Knicks · Melo is actually a great defender .... as a power forward (page 1)
KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?
Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
Knixkik wrote:That's fine except for Rose. Anyone but rose. Rubio, Collison, jennings, doesn't matter. As long as it's not rose it can work. Or just drsft a pg. Fox please. Stick with Lee and holiday at SG.
agreed. He can't be off this team fast enough for me.
fitzfarm wrote:Same can be said for KP as a center he becomes a huge factor as a intimater in the paint ... next year if melo is still with us I want him at the 4 and KP at the 5 let's try to sign a defensive sf and draft monk .KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
If Melo is still on the team next year he needs to come off the bench! Kristaps is not a center... also Melo isn't an enforcer... Willy Hernangomez is a legit big man and potential enforcer. He's going to clean that glass and bang inside, set screens and protect KP... Melo isn't doing any of that.
We are not building around Melo anymore. KP is the power fwd... willy is the center. Melo isn't good enough to defend the 3 full time anymore so he needs to come off the bench. I want Kuz to start at the 3 with a rookie breathing down his neck. I also fully expect to draft a point guard. It doesn't matter if Melo is here or not. We can't continue to build around him. We are not that team anymore. I expect Phil to devote his time on the future from here on out.
We already have a great young player at 4 in KP.
We already have a good young player at 5 in Willy.
Playing Melo at 3 for now makes sense for the young players and long term growth. Ideally you trade him for a Jae Crowder type of 3 (good defender, catch and shoot player) and Rose plays every game like he did the Clippers (looking to pass on drives). Draft the most athletic 2/3 wing in the lottery and now you have some young players playing with an attacking point guard that can pass. Team has defense at the perimeter. We don't have ball stopppers. More in line with what teams that contend have or like to play. After that it's about how good your young players become in their respective roles.
An athletic 3 and 2 will change the way this team defends. Less dribble penetration allowed. More pressure and turn overs on passes. Better rotations. Bigs have to help less on defense. Most important a core that has enough gas in the tank to play defense and run on offense (Hornys style of play) something the current core just does not have.
Ever wonder why fans ask why is Melo not clutch anymore? Well the gas tank. The older players on this team are not suited for Horny system and style of play. We can move anyone to any position but the problem with the gas tank will always remain. It's part of the reason we can't close games in the 4th. By the 4th this teams vets are usually tired.
EnySpree wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Same can be said for KP as a center he becomes a huge factor as a intimater in the paint ... next year if melo is still with us I want him at the 4 and KP at the 5 let's try to sign a defensive sf and draft monk .KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
If Melo is still on the team next year he needs to come off the bench! Kristaps is not a center... also Melo isn't an enforcer... Willy Hernangomez is a legit big man and potential enforcer. He's going to clean that glass and bang inside, set screens and protect KP... Melo isn't doing any of that.
We are not building around Melo anymore. KP is the power fwd... willy is the center. Melo isn't good enough to defend the 3 full time anymore so he needs to come off the bench. I want Kuz to start at the 3 with a rookie breathing down his neck. I also fully expect to draft a point guard. It doesn't matter if Melo is here or not. We can't continue to build around him. We are not that team anymore. I expect Phil to devote his time on the future from here on out.
I'd have to say I think Willy is more of a 4 then KP ...it's all about creating mismatch problems for the opposing team... I'm tired of people saying KP can't handle a guy like d Howard cause I don't think d Howard can handle KP, KP would destroy slower bigger weight wise centers who for the most part KP towers over at 7'3 and have issues getting outside KP would force centers outside and leave the paint open or he can just blow right by them ... he creates such a mismatch opposing centers would probably hit the bench fast .
Melo can not guard the 3 anymore just like KP can not guard 4's anymore the way the NBA is evolving both melo and KP are perfect front court mates at the 4 and 5. Melo is more of a banger and a better passer then KP... he to gives opposing 4's big issues on both ends of the floor melo is quick and pesky look at what he did to griffin when we moved him over, griffin was for the most part was shut down by melo after scoring 18+ points on KP because KP struggles like most centers who guard a quicker player who can score from the outside. Melo is a all star at power forward. KP is a future super star at the center position ... why should we watch both our star players struggle playing out of position at the 3 and the 4 .
