but. Maybe it is the president but who usually takes the fall?crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is the kind of game that gets a coach or gm fired.nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP getting much better looks now. Why oh why don't they do this earlier in the game?One thing that I've never got about Melo - he uses his bullets early in the game. You watch a guy like Chris Paul or Lebron and they use the first three quarters to set up their teammates and then they score a lot in the 4th quarter if needed.
Anyway.
Don't worry this is all gonna change soon. Phil knows he has to make the move to this being about KP and the future.
This will literally be the third tear down rebuild in like 3.5 years under Phil. I wonder if Dolan is starting to lose patience. He was at the game tonight, don't know if he stayed for those "METTA METTA METTA" chants... but if he did, there's a good bet he didn't like them.
I mean, I don't want to harp on this - but Hornacek does not seem like a very good coach. He's in a horrible position, put there by Phil, but man this looks like a complete mess. The team is in shambles and has no plan on offense or defense.
It's the players!!! More than anything it's PLAYERS FIRST and then the coach. It's not like there's some secret defense that none of the Knicks coaches know about. At a certain point you have to fill your team with 2 way players that play TEAM BALL if you want to win.
Dolan has to have spoken to Phil who I'm sure has told him the path forward is to rebuild around KP. I don't think Dolan is going to panic. He gave Glen Sather AMPLE time to rebuild the Rangers and I expect he'll be patient with Phil knowing how popular KP is and having a chance to add more young talent.
I think you have to give Jeff a chance to work with a young group of talent that will play HARD and listen. The young guys do that and I suspect things will look much different in terms of effort and hustle. Even if they still lose it won't be as lethargic.
I would love to hear an honest, off the record account from Jeff about what he thinks of this season...
crzymdups wrote:I think that is a good rotation to try.nyknickzingis wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Hopefully. Do you think Jeff's job is secure? I loved the hire but this has been a huge let down.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Maybe it's the players but. Maybe it is the president but who usually takes the fall?crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is the kind of game that gets a coach or gm fired.nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP getting much better looks now. Why oh why don't they do this earlier in the game?One thing that I've never got about Melo - he uses his bullets early in the game. You watch a guy like Chris Paul or Lebron and they use the first three quarters to set up their teammates and then they score a lot in the 4th quarter if needed.
Anyway.
Don't worry this is all gonna change soon. Phil knows he has to make the move to this being about KP and the future.
This will literally be the third tear down rebuild in like 3.5 years under Phil. I wonder if Dolan is starting to lose patience. He was at the game tonight, don't know if he stayed for those "METTA METTA METTA" chants... but if he did, there's a good bet he didn't like them.
I mean, I don't want to harp on this - but Hornacek does not seem like a very good coach. He's in a horrible position, put there by Phil, but man this looks like a complete mess. The team is in shambles and has no plan on offense or defense.
It's the players!!! More than anything it's PLAYERS FIRST and then the coach. It's not like there's some secret defense that none of the Knicks coaches know about. At a certain point you have to fill your team with 2 way players that play TEAM BALL if you want to win.
Dolan has to have spoken to Phil who I'm sure has told him the path forward is to rebuild around KP. I don't think Dolan is going to panic. He gave Glen Sather AMPLE time to rebuild the Rangers and I expect he'll be patient with Phil knowing how popular KP is and having a chance to add more young talent.
I think you have to give Jeff a chance to work with a young group of talent that will play HARD and listen. The young guys do that and I suspect things will look much different in terms of effort and hustle. Even if they still lose it won't be as lethargic.
That was my problem with D'Antoni. You shouldn't need a certain type of team to be successful. A good coach adjusts to his team. If your team has talent like Melo and Rose, you have to adapt to their strengths and weaknesses. Or get them to buy into your system. MDA had a good system but Melo never bought into it. Amare and Melo never wanted to play the 5/4 which would have made it successful.In our case, Melo's looked his best as a 4, and Rose's a 2. BJ is our only real 1. Shouldn't Horny be trying some things like that? We haven't seen much adjustments from Horny. He has had the same game plan for the starters almost all season. I think you have to adapt to your talent. We should have atleast tried to play different with Melo/Rose/KP. How about BJ starting at 1 full time, moving Rose to 2, Melo starting at 4 and KP at 5. Try that for 10 games. Couldn't have hurt. I think Hornachek has some great sets, but he's been very very inconsistent with what sets he insterts. He's also been inflexible with regards to playing Melo at 4, KP at 5, or starting BJ at 1 moving Rose to 2. I was hoping for a much better coach to be honest. He has let me down, and I was a fan of his. I still think he's the right coach for KP. Way better than Fisher.
