Knicks · Trade idea with Cleveland & Minnesota (page 2)
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Melo to Cleveland
Shump & Tristan to Minnesota
Lavine, Rubio and Peković to the KnicksKnicks could take a pick sprinkled here but that's being greedy. We get Rubio and Lavine (on a rookie scale) aka our new starting back court for Melo. Sounds good to me. We do take back a horrible contact but we could buy him out or release him. We could then just let Rose walk to compensate the cap. KP, Willy, Lavine, Rubio, a high draft pick... sounds like a nice rebuild happening here.
Minnesota does it cuz they want to get rid of Rubio and they want to improve the defense. It's rumored Thibbs loves Shumpert. Tristan is a Thibbs kinda guy too. They can put out Tristan, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn and Shump... that's a potential playoff team next year.
Cleveland gets Melo to help compensate for Love... when he comes back they have 4 elite level players on the roster. Melo, Lebron, Love, Kyrie... sprinkle in the rest of their roster and they just reloaded.
#boom
No other team but the Knicks would do this. The Wolves are fairly set insofar as big men are concerned, so I don't understand the interest in Thompsom. And then Shumpert (and JR) is just straight ass but is benefiting emmensely from the LeBron effect as did some other notable bums like Damon Jones, Booby Gibson, etc. Why would the T'Wolves want any of that, especially if they have to give up a talent like LaVine?
Cuz they get rid of 2 players they don't need and get 2 players they do need. Lavine is still growing. He's erratic and driving Thibbs crazy. They said they need too tightend the defense and this does it for them. If Dunn takes the next step and the draft well, that would offset the Lavine potential... this trade helps accelerate winning for them
Ginobili drove Pop crazy when he first started coaching him too. It doesn't mean they would've traded him for the modern day equivalent of Shannon Anderson. And I've heard multiple reporters suggest that Andrew Wiggins is the bigger problem with that team, not Lavine. I'm not sure I agree with that but Wiggins definitely seems to only be concerned about scoring the ball and could likely fetch a better deal.
I also doubt they look to compound the issue by going with a two big format, if defense is your concern. Most teams are rolling out swingmen at the 4 spot, so I don't see how it'd be a good idea to play a big against that if your intent is to be good defensively.
You can't compare Pop and Gino to Thibbs and Lavine. They been winning games for the last 15 years. I don't get the Shandon Anderson reference. Is that meant for Shump? Lavine is averaging 18pts on a lottery team that has 2 other players averaging above 18 pts a game. What kind of value should Lavine get especially when you are trying to dump Rubio and Peković?
Defense isn't just about defending the 3point line. They have to protect the paint and rebound too. They get better in the back court defensively while improving the rebounding and interior defense. If you are worried about stretch 4s only than I hate you lol.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Melo to Cleveland
Shump & Tristan to Minnesota
Lavine, Rubio and Peković to the KnicksKnicks could take a pick sprinkled here but that's being greedy. We get Rubio and Lavine (on a rookie scale) aka our new starting back court for Melo. Sounds good to me. We do take back a horrible contact but we could buy him out or release him. We could then just let Rose walk to compensate the cap. KP, Willy, Lavine, Rubio, a high draft pick... sounds like a nice rebuild happening here.
Minnesota does it cuz they want to get rid of Rubio and they want to improve the defense. It's rumored Thibbs loves Shumpert. Tristan is a Thibbs kinda guy too. They can put out Tristan, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn and Shump... that's a potential playoff team next year.
Cleveland gets Melo to help compensate for Love... when he comes back they have 4 elite level players on the roster. Melo, Lebron, Love, Kyrie... sprinkle in the rest of their roster and they just reloaded.
#boom
No other team but the Knicks would do this. The Wolves are fairly set insofar as big men are concerned, so I don't understand the interest in Thompsom. And then Shumpert (and JR) is just straight ass but is benefiting emmensely from the LeBron effect as did some other notable bums like Damon Jones, Booby Gibson, etc. Why would the T'Wolves want any of that, especially if they have to give up a talent like LaVine?
Cuz they get rid of 2 players they don't need and get 2 players they do need. Lavine is still growing. He's erratic and driving Thibbs crazy. They said they need too tightend the defense and this does it for them. If Dunn takes the next step and the draft well, that would offset the Lavine potential... this trade helps accelerate winning for them
Ginobili drove Pop crazy when he first started coaching him too. It doesn't mean they would've traded him for the modern day equivalent of Shannon Anderson. And I've heard multiple reporters suggest that Andrew Wiggins is the bigger problem with that team, not Lavine. I'm not sure I agree with that but Wiggins definitely seems to only be concerned about scoring the ball and could likely fetch a better deal.
I also doubt they look to compound the issue by going with a two big format, if defense is your concern. Most teams are rolling out swingmen at the 4 spot, so I don't see how it'd be a good idea to play a big against that if your intent is to be good defensively.
You can't compare Pop and Gino to Thibbs and Lavine. They been winning games for the last 15 years. I don't get the Shandon Anderson reference. Is that meant for Shump? Lavine is averaging 18pts on a lottery team that has 2 other players averaging above 18 pts a game. What kind of value should Lavine get especially when you are trying to dump Rubio and Peković?