I love Willy but he would do best backing up KP or melo for one more year or just be that front court fire player off the bench for the next few years and groom him into your future 4 next to KP.
He can be forced to do this and will surely be injured and his development will be slow down or endangered altogether.
And he need 1-3 more years to get ready.
Melo only can be effective on the same 4 position as KP.
That's why him being traded is so important for Knicks being watchable in near term.
Long term it does not matter much.
So for fans who like to watch Melo making baskets more that Knicks winning games he would better stay.
But for fans who want see more winning and competitive bbal now Melo is a huge obstacle.
For me watching team with him is boring and frustrating.
But I can see how it can be cool for different type of fans.
fitzfarm wrote:EnySpree wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Same can be said for KP as a center he becomes a huge factor as a intimater in the paint ... next year if melo is still with us I want him at the 4 and KP at the 5 let's try to sign a defensive sf and draft monk .KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
If Melo is still on the team next year he needs to come off the bench! Kristaps is not a center... also Melo isn't an enforcer... Willy Hernangomez is a legit big man and potential enforcer. He's going to clean that glass and bang inside, set screens and protect KP... Melo isn't doing any of that.
We are not building around Melo anymore. KP is the power fwd... willy is the center. Melo isn't good enough to defend the 3 full time anymore so he needs to come off the bench. I want Kuz to start at the 3 with a rookie breathing down his neck. I also fully expect to draft a point guard. It doesn't matter if Melo is here or not. We can't continue to build around him. We are not that team anymore. I expect Phil to devote his time on the future from here on out.
I'd have to say I think Willy is more of a 4 then KP ...it's all about creating mismatch problems for the opposing team... I'm tired of people saying KP can't handle a guy like d Howard cause I don't think d Howard can handle KP, KP would destroy slower bigger weight wise centers who for the most part KP towers over at 7'3 and have issues getting outside KP would force centers outside and leave the paint open or he can just blow right by them ... he creates such a mismatch opposing centers would probably hit the bench fast .
Melo can not guard the 3 anymore just like KP can not guard 4's anymore the way the NBA is evolving both melo and KP are perfect front court mates at the 4 and 5. Melo is more of a banger and a better passer then KP... he to gives opposing 4's big issues on both ends of the floor melo is quick and pesky look at what he did to griffin when we moved him over, griffin was for the most part was shut down by melo after scoring 18+ points on KP because KP struggles like most centers who guard a quicker player who can score from the outside. Melo is a all star at power forward. KP is a future super star at the center position ... why should we watch both our star players struggle playing out of position at the 3 and the 4 .
I love Willy but he would do best backing up KP or melo for one more year or just be that front court fire player off the bench for the next few years and groom him into your future 4 next to KP.
+1000
Today's Pf are Melo size. How can a 7'3 player defends a 6'8? It's like asking Melo to defend D Rose.
fitzfarm wrote:EnySpree wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Same can be said for KP as a center he becomes a huge factor as a intimater in the paint ... next year if melo is still with us I want him at the 4 and KP at the 5 let's try to sign a defensive sf and draft monk .KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
If Melo is still on the team next year he needs to come off the bench! Kristaps is not a center... also Melo isn't an enforcer... Willy Hernangomez is a legit big man and potential enforcer. He's going to clean that glass and bang inside, set screens and protect KP... Melo isn't doing any of that.
We are not building around Melo anymore. KP is the power fwd... willy is the center. Melo isn't good enough to defend the 3 full time anymore so he needs to come off the bench. I want Kuz to start at the 3 with a rookie breathing down his neck. I also fully expect to draft a point guard. It doesn't matter if Melo is here or not. We can't continue to build around him. We are not that team anymore. I expect Phil to devote his time on the future from here on out.
