Knicks · Play By Play Tells A Story (page 1)
KP is actually better when you have him on the floor with the younger guys most notably Justin Holiday and Willy. No they aren't perfect either but MAN are they so much better than when we have Melo, Rose and Lee in there. There's no question about it. There's no way to really avoid the BAD LINEUPS with this roster. Tho I do think they could be limited by Hornacek, but he'd have to be willing to hurt some feelings with Vets. Look at the +/- for Melo, Rose and Lee!!!
STARTERS MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
K. Porzingis PF 33 7-14 2-4 1-2 2 2 4 2 1 1 1 3 -3 17
C. Anthony SF 35 13-20 6-10 1-2 1 5 6 4 2 0 2 2 -13 33
D. Rose PG 28 6-9 0-0 1-1 1 2 3 4 1 0 1 0 -15 13
B. Jennings PG 39 2-10 2-6 0-0 1 1 2 13 1 0 0 1 -2 6
C. Lee SG 31 6-10 3-7 0-0 0 3 3 4 2 0 2 5 -8 15
BENCH MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
M. Ndour SF 3 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 -3 0
K. O'Quinn C 22 8-9 0-1 0-0 2 4 6 3 0 4 2 2 +6 16
W. Hernangomez C 9 6-7 0-0 0-0 2 2 4 0 0 0 1 0 -6 12
J. Holiday SG 20 3-8 3-8 0-0 0 2 2 2 2 0 1 0 +2 9
R. Baker SG 20 1-4 0-2 0-0 0 1 1 4 1 0 0 1 +2 2
Look at the 2nd quarter as an example.
2nd Quarter
TIME TEAM PLAY SCORE
11:40 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Brandon Jennings assists) 34 - 34
11:23 Juancho Hernangomez misses 25-foot three point jumper 34 - 34
11:22 Kristaps Porzingis defensive rebound 34 - 34
11:14 Brandon Jennings makes 24-foot three point jumper 34 - 37
10:48 Jamal Murray misses 19-foot two point shot 34 - 37
10:45 Jusuf Nurkic offensive rebound 34 - 37
10:44 Jusuf Nurkic makes layup 36 - 37
10:33 Justin Holiday makes three point jumper (Ron Baker assists) 36 - 40
10:22 Jusuf Nurkic bad pass (Justin Holiday steals) 36 - 40
10:15 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Ron Baker assists) 36 - 42
10:15 Nuggets Full timeout 36 - 42
9:59 Kyle O'Quinn blocks Jusuf Nurkic's layup 36 - 42
9:56 Will Barton offensive rebound 36 - 42
9:51 Juancho Hernangomez misses 24-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:49 Nuggets offensive team rebound 36 - 42
9:37 Jamal Murray Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 36 - 42
9:15 Brandon Jennings misses 25-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:12 Jusuf Nurkic defensive rebound 36 - 42
9:07 Darrell Arthur misses 25-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:06 Justin Holiday defensive rebound 36 - 42
8:52 Kristaps Porzingis makes driving dunk (Kyle O'Quinn assists) 36 - 44
8:33 Kristaps Porzingis shooting foul (Will Barton draws the foul) 36 - 44
8:33 Will Barton makes free throw 1 of 3 37 - 44
8:33 Will Barton makes free throw 2 of 3 38 - 44
8:33 Willy Hernangomez enters the game for Kyle O'Quinn 38 - 44
8:33 Will Barton misses free throw 3 of 3 38 - 44
8:33 Willy Hernangomez defensive rebound 38 - 44
8:18 Justin Holiday makes 24-foot 3 point jumper (K Porzingis assists) 38 - 47