Yeah, at this point, I'd like to see some response in the starting lineup.
Play KP with the bench. Start Willy at the 5 and Melo at 4.
Starters:
Jennings
DRose
CLee
Melo
Willy or KOQBench:
Baker
Holiday
Kuz
KP
Willy or KOQ
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/828801961432485888
Click here to view the TweetThere was no real energy or sense of urgency from the starters. You can't expect the team to win if the starters aren't going to bring it and set the tone.
I just heard him say "our defense was trash". Most honest assessment I've heard all year.
SocraticBallin22 wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/828801961432485888
Click here to view the TweetThere was no real energy or sense of urgency from the starters. You can't expect the team to win if the starters aren't going to bring it and set the tone.
I just heard him say "our defense was trash". Most honest assessment I've heard all year.
He also said that they should maybe make a lineup change.
I'll say it again - I really like Jennings. He should stay here for next season and beyond. He sets a good tone.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.
Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
SocraticBallin22 wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/828801961432485888
Click here to view the TweetThere was no real energy or sense of urgency from the starters. You can't expect the team to win if the starters aren't going to bring it and set the tone.
I just heard him say "our defense was trash". Most honest assessment I've heard all year.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/828807608630861825
Click here to view the Tweet
Melo has been here for 5 years. The team has not progressed. It is time for him to go.
Jennings was very blunt after the game. I like his attitude. He is a keeper.
The team is proably pissed that Rose goes AWOL and still starts and never paid a price on the court yet continues to play for himself and no D
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Yes he did go 0-6. I also noticed that when Melo score the next time down his guy scores.Melo has been here for 5 years. The team has not progressed. It is time for him to go.
Jennings was very blunt after the game. I like his attitude. He is a keeper.
The team is proably pissed that Rose goes AWOL and still starts and never paid a price on the court yet continues to play for himself and no D
Agree completely with the bold. And about Jennings. And sadly about Melo - it's time for him to go.
holfresh wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
KP needs to be in rhythm and the way Rose plays doesn't create anything for him. Then you have Melo who can get his regardless of the offense and doesn't need help. KP is not that way. Especially this early in his career. KP needs a better flow to the offense which doesn't happen the way it should with Rose at the point.
This roster has to change. They took a shot at it but the parts don't work with Rose and Melo as the top dogs. This team needs a legit PG to get the best out of these players. Rose had a chance to be that PG but he simply doesn't try to be a ball distributor and play maker.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Yes he did go 0-6. I also noticed that when Melo score the next time down his guy scores.Melo has been here for 5 years. The team has not progressed. It is time for him to go.
Jennings was very blunt after the game. I like his attitude. He is a keeper.
The team is proably pissed that Rose goes AWOL and still starts and never paid a price on the court yet continues to play for himself and no D
Jennings is absolutely a keeper. He can be frustrating but got to love his attitude and effort. He makes a conscious effort to be a real playmaker out there and speed up the pace. At worst he is a sporadic contributor but a high level backup. At best, he can take over a game here and there, no doubt about that.
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
KP needs to be in rhythm and the way Rose plays doesn't create anything for him. Then you have Melo who can get his regardless of the offense and doesn't need help. KP is not that way. Especially this early in his career. KP needs a better flow to the offense which doesn't happen the way it should with Rose at the point.
This roster has to change. They took a shot at it but the parts don't work with Rose and Melo as the top dogs. This team needs a legit PG to get the best out of these players. Rose had a chance to be that PG but he simply doesn't try to be a ball distributor and play maker.
I really don't want to knock KP..You force me to when you don't hold him accountable..You blame others for what KP isn't doing...Early in the game, Melo and KP running a pick and roll at the top of the key..KP doesn't roll to create a passing lane to get the ball..Melo didn't pass..I saw the same play with Willy and Melo, Willy got the ball immeadistely..KP has lots of work to do but all you guys blame others for his shortcomings..It doesn't help him get better..If he knows the fans are calling him out he will work on his game..
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
KP needs to be in rhythm and the way Rose plays doesn't create anything for him. Then you have Melo who can get his regardless of the offense and doesn't need help. KP is not that way. Especially this early in his career. KP needs a better flow to the offense which doesn't happen the way it should with Rose at the point.