Defense isn't just about defending the 3point line. They have to protect the paint and rebound too. They get better in the back court defensively while improving the rebounding and interior defense. If you are worried about stretch 4s only than I hate you lol.
I don't get your rationale and how it negates my comparison. Both teams had two talented but unproven/unstable swingmen that needed time to blossom. Trading them before that point in time made little sense for the Spurs or Wolves, especially if a stiff like Iman Shumpert aka Shannon Anderson was all you'd be getting.
And you're the only person that echos the sentiment that the Wolves NEED to dump Pekovic. He'll be cleared off the teams payroll in a couple of weeks, so I don't think the Wolves are compelled to do anything with him. I also feel similarly about Rubio. What is the sense of urgency for moving him? Kris Dunn isn't ready to assume big minutes and it is not like Rubio is a cancer in the locker-room. That team is not making the playoffs, so I don't understand why a Rubio deal couldn't occur during the offseaaon; if at all.
I just don't understand your need to tinker with a roster that is in excellent condition and an envy of the league moving forward.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Who said they can't start winning organically before they hit their primes? You're making all these assumptions to fit an argument you want me to make that I'm not.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Melo to Cleveland
Shump & Tristan to Minnesota
Lavine, Rubio and Peković to the KnicksKnicks could take a pick sprinkled here but that's being greedy. We get Rubio and Lavine (on a rookie scale) aka our new starting back court for Melo. Sounds good to me. We do take back a horrible contact but we could buy him out or release him. We could then just let Rose walk to compensate the cap. KP, Willy, Lavine, Rubio, a high draft pick... sounds like a nice rebuild happening here.
Minnesota does it cuz they want to get rid of Rubio and they want to improve the defense. It's rumored Thibbs loves Shumpert. Tristan is a Thibbs kinda guy too. They can put out Tristan, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn and Shump... that's a potential playoff team next year.
Cleveland gets Melo to help compensate for Love... when he comes back they have 4 elite level players on the roster. Melo, Lebron, Love, Kyrie... sprinkle in the rest of their roster and they just reloaded.
#boom
No other team but the Knicks would do this. The Wolves are fairly set insofar as big men are concerned, so I don't understand the interest in Thompsom. And then Shumpert (and JR) is just straight ass but is benefiting emmensely from the LeBron effect as did some other notable bums like Damon Jones, Booby Gibson, etc. Why would the T'Wolves want any of that, especially if they have to give up a talent like LaVine?
Cuz they get rid of 2 players they don't need and get 2 players they do need. Lavine is still growing. He's erratic and driving Thibbs crazy. They said they need too tightend the defense and this does it for them. If Dunn takes the next step and the draft well, that would offset the Lavine potential... this trade helps accelerate winning for them
Ginobili drove Pop crazy when he first started coaching him too. It doesn't mean they would've traded him for the modern day equivalent of Shannon Anderson. And I've heard multiple reporters suggest that Andrew Wiggins is the bigger problem with that team, not Lavine. I'm not sure I agree with that but Wiggins definitely seems to only be concerned about scoring the ball and could likely fetch a better deal.
I also doubt they look to compound the issue by going with a two big format, if defense is your concern. Most teams are rolling out swingmen at the 4 spot, so I don't see how it'd be a good idea to play a big against that if your intent is to be good defensively.
You can't compare Pop and Gino to Thibbs and Lavine. They been winning games for the last 15 years. I don't get the Shandon Anderson reference. Is that meant for Shump? Lavine is averaging 18pts on a lottery team that has 2 other players averaging above 18 pts a game. What kind of value should Lavine get especially when you are trying to dump Rubio and Peković?
Defense isn't just about defending the 3point line. They have to protect the paint and rebound too. They get better in the back court defensively while improving the rebounding and interior defense. If you are worried about stretch 4s only than I hate you lol.
I don't get your rationale and how it negates my comparison. Both teams had two talented but unproven/unstable swingmen that needed time to blossom. Trading them before that point in time made little sense for the Spurs or Wolves, especially if a stiff like Iman Shumpert aka Shannon Anderson was all you'd be getting.
And you're the only person that echos the sentiment that the Wolves NEED to dump Pekovic. He'll be cleared off the teams payroll in a couple of weeks, so I don't think the Wolves are compelled to do anything with him. I also feel similarly about Rubio. What is the sense of urgency for moving him? Kris Dunn isn't ready to assume big minutes and it is not like Rubio is a cancer in the locker-room. That team is not making the playoffs, so I don't understand why a Rubio deal couldn't occur during the offseaaon; if at all.
I just don't understand your need to tinker with a roster that is in excellent condition and an envy of the league moving forward.
How do you envy a team that keeps getting lottery talent only to go back to the lottery? If that's envious then I should be in heaven being a Knicks fan. Keep losing because in 5 years we can just keep losing. It will be the envy of all the land
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Who said they can't start winning organically before they hit their primes? You're making all these assumptions to fit an argument you want me to make that I'm not.