8:11 Darrell Arthur makes two point shot (Will Barton assists) 40 - 47
8:00 Justin Holiday misses 23-foot three point jumper 40 - 47
7:58 Brandon Jennings offensive rebound 40 - 47
7:50 Darrell Arthur shooting foul (Kristaps Porzingis draws the foul) 40 - 47
7:50 Kristaps Porzingis misses free throw 1 of 2 40 - 47
7:50 Knicks offensive team rebound 40 - 47
7:50 Kristaps Porzingis makes free throw 2 of 2 40 - 48
7:33 Jamal Murray out of bounds lost ball turnover 40 - 48
7:33 Gary Harris enters the game for Juancho Hernangomez 40 - 48
7:26 Jusuf Nurkic personal foul (Willy Hernangomez draws the foul) 40 - 48
7:26 Nikola Jokic enters the game for Jusuf Nurkic 40 - 48
7:22 Willy Hernangomez makes layup (Ron Baker assists) 40 - 50
7:05 Darrell Arthur misses jumper 40 - 50
7:03 Brandon Jennings defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:58 Ron Baker misses 23-foot three point jumper 40 - 50
6:56 Darrell Arthur defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:50 Gary Harris misses 25-foot three point jumper 40 - 50
6:48 Willy Hernangomez defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:41 Brandon Jennings misses driving layup 40 - 50
6:39 Willy Hernangomez makes two point shot 40 - 52
6:39 Willy Hernangomez offensive rebound 40 - 50
6:22 Nikola Jokic makes layup 42 - 52
6:16 Ron Baker makes layup (Brandon Jennings assists) 42 - 54
6:15 Jameer Nelson enters the game for Darrell Arthur 42 - 54
6:15 Wilson Chandler enters the game for Jamal Murray 42 - 54
5:52 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot jumper (Will Barton assists) 44 - 54
5:39 Kristaps Porzingis misses 25-foot three point jumper 44 - 54
5:37 Will Barton defensive rebound 44 - 54
5:31 Will Barton misses 25-foot three point jumper 44 - 54
5:30 Knicks defensive team rebound 44 - 54
5:30 Official timeout 44 - 54
5:30 Derrick Rose enters the game for Brandon Jennings 44 - 54
5:30 Courtney Lee enters the game for Justin Holiday 44 - 54
5:30 Carmelo Anthony enters the game for Ron Baker 44 - 54
5:16 Courtney Lee Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 44 - 54
5:03 Wilson Chandler makes driving layup (Jameer Nelson assists) 46 - 54
4:50 Will Barton shooting foul (Carmelo Anthony draws the foul) 46 - 54
4:50 Carmelo Anthony misses free throw 1 of 2 46 - 54
4:50 Knicks offensive team rebound 46 - 54
4:50 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 2 of 2 46 - 55
4:26 Will Barton makes 25-foot 3 point jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 49 - 55
4:09 Willy Hernangomez makes layup 49 - 57
4:00 Nikola Jokic makes driving layup 51 - 57
3:46 Willy Hernangomez misses layup 51 - 57
3:45 Gary Harris defensive rebound 51 - 57
3:39 Will Barton misses two point shot 51 - 57
3:38 Gary Harris offensive rebound 51 - 57
3:31 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 53 - 57
3:31 Knicks Full timeout 53 - 57
3:31 Ron Baker enters the game for Kristaps Porzingis 53 - 57
