Knicks · Knicks must tank (page 1)

We're not going to win the NBA championship
No chance against a team like Cleveland and certainly not in front of Golden State
There are young players develop, trade Carmelo for DRAFT picks & young players
If we lose a lot of games
We get a high draft choice
We'll start walking in the right direction for the future

I feel Carmelo goes to LA ... Clippers
We need a third team Who has a good young player and draft picks

what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

Far worse - we saw a team that has basically mailed it in, and decided - yes, maybe we'll show up now and ruin our draft position.

We'll win meaningless games down the stretch, and miss the play offs, and ruin our chances to grab a franchise changing talent, just like we did years ago when we missed out on drafting Stephen Curry to grab Jordan Hill.

Phil needs to throw in the towel on the season, and if he can't trade Rose, release him, and tell Jeff his job is safe and is to develop the youth vs. trying to win games.

And I think yesterday was as much about the effort of the Knicks as it was about SA just having an off day.

PLAYERS AND COACHES DON'T TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No team is tanking on purpose.
I mean the goals can be different but the players and coaches always are trying to win the game.
We all know that Melo time in NY is over and sooner or later he will move on.
But in the meantime he has his own goals to score more points.
A couple more games and it will be clear that we are not getting into postseason and time to play young players to learn what they can bring and let them improve. Melo should understand this and make his choices on what he want to do. Have a long vacation with no bbal and points until next season or go play somewhere with a purpose.
Same is true for Rose. But he may stick around and take it easy too. He need to reestablish himself and with Melo out it can be an opportunity.
I think tanking is not necessary. We will get same pick naturally.

The team is not going to tank, the players will continue to play hundred percent.

It is the management term and their decision to tank and to bottom out but I don't see this franchise to do this.

stopstandthere wrote:The team is not going to tank, the players will continue to play hundred percent.

It is the management term and their decision to tank and to bottom out but I don't see this franchise to do this.

just keep playing rose and melo and noah when he comes back major mins, that's auto tank for you

Tanking need only be applied when you are a net seller of talent.
If Phil is trying to deal Melo, might he throwing in the towel on the season?

Finishing the season with Melo and a record worth a mid first round pick would be an absolute disaster- we're not signing a top PG, Melo would be a year older, it would be a disaster

As long as we are bad enough to land an elite talent in the draft, which is top 12 right now, we are ok. We really need one of the PGs.

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

What you saw was the Spurs taking them for granted.

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

What you saw was the Spurs taking them for granted.

Im sure that happens. LIke when knicks took Nuggets for granted?
Not Kawai. That dude is a killer!!!!
I saw good defense, I saw intensity and execution.
I did not see a team that has given up. What else do you call a tank?

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

What you saw was the Spurs taking them for granted.

Im sure that happens. LIke when knicks took Nuggets for granted?
Not Kawai. That dude is a killer!!!!
I saw good defense, I saw intensity and execution.
I did not see a team that has given up. What else do you call a tank?

I saw Parker score 0 points that doesn't happen often.

I agree the team should tank. It's more important now to get a 6th pick or higher in the draft than make an ill-fated race for the playoffs.

The 6th pick in this draft will be a better player than we could ever ever ever hope to get in FA.

TANK, PHIL. TANK.

Nalod wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

What you saw was the Spurs taking them for granted.

Im sure that happens. LIke when knicks took Nuggets for granted?
Not Kawai. That dude is a killer!!!!
I saw good defense, I saw intensity and execution.
I did not see a team that has given up. What else do you call a tank?

I saw Tony Parker a d Aldridge playing at 50% at best absolutely mailed it in. They got up 12-14 and died on the table.

Vmart wrote:

Nalod wrote:what you saw yesterday was not a team in tank mode.

What you saw was the Spurs taking them for granted.

Of course that wasn't the Spurs on all cylinders, but the Knicks do have the ability to win more games than would be good for us. They also could just as easily go right back to low effort again. In order to safely tank Phil is gonna have to make a trade. We don't need a few wins to be the difference between a STUD draft pick and another one of those wasted picks.

tank

Negatives

1-Phils credibility takes an even bigger hit
2-dimishes value to every single player on the roster
3-your developing your 2 young future stars (kp/willy)in a losing environment
4-No player wants to be part of a rebuilding process, especially FA.
5-it will be tough to even retain your own FA
5-people get fired a lot quicker
6-there isn't a cp3,kidd, wall, type that will instantly change our fortunes

Postives-

1- Potential high level young role player

knicks1248 wrote:tank

Negatives

1-Phils credibility takes an even bigger hit
2-dimishes value to every single player on the roster
3-your developing your 2 young future stars (kp/willy)in a losing environment
4-No player wants to be part of a rebuilding process, especially FA.
5-it will be tough to even retain your own FA
5-people get fired a lot quicker
6-there isn't a cp3,kidd, wall, type that will instantly change our fortunes

