It's been 18 years since Dolan has taken over and we are worse off than what he inherited, no pun intended..James Dolan isn't going anywhere...We need to rebuild this organization for the long term..We need NYers, essentially people who knows the team, media, and the type of players that can thrive here..Dolan needs an infrastructure around him. He isn't good at running the team and isn't good at hiring people to run the run...He needs buffers that can run the organization and know basketball..we need people who are charming and can deal with the media and can attract players...Speak to the softer side of Dolan that people aren't aware of...Mills and Houston isn't getting the job done...They should be playing a more prominent roles in the organization as the face of management...Keep Dolan out of the spot light...It starts at the top and down thru the organization...
They can't trade Melo..Melo should be part of this organization going forward...The way he has handled the press in all the turmoil has been nothing short of remarkable/commendable...It's time we get some stability in the organization with people that players want to be around...Melo is well respected around the league...Retire Melo as a Knick..Something we didn't do for Ewing..I know, Ewing wanted to leave..Hire Mark Jackson...Sort out the roles later...
The people and the pieces can be sorted out later, but a big part of the problem is that the Knicks organization doesn't take care of it's own...It's time we put a new face on how things are done here..Dolan is screaming for help...Phil isn't it..Phil was brought here to lay on the charm and basketball knowledge but has fallen short...Doesn't make him a bad guy...This is a young man's game, even in the front office...
Let start down a different road...
A big problem has always been lack of continuity. New team, new coach, new front office almost every year. We may not have the right front office in place right now, but i think Mills and Allan Houston are probably the long-term leaders. Whether they are right and wrong for the team, at least they will bring some consistency. As for the team on the floor, we have a nice opportunity now to build with a young crew of KP, Willy, and this year's draft pick. Those 3 pieces should be a constant for the next 10+ years. That will go a long ways. And as for Melo, there is nothing wrong with him staying. He has to be appreciated for his loyalty to the Knicks and if he can become a veteran presence that shoulders the pressure while the young group develops, that is fine. He might not compete for a title, but maybe he gets satisfaction in being a part of a rebuilding team that can grow together.
Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
The president should never be dictating to the coach what system to run. It's funny how phil took this job only if dolan was hands off, yet he has to get a daily report form Jeff, he has to primarily run the phil system, and we can never capitalize on players strength because we are insisting on playing them away from their strengths.
So as you have all witness, it doesn't matter if you draft 20 good players, sign 20 solid role players, and have 2 stars. Its like signing Shaq, and having him play on the perimeter.
Is this a post from 2017 or 2007?
Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding
EnySpree wrote:Is this a post from 2017 or 2007? Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding
Yeah, it really comes down to the draft. I doubt we land top 5, but if we add to a core of KP and Willy with Fox, Monk, or Ntikilina, we are looking very good moving forward.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
The first step is always the same - acceptance of failure.
Dolan and Mills have to step out and clearly articulate to the world and organization the following:
1. Knicks as bbal franchise failed.
2. We recognized it and are in position to start building the club from ground up.
3. We have some promising development peaces to start with (KP, Hernangomez, etc.) and we are commuted to them.
4. We have some veteran players whom we invited to participate with the awareness that team will not be any good until their contract expired. If they want to participate we are welcome but their responsibilities will be to participate in rebuild.
5. We are sticking to system and development coach
6. We are planning to rebuild the relationship with fan base and media on the premise of trust and mutual understanding of our goals and challenges...
One can keep dreaming... 
I can't repeat this enough
Don't trade draft picks
Develop young players
Sign or trade for vets that will play within a specified role
We will be fine in 2-3 years if we keep our young players, draft well and don't try to do what we have done the last 2 decades which is trade for a big name
IMO THE BEST part of Phil's tenure has been his youth moves! Despite the failures to put some vets around Melo and not being able to convince Melo to be a more willing passer, Phil has this team in a good spot to rebuild.
The Media and some fans want another WALK THE PLANK MSG moment, but IMO that would be a mistake to repeat the same process that hasn't worked in the past. Let Phil and his team finish out his contract and try to build a new core thru the draft.
I'm done anything with the coaching its on the players. This team has to get younger and fast and more defensive minded. Young players that buy in.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people who know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
EnySpree wrote:Is this a post from 2017 or 2007? Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding
Honestly, you have no idea if Phil is rebuilding or not..I suggest to you that Phil has no idea if he is rebuilding or not..He just gave 32 yr old Noah 72 mil over 4 years and signed Lee to 4 years too..He is giving Rose a look over...You and I have no clue what's happening and Phil isn't saying...Bruh...
arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
The first step is always the same - acceptance of failure.