3:31 Kyle O'Quinn enters the game for Willy Hernangomez 53 - 57
3:17 Wilson Chandler blocks Derrick Rose 's 2-foot layup 53 - 57
3:16 Kyle O'Quinn offensive rebound 53 - 57
3:09 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 53 - 57
3:06 Nikola Jokic defensive rebound 53 - 57
2:55 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot two point shot (Jameer Nelson assists) 55 - 57
2:55 Courtney Lee shooting foul (Nikola Jokic draws the foul) 55 - 57
2:55 Nikola Jokic makes free throw 1 of 1 56 - 57
2:40 Kyle O'Quinn makes 15-foot two point shot (Derrick Rose assists) 56 - 59
2:23 Wilson Chandler bad pass (Ron Baker steals) 56 - 59
2:17 Derrick Rose makes 6-foot two point shot (Ron Baker assists) 56 - 61
2:17 Jameer Nelson shooting foul (Derrick Rose draws the foul) 56 - 61
2:17 Derrick Rose makes free throw 1 of 1 56 - 62
2:03 Gary Harris makes driving layup (Nikola Jokic assists) 58 - 62
1:52 Carmelo Anthony makes 21-foot jumper (Kyle O'Quinn assists) 58 - 64
1:40 Gary Harris Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 58 - 64
1:29 Courtney Lee misses 23-foot three point jumper 58 - 64
1:27 Nikola Jokic defensive rebound 58 - 64
1:14 Ron Baker personal foul (Jameer Nelson draws the foul) 58 - 64
1:10 Nikola Jokic misses 14-foot jumper 58 - 64
1:08 Carmelo Anthony defensive rebound 58 - 64
1:00 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Carmelo Anthony assists) 58 - 66
0:53 Jameer Nelson makes 25-foot three pointer 61 - 66
0:48 Derrick Rose lost ball turnover (Gary Harris steals) 61 - 66
0:40 Will Barton lost ball turnover (Courtney Lee steals) 61 - 66
0:28 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 61 - 66
0:26 Jameer Nelson defensive rebound 61 - 66
0:07 Gary Harris makes three point jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 64 - 66
0:00 End of the 2nd Quarter 64 - 66
nixluva wrote:I think one thing that is a sign of the Knicks issues has been the fact that the starters when they include Melo, Rose and Lee in particular just doesn't work. All 3 are doing so poorly defensively that it destroys the Knicks ability to get off to good starts and when the bench gets a lead or makes a comeback the trio of Melo, Rose and Lee simply doesn't hold the lead or sustain the comeback. In the end this is the real story of this season. Melo Defensive Rating is 112, Lee 115 and Rose 115. They've even impacted KP's defense negatively. He was not this bad but seems to have lost his way on D.KP is actually better when you have him on the floor with the younger guys most notably Justin Holiday and Willy. No they aren't perfect either but MAN are they so much better than when we have Melo, Rose and Lee in there. There's no question about it. There's no way to really avoid the BAD LINEUPS with this roster. Tho I do think they could be limited by Hornacek, but he'd have to be willing to hurt some feelings with Vets. Look at the +/- for Melo, Rose and Lee!!!