This roster has to change. They took a shot at it but the parts don't work with Rose and Melo as the top dogs. This team needs a legit PG to get the best out of these players. Rose had a chance to be that PG but he simply doesn't try to be a ball distributor and play maker.
I really don't want to knock KP..You force me to when you don't hold him accountable..You blame others for what KP isn't doing...Early in the game, Melo and KP running a pick and roll at the top of the key..KP doesn't roll to create a passing lane to get the ball..Melo didn't pass..I saw the same play with Willy and Melo, Willy got the ball immeadistely..KP has lots of work to do but all you guys blame others for his shortcomings..
Say what you want about KP, but I can almost guarantee that nearly every front office exec in the league is blaming KP's struggles solely on the knicks and would be confident that KP would thrive in another system that doesn't focus on heavy isolation and a slowdown offense that tries to regulate KP to a Ryan Anderson type role. KP is being misused and his confidence is being badly effected on both ends becauae he's a young player who is still trying to figure out his nba role. We need to do right by him or we will hinder his development and further be the laughingstock of the league.
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
KP needs to be in rhythm and the way Rose plays doesn't create anything for him. Then you have Melo who can get his regardless of the offense and doesn't need help. KP is not that way. Especially this early in his career. KP needs a better flow to the offense which doesn't happen the way it should with Rose at the point.
This roster has to change. They took a shot at it but the parts don't work with Rose and Melo as the top dogs. This team needs a legit PG to get the best out of these players. Rose had a chance to be that PG but he simply doesn't try to be a ball distributor and play maker.
I really don't want to knock KP..You force me to when you don't hold him accountable..You blame others for what KP isn't doing...Early in the game, Melo and KP running a pick and roll at the top of the key..KP doesn't roll to create a passing lane to get the ball..Melo didn't pass..I saw the same play with Willy and Melo, Willy got the ball immeadistely..KP has lots of work to do but all you guys blame others for his shortcomings..It doesn't help him get better..If he knows the fans are calling him out he will work on his game..
Sorry but we all know KP is a hard worker! What I do know is that KP's teammates in the starting lineup don't really look for him enough and haven't developed any real chemistry with him. He can't figure out what Melo or Rose are gonna do cuz they're inconsistent with playing team ball. We should be seeing much more interplay between Rose, KP and Melo!
Just so you understand my point KP isn't going to always roll because he can shoot! Willy is not gonna stop for the jumper but KP does a lot and Melo and Rose should know that after all this time. You want to make this about KP but I'm telling you it's mostly about Rose n Melo not getting in sync with KP.
What the hell do they do in the gym if not go over what each other will do in a PnR or any other play??? The fact that they still don't know or show any chemistry is not on KP!!! He's not the grizzled old vet! It's called LEADERSHIP! Neither Rose nor Melo have led enough this year!
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP's post game is very revealingHe mentions not feeling involved for the first 3 quarters. Not in the flow.
Also mentions no trust on either end of the floor. Too much individual play.
I interpret this as Melo and Rose are killing us.Why would you hear and interpret it any differently..KP started 0-6..
KP needs to be in rhythm and the way Rose plays doesn't create anything for him. Then you have Melo who can get his regardless of the offense and doesn't need help. KP is not that way. Especially this early in his career. KP needs a better flow to the offense which doesn't happen the way it should with Rose at the point.
This roster has to change. They took a shot at it but the parts don't work with Rose and Melo as the top dogs. This team needs a legit PG to get the best out of these players. Rose had a chance to be that PG but he simply doesn't try to be a ball distributor and play maker.
I really don't want to knock KP..You force me to when you don't hold him accountable..You blame others for what KP isn't doing...Early in the game, Melo and KP running a pick and roll at the top of the key..KP doesn't roll to create a passing lane to get the ball..Melo didn't pass..I saw the same play with Willy and Melo, Willy got the ball immeadistely..KP has lots of work to do but all you guys blame others for his shortcomings..
Say what you want about KP, but I can almost guarantee that nearly every front office exec in the league is blaming KP's struggles solely on the knicks and would be confident that KP would thrive in another system that doesn't focus on heavy isolation and a slowdown offense that tries to regulate KP to a Ryan Anderson type role. KP is being misused and his confidence is being badly effected on both ends becauae he's a young player who is still trying to figure out his nba role. We need to do right by him or we will hinder his development and further be the laughingstock of the league.
KP came into the season saying he has worked on and improved his three point shooting..He also said he worked on his handle..So blame the organization..