I'd have to say I think Willy is more of a 4 then KP ...it's all about creating mismatch problems for the opposing team... I'm tired of people saying KP can't handle a guy like d Howard cause I don't think d Howard can handle KP, KP would destroy slower bigger weight wise centers who for the most part KP towers over at 7'3 and have issues getting outside KP would force centers outside and leave the paint open or he can just blow right by them ... he creates such a mismatch opposing centers would probably hit the bench fast .
Melo can not guard the 3 anymore just like KP can not guard 4's anymore the way the NBA is evolving both melo and KP are perfect front court mates at the 4 and 5. Melo is more of a banger and a better passer then KP... he to gives opposing 4's big issues on both ends of the floor melo is quick and pesky look at what he did to griffin when we moved him over, griffin was for the most part was shut down by melo after scoring 18+ points on KP because KP struggles like most centers who guard a quicker player who can score from the outside. Melo is a all star at power forward. KP is a future super star at the center position ... why should we watch both our star players struggle playing out of position at the 3 and the 4 .
I love Willy but he would do best backing up KP or melo for one more year or just be that front court fire player off the bench for the next few years and groom him into your future 4 next to KP.
Agreed, I think KP is more of a 5 and Willy is a 4 when we are talking longterm. But position is meaningless because they should start together. With KP being one of the best rim protectors in the league already, he's a 5 eventually.
arkrud wrote:KP is not ready to play 5 any significant minutes.
He can be forced to do this and will surely be injured and his development will be slow down or endangered altogether.
And he need 1-3 more years to get ready.
Melo only can be effective on the same 4 position as KP.
That's why him being traded is so important for Knicks being watchable in near term.
Long term it does not matter much.
So for fans who like to watch Melo making baskets more that Knicks winning games he would better stay.
But for fans who want see more winning and competitive bbal now Melo is a huge obstacle.
For me watching team with him is boring and frustrating.
But I can see how it can be cool for different type of fans.
Well said.
Team needs to rebuild around Willy, KP as starters.
The Nets game showed how they can do it.
They need an athletic 3 who defends really well. Plays passing lanes so Knicks can force turnovers something the curent starting 5 is poor at. At 2, they need another really good athlete who can run up the court super fast, get into his spots and get the quick open looks. Defensively this 2 needs to be able to have the ability to pressure a ball handling guard and not let him get by him easily. At 1, for now we have to look at giving BJ or Rose a chance without Melo. Let them run the team fully as if they have the ball first. We don't have many options at the PG spot. Having someone that can penetrate a defense and then look to pass is the key skill we need from our PG.
The bench is already solid for next year with OQuinn, Noah, Kuz, Lee, Holiday. Need to take a gamble in the second round picks on some point guards we could maybe develop into good backups.
fitzfarm wrote:Same can be said for KP as a center he becomes a huge factor as a intimater in the paint ... next year if melo is still with us I want him at the 4 and KP at the 5 let's try to sign a defensive sf and draft monk .KP,Willy
Melo,KOQ
Fa,kuz
Monk,lee
Rose?Anywho melo is a good defender at the 4
Were you saying this about KP when D.Jordan won the game for the Clips with KP guarding him under the basket?? He was easily moving KP out of position to get his rebounds and the big tip in at the end of the game. KP can play center when we're playing certain teams that have the taller lanky type centers like he is but he can't do anything against guys like D.Jordan, M.Gasol, D.Howard and many other big men. With Melo i think we all have been screaming for him to play the 4 spot but that can't be done all the time depending on who we're playing.
nyknickzingis wrote:arkrud wrote:KP is not ready to play 5 any significant minutes.
He can be forced to do this and will surely be injured and his development will be slow down or endangered altogether.
And he need 1-3 more years to get ready.
Melo only can be effective on the same 4 position as KP.
That's why him being traded is so important for Knicks being watchable in near term.
Long term it does not matter much.
So for fans who like to watch Melo making baskets more that Knicks winning games he would better stay.
But for fans who want see more winning and competitive bbal now Melo is a huge obstacle.
For me watching team with him is boring and frustrating.