STARTERS MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
K. Porzingis PF 33 7-14 2-4 1-2 2 2 4 2 1 1 1 3 -3 17
C. Anthony SF 35 13-20 6-10 1-2 1 5 6 4 2 0 2 2 -13 33
D. Rose PG 28 6-9 0-0 1-1 1 2 3 4 1 0 1 0 -15 13
B. Jennings PG 39 2-10 2-6 0-0 1 1 2 13 1 0 0 1 -2 6
C. Lee SG 31 6-10 3-7 0-0 0 3 3 4 2 0 2 5 -8 15
BENCH MIN FG 3PT FT OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
M. Ndour SF 3 0-2 0-0 0-0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 -3 0
K. O'Quinn C 22 8-9 0-1 0-0 2 4 6 3 0 4 2 2 +6 16
W. Hernangomez C 9 6-7 0-0 0-0 2 2 4 0 0 0 1 0 -6 12
J. Holiday SG 20 3-8 3-8 0-0 0 2 2 2 2 0 1 0 +2 9
R. Baker SG 20 1-4 0-2 0-0 0 1 1 4 1 0 0 1 +2 2Look at the 2nd quarter as an example.
2nd Quarter
TIME TEAM PLAY SCORE
11:40 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Brandon Jennings assists) 34 - 34
11:23 Juancho Hernangomez misses 25-foot three point jumper 34 - 34
11:22 Kristaps Porzingis defensive rebound 34 - 34
11:14 Brandon Jennings makes 24-foot three point jumper 34 - 37
10:48 Jamal Murray misses 19-foot two point shot 34 - 37
10:45 Jusuf Nurkic offensive rebound 34 - 37
10:44 Jusuf Nurkic makes layup 36 - 37
10:33 Justin Holiday makes three point jumper (Ron Baker assists) 36 - 40
10:22 Jusuf Nurkic bad pass (Justin Holiday steals) 36 - 40
10:15 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Ron Baker assists) 36 - 42
10:15 Nuggets Full timeout 36 - 42
9:59 Kyle O'Quinn blocks Jusuf Nurkic's layup 36 - 42
9:56 Will Barton offensive rebound 36 - 42
9:51 Juancho Hernangomez misses 24-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:49 Nuggets offensive team rebound 36 - 42
9:37 Jamal Murray Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 36 - 42
9:15 Brandon Jennings misses 25-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:12 Jusuf Nurkic defensive rebound 36 - 42
9:07 Darrell Arthur misses 25-foot three point jumper 36 - 42
9:06 Justin Holiday defensive rebound 36 - 42
8:52 Kristaps Porzingis makes driving dunk (Kyle O'Quinn assists) 36 - 44
8:33 Kristaps Porzingis shooting foul (Will Barton draws the foul) 36 - 44
8:33 Will Barton makes free throw 1 of 3 37 - 44
8:33 Will Barton makes free throw 2 of 3 38 - 44
8:33 Willy Hernangomez enters the game for Kyle O'Quinn 38 - 44
8:33 Will Barton misses free throw 3 of 3 38 - 44
8:33 Willy Hernangomez defensive rebound 38 - 44
8:18 Justin Holiday makes 24-foot 3 point jumper (K Porzingis assists) 38 - 47
8:11 Darrell Arthur makes two point shot (Will Barton assists) 40 - 47
8:00 Justin Holiday misses 23-foot three point jumper 40 - 47
7:58 Brandon Jennings offensive rebound 40 - 47
7:50 Darrell Arthur shooting foul (Kristaps Porzingis draws the foul) 40 - 47
7:50 Kristaps Porzingis misses free throw 1 of 2 40 - 47
7:50 Knicks offensive team rebound 40 - 47
7:50 Kristaps Porzingis makes free throw 2 of 2 40 - 48
7:33 Jamal Murray out of bounds lost ball turnover 40 - 48
7:33 Gary Harris enters the game for Juancho Hernangomez 40 - 48
7:26 Jusuf Nurkic personal foul (Willy Hernangomez draws the foul) 40 - 48
7:26 Nikola Jokic enters the game for Jusuf Nurkic 40 - 48
7:22 Willy Hernangomez makes layup (Ron Baker assists) 40 - 50
7:05 Darrell Arthur misses jumper 40 - 50
7:03 Brandon Jennings defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:58 Ron Baker misses 23-foot three point jumper 40 - 50
6:56 Darrell Arthur defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:50 Gary Harris misses 25-foot three point jumper 40 - 50
6:48 Willy Hernangomez defensive rebound 40 - 50
6:41 Brandon Jennings misses driving layup 40 - 50
6:39 Willy Hernangomez makes two point shot 40 - 52
6:39 Willy Hernangomez offensive rebound 40 - 50
6:22 Nikola Jokic makes layup 42 - 52
6:16 Ron Baker makes layup (Brandon Jennings assists) 42 - 54
6:15 Jameer Nelson enters the game for Darrell Arthur 42 - 54
6:15 Wilson Chandler enters the game for Jamal Murray 42 - 54
5:52 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot jumper (Will Barton assists) 44 - 54
5:39 Kristaps Porzingis misses 25-foot three point jumper 44 - 54
5:37 Will Barton defensive rebound 44 - 54
5:31 Will Barton misses 25-foot three point jumper 44 - 54
5:30 Knicks defensive team rebound 44 - 54