Postives-

1- Potential high level young role player

lets be honest for 16 years we tried the "winning" way and failed. Free agents havent exactly run to us. I want to try a true rebuild and focusing on building through the draft

nadavshomron wrote:
We're not going to win the NBA championship
No chance against a team like Cleveland and certainly not in front of Golden State
There are young players develop, trade Carmelo for DRAFT picks & young players
If we lose a lot of games
We get a high draft choice
We'll start walking in the right direction for the future

I feel Carmelo goes to LA ... Clippers
We need a third team Who has a good young player and draft picks

Wow, I was saying this way back in 2009. Sadly, Knick management never sees things this way. I'm not convinced they will ever change.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:tank

Negatives

1-Phils credibility takes an even bigger hit
2-dimishes value to every single player on the roster
3-your developing your 2 young future stars (kp/willy)in a losing environment
4-No player wants to be part of a rebuilding process, especially FA.
5-it will be tough to even retain your own FA
5-people get fired a lot quicker
6-there isn't a cp3,kidd, wall, type that will instantly change our fortunes

Postives-

1- Potential high level young role player

lets be honest for 16 years we tried the "winning" way and failed. Free agents havent exactly run to us. I want to try a true rebuild and focusing on building through the draft

current plan looks good to me. Lets see what Phil does at the deadline. If Phil doesnt hit HRs on Willy and KP he's just another Isiah, but those players have given me enough hope and we have a couple young bigs worth building around. Kuz, KOQ, Lee, Lance and Noah are all good players. Rose and Melo are epic ball stoppers and dont defend. Not blame at this point, just poor fits. Moving them IMO would start the "true" rebuild you mention. We should have a good pick in this draft.

There is no good way to lose unpurpose. However if we can move Rose/Melo at the deadline you run the young guys out there. If we are winning games and killing the tank we are doing so with players in our long term plan. If they take their lumps we get better draft position. To me that is the only way to play this.

Rose is a hell of a scorer. So is Melo. Both bring good things to the table but need the right fit. Willy/Noah/KOQ/Lee/Jennings/Lance are all ball movers. KP/Melo/Rose are all ball stoppers. To quote someone "its a clumsy roster" and overall there is good talent but poor fit.

Lets see if Phil can turn this into something he's built and something positive. Right now its still Melo's team and thoughts or hopes of him taking the backseat or being DadMelo are not realistic. He views himself as the face of the franchise and the one who shoulders the blame for things not going right. Thats a problem as his solution to that is to shoot more. We just need to move on.

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:tank

Negatives

1-Phils credibility takes an even bigger hit
2-dimishes value to every single player on the roster
3-your developing your 2 young future stars (kp/willy)in a losing environment
4-No player wants to be part of a rebuilding process, especially FA.
5-it will be tough to even retain your own FA
5-people get fired a lot quicker
6-there isn't a cp3,kidd, wall, type that will instantly change our fortunes

Postives-

1- Potential high level young role player

lets be honest for 16 years we tried the "winning" way and failed. Free agents havent exactly run to us. I want to try a true rebuild and focusing on building through the draft

current plan looks good to me. Lets see what Phil does at the deadline. If Phil doesnt hit HRs on Willy and KP he's just another Isiah, but those players have given me enough hope and we have a couple young bigs worth building around. Kuz, KOQ, Lee, Lance and Noah are all good players. Rose and Melo are epic ball stoppers and dont defend. Not blame at this point, just poor fits. Moving them IMO would start the "true" rebuild you mention. We should have a good pick in this draft.

There is no good way to lose unpurpose. However if we can move Rose/Melo at the deadline you run the young guys out there. If we are winning games and killing the tank we are doing so with players in our long term plan. If they take their lumps we get better draft position. To me that is the only way to play this.

Rose is a hell of a scorer. So is Melo. Both bring good things to the table but need the right fit. Willy/Noah/KOQ/Lee/Jennings/Lance are all ball movers. KP/Melo/Rose are all ball stoppers. To quote someone "its a clumsy roster" and overall there is good talent but poor fit.

Lets see if Phil can turn this into something he's built and something positive. Right now its still Melo's team and thoughts or hopes of him taking the backseat or being DadMelo are not realistic. He views himself as the face of the franchise and the one who shoulders the blame for things not going right. Thats a problem as his solution to that is to shoot more. We just need to move on.

ok, no beef with your assessment.

just a reminder, Early was drafted ahead of Willy. It's 10x harder to draft a stud because it's unknown.

The problem I have with melo and rose is that, 85% of the board new that rose and melo was probably not a good fit, so how is it that phil and his team didn't realize that.

How did that same team not realize Noah was a back up center, and not a near max player.

Why did they give up on THJ so soon, to take grant, then trade him months later.

Why offer a NTC for 60 months, then try and trade the same play away 19 moths later. The fisher thing, the woodson firing.

Why put together a talented roster, than 3 months later try and dismantle it, without giving at least a season and a 1/2 to grow with a new coaching staff.

Why preach patience, but be so quick to blow up everything you do in a matter of months.

How can I trust some one after all these misshaps