But I can see how it can be cool for different type of fans.
Well said.
Team needs to rebuild around Willy, KP as starters.
The Nets game showed how they can do it.They need an athletic 3 who defends really well. Plays passing lanes so Knicks can force turnovers something the curent starting 5 is poor at. At 2, they need another really good athlete who can run up the court super fast, get into his spots and get the quick open looks. Defensively this 2 needs to be able to have the ability to pressure a ball handling guard and not let him get by him easily. At 1, for now we have to look at giving BJ or Rose a chance without Melo. Let them run the team fully as if they have the ball first. We don't have many options at the PG spot. Having someone that can penetrate a defense and then look to pass is the key skill we need from our PG.
The bench is already solid for next year with OQuinn, Noah, Kuz, Lee, Holiday. Need to take a gamble in the second round picks on some point guards we could maybe develop into good backups.
If we end up trading Melo which i don't think we will then our biggest needs in the draft or free agency (good luck with this after what's been happening) is a true PG and a SF that can play both ends of the floor. J.Holiday isn't signed for next year so we don't know if he's gonna come back to this mess or not. It's really too bad that L.Thomas didn't or hasn't yet become what we were all hoping he'd be for us this year cause he can play both ends of the court at SF. At PG we should keep B.Jennings and let Rose walk if we can't trade him before the deadline.
PG--B.Jennings, draft pick (D.Fox)
SG--C.Lee
SF--FA/Draft pick, L.Thomas
PF--KP, KOQ
C--W.Hernangomez, J.Noah
A rebuild needs to be a real thing for this team. It really doesn't matter that super stars won't come to this team right now because we need to stay far away from even trying to get a super star on this team and in 3 years when we're hopefully ready to get super star because that will be the missing piece to a good young team this will all have blown over and we'll be ready for those big names again.
Maybe in another year or two KP will have the size needed to play center full time in the NBA but that's just gonna take away from Billy's minutes at center but we'll deal with that when we get there, right now KP is not ready to play center full time and we're gonna have to deal with him not being able to keep up with a lot of the PF's in the league because they're too fast for him. He absolutely needs to work on his post game which is just plain bad right now.
TLover wrote:Great thing about KP & Willy is that they are interchangeable at the 4 & 5.
Exactly.
C Porzingis/Noah/Plumlee
PF Hernangomez/Kuz
SF Lee/Holiday/Thomas
SG Rivers/Clark/Baker
PG Fox/Jennings
Notice Lee and Holiday at the SF. Might be a little out of position, but we will instantly become more athletic at the 1, 2, and 3 and be able to run a lot more. I think they can hold up at the position just fine, and when playing teams that are bigger at SF, we will still have Lance Thomas to play some minutes there. The team is loaded with shooters, defenders, and playmakers to surround KP and Willy.
Knixkik wrote:I still think we end up dealing Melo to LAC with Rivers coming back as the main piece. We are transition into building around KP, and with that, i want to draft a PG and surround this young core with shooting, playmaking, and defensive players. Free agency i am looking for diamonds in the rough, in addition to resigning Jennings and Holiday. Ian Clark is my diamond in the rough choice. I'm also trying to trade O'Quinn for a future 1st round pick because i don't see us paying him big money after next season.C Porzingis/Noah/Plumlee
PF Hernangomez/Kuz
SF Lee/Holiday/Thomas
SG Rivers/Clark/Baker
PG Fox/JenningsNotice Lee and Holiday at the SF. Might be a little out of position, but we will instantly become more athletic at the 1, 2, and 3 and be able to run a lot more. I think they can hold up at the position just fine, and when playing teams that are bigger at SF, we will still have Lance Thomas to play some minutes there. The team is loaded with shooters, defenders, and playmakers to surround KP and Willy.
I would keep OQ and use Kuz at SF...
Lee is too small...
Rivers can be a necessity only if Melo will be traded and Clark is a gamble. But if we can get him we can have some overload of guards which is always good in modern NBA.
But in general star 2-way player at SF will be the missing peace in 2-3 years regardless of Melo being traded of finishing his contract in NY.