5:30 Official timeout 44 - 54
5:30 Derrick Rose enters the game for Brandon Jennings 44 - 54
5:30 Courtney Lee enters the game for Justin Holiday 44 - 54
5:30 Carmelo Anthony enters the game for Ron Baker 44 - 54
5:16 Courtney Lee Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 44 - 54
5:03 Wilson Chandler makes driving layup (Jameer Nelson assists) 46 - 54
4:50 Will Barton shooting foul (Carmelo Anthony draws the foul) 46 - 54
4:50 Carmelo Anthony misses free throw 1 of 2 46 - 54
4:50 Knicks offensive team rebound 46 - 54
4:50 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 2 of 2 46 - 55
4:26 Will Barton makes 25-foot 3 point jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 49 - 55
4:09 Willy Hernangomez makes layup 49 - 57
4:00 Nikola Jokic makes driving layup 51 - 57
3:46 Willy Hernangomez misses layup 51 - 57
3:45 Gary Harris defensive rebound 51 - 57
3:39 Will Barton misses two point shot 51 - 57
3:38 Gary Harris offensive rebound 51 - 57
3:31 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 53 - 57
3:31 Knicks Full timeout 53 - 57
3:31 Ron Baker enters the game for Kristaps Porzingis 53 - 57
3:31 Kyle O'Quinn enters the game for Willy Hernangomez 53 - 57
3:17 Wilson Chandler blocks Derrick Rose 's 2-foot layup 53 - 57
3:16 Kyle O'Quinn offensive rebound 53 - 57
3:09 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 53 - 57
3:06 Nikola Jokic defensive rebound 53 - 57
2:55 Nikola Jokic makes 6-foot two point shot (Jameer Nelson assists) 55 - 57
2:55 Courtney Lee shooting foul (Nikola Jokic draws the foul) 55 - 57
2:55 Nikola Jokic makes free throw 1 of 1 56 - 57
2:40 Kyle O'Quinn makes 15-foot two point shot (Derrick Rose assists) 56 - 59
2:23 Wilson Chandler bad pass (Ron Baker steals) 56 - 59
2:17 Derrick Rose makes 6-foot two point shot (Ron Baker assists) 56 - 61
2:17 Jameer Nelson shooting foul (Derrick Rose draws the foul) 56 - 61
2:17 Derrick Rose makes free throw 1 of 1 56 - 62
2:03 Gary Harris makes driving layup (Nikola Jokic assists) 58 - 62
1:52 Carmelo Anthony makes 21-foot jumper (Kyle O'Quinn assists) 58 - 64
1:40 Gary Harris Out-of-Bounds Bad Pass Turnover 58 - 64
1:29 Courtney Lee misses 23-foot three point jumper 58 - 64
1:27 Nikola Jokic defensive rebound 58 - 64
1:14 Ron Baker personal foul (Jameer Nelson draws the foul) 58 - 64
1:10 Nikola Jokic misses 14-foot jumper 58 - 64
1:08 Carmelo Anthony defensive rebound 58 - 64
1:00 Kyle O'Quinn makes layup (Carmelo Anthony assists) 58 - 66
0:53 Jameer Nelson makes 25-foot three pointer 61 - 66
0:48 Derrick Rose lost ball turnover (Gary Harris steals) 61 - 66
0:40 Will Barton lost ball turnover (Courtney Lee steals) 61 - 66
0:28 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 61 - 66
0:26 Jameer Nelson defensive rebound 61 - 66
0:07 Gary Harris makes three point jumper (Jameer Nelson assists) 64 - 66
0:00 End of the 2nd Quarter 64 - 66
Good analysis. I was at friday's game and can attest that it opened my eyes. This team is filled with talented veterans who have no chemistry together. None.
When Melo rejoins the court all the energy exits the building. He's just become a liability. he'll make a basket, whack his head like the team is winning but they're down 12 and he gives it back on the other end.
Bodies need to be moved. When Baker is on the floor it reminds you of the D'Antoni teams - ssol. So much fun and a pleasure to watch.
fwk00 wrote:Good analysis. I was at friday's game and can attest that it opened my eyes. This team is filled with talented veterans who have no chemistry together. None.When Melo rejoins the court all the energy exits the building. He's just become a liability. he'll make a basket, whack his head like the team is winning but they're down 12 and he gives it back on the other end.
Bodies need to be moved. When Baker is on the floor it reminds you of the D'Antoni teams - ssol. So much fun and a pleasure to watch.
Yeah THX. I watched how the young guys played and the touch passes by Baker just let you know how different this team will be when we turn it over to the younger guys and add more young talent. No we won't have a multi=time All Star but we can try to develop a real TEAM. I'm ready for that now and I hope that all Knicks fans are ready for that.