Dolan and Mills have to step out and clearly articulate to the world and organization the following:
1. Knicks as bbal franchise failed.
2. We recognized it and are in position to start building the club from ground up.
3. We have some promising development peaces to start with (KP, Hernangomez, etc.) and we are commuted to them.
4. We have some veteran players whom we invited to participate with the awareness that team will not be any good until their contract expired. If they want to participate we are welcome but their responsibilities will be to participate in rebuild.
5. We are sticking to system and development coach
6. We are planning to rebuild the relationship with fan base and media on the premise of trust and mutual understanding of our goals and challenges...
One can keep dreaming...
Agree, this is exactly what we need to see, however unlikely.
holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:Is this a post from 2017 or 2007? Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding
Honestly, you have no idea if Phil is rebuilding or not..I suggest to you that Phil has no idea if he is rebuilding or not..He just gave 32 yr old Noah 72 mil over 4 years and signed Lee to 4 years too..He is giving Rose a look over...You and I have no clue what's happening and Phil isn't saying...Bruh...
ASSETS. When you sign guys part of it is to have tradeable assets. Noah isn't going anywhere but Lee can most certainly help a team. I think the calculation now is the only logical course is to move forward with the rebuild. Phil kept that as an option the entire time and now the timing is PERFECT!!!
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:Is this a post from 2017 or 2007? Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding
Honestly, you have no idea if Phil is rebuilding or not..I suggest to you that Phil has no idea if he is rebuilding or not..He just gave 32 yr old Noah 72 mil over 4 years and signed Lee to 4 years too..He is giving Rose a look over...You and I have no clue what's happening and Phil isn't saying...Bruh...
ASSETS. When you sign guys part of it is to have tradeable assets. Noah isn't going anywhere but Lee can most certainly help a team. I think the calculation now is the only logical course is to move forward with the rebuild. Phil kept that as an option the entire time and now the timing is PERFECT!!!
That's you and others plan, Phil hasn't stated his plan..You are making it up...Phil's actions are completely different than your plan..
holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.
What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.
Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.
When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.
It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.
Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.
When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.
It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.
The spin has to stop...Please be honest...Ray Felton was running the offense not Kidd...What was our record when Ray got hurt mid-season??..Woodson's defense was giving up 95 points per game..Phil want to run the triangle..The coach and players don't want to run the triangle...Melo, Melo, Melo...The Fish rots at the head...
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.
Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.
When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.
It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.
GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!
holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.
Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.
When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.
It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.
The spin has to stop...Please be honest...Ray Felton was running the offense not Kidd...What was our record when Ray got hurt mid-season??..Woodson's defense was giving up 95 points per game..Phil want to run the triangle..The coach and players don't want to run the triangle...Melo, Melo, Melo...The Fish rots at the head...
If you cant see the head of this team is Melo your delusional. Everything that happens on the floor starts and ends with him. If you want to blame Phil for him being here that is fair as well. 100% fair. Hopefully he's trying to fix that. I suspect it wont be until the offseason.
Anthony wanted to find Kidd, who had scored half as many points but who Anthony knew had had just as big an effect on the game. Anthony went over to Kidd to hug him and say “thank you.”That signified just how much Anthony, the Knicks’ best player, values having Kidd as a teammate.
“I think it’s huge,” Kidd said of what it meant to receive the hug. “I think he trusts me coming down the stretch.”
Anthony put his faith in Kidd when the Knicks trailed the Nuggets early in the fourth quarter. During a timeout, Coach Mike Woodson wanted Anthony to be the focal point of the team’s offense. Anthony had a different idea.
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“He told me, ‘Let’s play through you,’ ” Kidd said. “Coach wanted to play through Carmelo, but Carmelo was like, ‘No, I want to play through Jason.’ I think that’s the greatest compliment a teammate can get.”
Billups said Melo needs strong leadership.
Tyson said Melo needs strong leadership.
You just keep ignoring the facts because they dont suit your agenda. Jeff doesnt run the triangle much and Phil was fine with that. Has said so openly. They thought Melo would roll with their plan. Its just not in the cards. Its gonna be a messy breakup but needs to happen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/sports/basketball/carmelo-anthony-likes-knicks-offense-to-go-through-jason-kidd.html
nixluva wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...
Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.
Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...
I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.
Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.
When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.
It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.
GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!
As long as you guys keep blaming melo for the Knicks failures like you blamed Amare. Hey young failing team will bring changes every 3 months...
I would like you guys to give me an exple of a team that won a ring building thought draft..other the GSW..who got absolutely lucky with curry and klay.
Like Portland and OKC saw there high picks leave them high and dry because they go tired of losing.
How are going to build something with a 74 yr old president who wish he was the coach. In a yr or 2 when Phil us gone, some else will come in and change everything..