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo is better at 4 no question about it.
We already have a great young player at 4 in KP.
We already have a good young player at 5 in Willy.Playing Melo at 3 for now makes sense for the young players and long term growth. Ideally you trade him for a Jae Crowder type of 3 (good defender, catch and shoot player) and Rose plays every game like he did the Clippers (looking to pass on drives). Draft the most athletic 2/3 wing in the lottery and now you have some young players playing with an attacking point guard that can pass. Team has defense at the perimeter. We don't have ball stopppers. More in line with what teams that contend have or like to play. After that it's about how good your young players become in their respective roles.
An athletic 3 and 2 will change the way this team defends. Less dribble penetration allowed. More pressure and turn overs on passes. Better rotations. Bigs have to help less on defense. Most important a core that has enough gas in the tank to play defense and run on offense (Hornys style of play) something the current core just does not have.
Ever wonder why fans ask why is Melo not clutch anymore? Well the gas tank. The older players on this team are not suited for Horny system and style of play. We can move anyone to any position but the problem with the gas tank will always remain. It's part of the reason we can't close games in the 4th. By the 4th this teams vets are usually tired.
Melo need to be traded to the Spurs so coach Pop could define his position and how many minute he deserve on the court. Lebron happen to be the best player/coach in the business and Lebron dont want to have anything to do with Melo coming to the Cavs. The Knicks never should have traded for Melo, or resign Melo!
KP is a natural 7.3 center on any team, the problem is KP is clueless n knows nothing about being a NBA center or PF in the league. KP need a big-man coach like Lonnie Divac
Rose were brought to the Knicks as the player to blame if the Knicks fail from giving Melo n KP the greenlight on offense. The Knicks defense starts with KP n Melo the reason why the Knicks are the weakest defensive team in the NBA
arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:I still think we end up dealing Melo to LAC with Rivers coming back as the main piece. We are transition into building around KP, and with that, i want to draft a PG and surround this young core with shooting, playmaking, and defensive players. Free agency i am looking for diamonds in the rough, in addition to resigning Jennings and Holiday. Ian Clark is my diamond in the rough choice. I'm also trying to trade O'Quinn for a future 1st round pick because i don't see us paying him big money after next season.C Porzingis/Noah/Plumlee
PF Hernangomez/Kuz
SF Lee/Holiday/Thomas
SG Rivers/Clark/Baker
PG Fox/JenningsNotice Lee and Holiday at the SF. Might be a little out of position, but we will instantly become more athletic at the 1, 2, and 3 and be able to run a lot more. I think they can hold up at the position just fine, and when playing teams that are bigger at SF, we will still have Lance Thomas to play some minutes there. The team is loaded with shooters, defenders, and playmakers to surround KP and Willy.
I would keep OQ and use Kuz at SF...
Lee is too small...
Rivers can be a necessity only if Melo will be traded and Clark is a gamble. But if we can get him we can have some overload of guards which is always good in modern NBA.
But in general star 2-way player at SF will be the missing peace in 2-3 years regardless of Melo being traded of finishing his contract in NY.
Yeah i don't mind keeping O'Quinn at all, i just don't think we will resign him for big money to back up KP and Willy with 72M Noah already off the bench. Kuz would naturally play minutes at SF no doubt. Also, we might get Brice Johnson in a Melo deal, who can be a solid PF/C when he is finally healthy. And i do however think Lee is strong and athletic enough to guard most SFs, as well as Holiday. The league is smaller and faster now, so there are only a handful of SFs who will be tough matchups. Most of the role players and 3 and D guys playing SF today won't be a matchup issue.
Kemet wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Melo is better at 4 no question about it.
We already have a great young player at 4 in KP.
We already have a good young player at 5 in Willy.Playing Melo at 3 for now makes sense for the young players and long term growth. Ideally you trade him for a Jae Crowder type of 3 (good defender, catch and shoot player) and Rose plays every game like he did the Clippers (looking to pass on drives). Draft the most athletic 2/3 wing in the lottery and now you have some young players playing with an attacking point guard that can pass. Team has defense at the perimeter. We don't have ball stopppers. More in line with what teams that contend have or like to play. After that it's about how good your young players become in their respective roles.