I don't know how any fan can watch this team and not notice the MASSIVE gap in effort from the starters to when we have the young guys in there. It's just like a light switch is flipped. I want to see MORE of that kind of ball even if the young guys still lose it's better to have a game where we can see these kids learn how to win games playing team ball.
Rose in particular plays like an entitled brat. I really don't understand him at all. Surely he doesn't think this is going to get him a Max Contract!!! I can't imagine anyone is going to offer him a good contract playing the way he's been playing. It's such a waste of talent. You can see he's perfectly fine right now. He just doesn't give his all. He should be embarrassed with the way he's handled himself.
nixluva wrote:fwk00 wrote:Good analysis. I was at friday's game and can attest that it opened my eyes. This team is filled with talented veterans who have no chemistry together. None.When Melo rejoins the court all the energy exits the building. He's just become a liability. he'll make a basket, whack his head like the team is winning but they're down 12 and he gives it back on the other end.
Bodies need to be moved. When Baker is on the floor it reminds you of the D'Antoni teams - ssol. So much fun and a pleasure to watch.
Yeah THX. I watched how the young guys played and the touch passes by Baker just let you know how different this team will be when we turn it over to the younger guys and add more young talent. No we won't have a multi=time All Star but we can try to develop a real TEAM. I'm ready for that now and I hope that all Knicks fans are ready for that.
I don't know how any fan can watch this team and not notice the MASSIVE gap in effort from the starters to when we have the young guys in there. It's just like a light switch is flipped. I want to see MORE of that kind of ball even if the young guys still lose it's better to have a game where we can see these kids learn how to win games playing team ball.
Rose in particular plays like an entitled brat. I really don't understand him at all. Surely he doesn't think this is going to get him a Max Contract!!! I can't imagine anyone is going to offer him a good contract playing the way he's been playing. It's such a waste of talent. You can see he's perfectly fine right now. He just doesn't give his all. He should be embarrassed with the way he's handled himself.
Rose has some mental issues probably developed due to his injuries.
He is scared of contact on defense and at times he is drifting away mentally.
Melo is another head case. At times he looks like a person who has no idea what he is doing here.
No wonder as his presence on this team make no sense anymore already for a while.
They both need to see psychologist...
arkrud wrote:nixluva wrote:fwk00 wrote:Good analysis. I was at friday's game and can attest that it opened my eyes. This team is filled with talented veterans who have no chemistry together. None.When Melo rejoins the court all the energy exits the building. He's just become a liability. he'll make a basket, whack his head like the team is winning but they're down 12 and he gives it back on the other end.
Bodies need to be moved. When Baker is on the floor it reminds you of the D'Antoni teams - ssol. So much fun and a pleasure to watch.
Yeah THX. I watched how the young guys played and the touch passes by Baker just let you know how different this team will be when we turn it over to the younger guys and add more young talent. No we won't have a multi=time All Star but we can try to develop a real TEAM. I'm ready for that now and I hope that all Knicks fans are ready for that.
I don't know how any fan can watch this team and not notice the MASSIVE gap in effort from the starters to when we have the young guys in there. It's just like a light switch is flipped. I want to see MORE of that kind of ball even if the young guys still lose it's better to have a game where we can see these kids learn how to win games playing team ball.
Rose in particular plays like an entitled brat. I really don't understand him at all. Surely he doesn't think this is going to get him a Max Contract!!! I can't imagine anyone is going to offer him a good contract playing the way he's been playing. It's such a waste of talent. You can see he's perfectly fine right now. He just doesn't give his all. He should be embarrassed with the way he's handled himself.
Rose has some mental issues probably developed due to his injuries.
He is scared of contact on defense and at times he is drifting away mentally.
Melo is another head case. At times he looks like a person who has no idea what he is doing here.
No wonder as his presence on this team make no sense anymore already for a while.
They both need to see psychologist...
Well, they need a few things starting with, "You suck, you sit."
But I agree with nixluva that too many fans are blinded by the individual weaknesses of the younger players to not see how effective they are as a unit - far better than the veteran star lineups.