An athletic 3 and 2 will change the way this team defends. Less dribble penetration allowed. More pressure and turn overs on passes. Better rotations. Bigs have to help less on defense. Most important a core that has enough gas in the tank to play defense and run on offense (Hornys style of play) something the current core just does not have.
Ever wonder why fans ask why is Melo not clutch anymore? Well the gas tank. The older players on this team are not suited for Horny system and style of play. We can move anyone to any position but the problem with the gas tank will always remain. It's part of the reason we can't close games in the 4th. By the 4th this teams vets are usually tired.
Melo need to be traded to the Spurs so coach Pop could define his position and how many minute he deserve on the court. Lebron happen to be the best player/coach in the business and Lebron dont want to have anything to do with Melo coming to the Cavs. The Knicks never should have traded for Melo, or resign Melo!KP is a natural 7.3 center on any team, the problem is KP is clueless n knows nothing about being a NBA center or PF in the league. KP need a big-man coach like Lonnie Divac
Rose were brought to the Knicks as the player to blame if the Knicks fail from giving Melo n KP the greenlight on offense. The Knicks defense starts with KP n Melo the reason why the Knicks are the weakest defensive team in the NBA
Pop in notorious in staying away from players like Melo.
Melo is everything that Pop considered wrong in bbal.
He is not into the mind games of changing players behavior like Phil.
Melo will also be insane to sign with the team GMd and coached by Pop-alike.
Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:I still think we end up dealing Melo to LAC with Rivers coming back as the main piece. We are transition into building around KP, and with that, i want to draft a PG and surround this young core with shooting, playmaking, and defensive players. Free agency i am looking for diamonds in the rough, in addition to resigning Jennings and Holiday. Ian Clark is my diamond in the rough choice. I'm also trying to trade O'Quinn for a future 1st round pick because i don't see us paying him big money after next season.C Porzingis/Noah/Plumlee
PF Hernangomez/Kuz
SF Lee/Holiday/Thomas
SG Rivers/Clark/Baker
PG Fox/JenningsNotice Lee and Holiday at the SF. Might be a little out of position, but we will instantly become more athletic at the 1, 2, and 3 and be able to run a lot more. I think they can hold up at the position just fine, and when playing teams that are bigger at SF, we will still have Lance Thomas to play some minutes there. The team is loaded with shooters, defenders, and playmakers to surround KP and Willy.
I would keep OQ and use Kuz at SF...
Lee is too small...
Rivers can be a necessity only if Melo will be traded and Clark is a gamble. But if we can get him we can have some overload of guards which is always good in modern NBA.
But in general star 2-way player at SF will be the missing peace in 2-3 years regardless of Melo being traded of finishing his contract in NY.Yeah i don't mind keeping O'Quinn at all, i just don't think we will resign him for big money to back up KP and Willy with 72M Noah already off the bench. Kuz would naturally play minutes at SF no doubt. Also, we might get Brice Johnson in a Melo deal, who can be a solid PF/C when he is finally healthy. And i do however think Lee is strong and athletic enough to guard most SFs, as well as Holiday. The league is smaller and faster now, so there are only a handful of SFs who will be tough matchups. Most of the role players and 3 and D guys playing SF today won't be a matchup issue.
Quinn's Big-Body in the paint are the reason why last season 2nd unit of D.Will, Lance, Galloway, Grant did so well on offense/defense.
In the 2016-17 season Kyle O'Quinn's outstanding performance in the Knicks first 10 games of the season prove night after night to be a 30 minute player in the Knicks rotation.
Having rookie Willie and Quinn come off the bench to be in the same lineup alongside Jennings, Holiday, n rookie Kuz as a 2nd unit lineup for 8 straight minutes happen to be a much better transition-scoring and defensive-rebounding lineup than the Knicks starter lineup.