But isn't that what you are doing?
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Melo to Cleveland
Shump & Tristan to Minnesota
Lavine, Rubio and Peković to the KnicksKnicks could take a pick sprinkled here but that's being greedy. We get Rubio and Lavine (on a rookie scale) aka our new starting back court for Melo. Sounds good to me. We do take back a horrible contact but we could buy him out or release him. We could then just let Rose walk to compensate the cap. KP, Willy, Lavine, Rubio, a high draft pick... sounds like a nice rebuild happening here.
Minnesota does it cuz they want to get rid of Rubio and they want to improve the defense. It's rumored Thibbs loves Shumpert. Tristan is a Thibbs kinda guy too. They can put out Tristan, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn and Shump... that's a potential playoff team next year.
Cleveland gets Melo to help compensate for Love... when he comes back they have 4 elite level players on the roster. Melo, Lebron, Love, Kyrie... sprinkle in the rest of their roster and they just reloaded.
#boom
No other team but the Knicks would do this. The Wolves are fairly set insofar as big men are concerned, so I don't understand the interest in Thompsom. And then Shumpert (and JR) is just straight ass but is benefiting emmensely from the LeBron effect as did some other notable bums like Damon Jones, Booby Gibson, etc. Why would the T'Wolves want any of that, especially if they have to give up a talent like LaVine?
Cuz they get rid of 2 players they don't need and get 2 players they do need. Lavine is still growing. He's erratic and driving Thibbs crazy. They said they need too tightend the defense and this does it for them. If Dunn takes the next step and the draft well, that would offset the Lavine potential... this trade helps accelerate winning for them
Ginobili drove Pop crazy when he first started coaching him too. It doesn't mean they would've traded him for the modern day equivalent of Shannon Anderson. And I've heard multiple reporters suggest that Andrew Wiggins is the bigger problem with that team, not Lavine. I'm not sure I agree with that but Wiggins definitely seems to only be concerned about scoring the ball and could likely fetch a better deal.
I also doubt they look to compound the issue by going with a two big format, if defense is your concern. Most teams are rolling out swingmen at the 4 spot, so I don't see how it'd be a good idea to play a big against that if your intent is to be good defensively.
You can't compare Pop and Gino to Thibbs and Lavine. They been winning games for the last 15 years. I don't get the Shandon Anderson reference. Is that meant for Shump? Lavine is averaging 18pts on a lottery team that has 2 other players averaging above 18 pts a game. What kind of value should Lavine get especially when you are trying to dump Rubio and Peković?
Defense isn't just about defending the 3point line. They have to protect the paint and rebound too. They get better in the back court defensively while improving the rebounding and interior defense. If you are worried about stretch 4s only than I hate you lol.
I don't get your rationale and how it negates my comparison. Both teams had two talented but unproven/unstable swingmen that needed time to blossom. Trading them before that point in time made little sense for the Spurs or Wolves, especially if a stiff like Iman Shumpert aka Shannon Anderson was all you'd be getting.
And you're the only person that echos the sentiment that the Wolves NEED to dump Pekovic. He'll be cleared off the teams payroll in a couple of weeks, so I don't think the Wolves are compelled to do anything with him. I also feel similarly about Rubio. What is the sense of urgency for moving him? Kris Dunn isn't ready to assume big minutes and it is not like Rubio is a cancer in the locker-room. That team is not making the playoffs, so I don't understand why a Rubio deal couldn't occur during the offseaaon; if at all.
I just don't understand your need to tinker with a roster that is in excellent condition and an envy of the league moving forward.
How do you envy a team that keeps getting lottery talent only to go back to the lottery? If that's envious then I should be in heaven being a Knicks fan. Keep losing because in 5 years we can just keep losing. It will be the envy of all the land
Right, because no NBA owner, general manager, or coach would want a core of KAT, Wiggins, Lavine and Dunn before their prime and with a slew of cap space to improve the team around them. Yup, it's definitely something no rebuilding team aspires for.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Who said they can't start winning organically before they hit their primes? You're making all these assumptions to fit an argument you want me to make that I'm not.
But isn't that what you are doing?
Not at all.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Two young players to build around both of whom are older than Lavine and one of those players is Shumpert? Shumpert, as I've argued basically since we drafted him, is a role player on a good team not some allstar caliber player to build around. And I still don't understand how Thompson and KAT play together or who's going to play center for Cleveland?
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Who said they can't start winning organically before they hit their primes? You're making all these assumptions to fit an argument you want me to make that I'm not.
But isn't that what you are doing?
Not at all.
You guys are arguing over a trade that will never even happen...lol. I love this board.
VCoug wrote:
Two young players to build around both of whom are older than Lavine and one of those players is Shumpert? Shumpert, as I've argued basically since we drafted him, is a role player on a good team not some allstar caliber player to build around. And I still don't understand how Thompson and KAT play together or who's going to play center for Cleveland?
Love and Tristan play together right? Why can't Kat and Tristan?... every big man needs help. You can't expect KAT to do everything by himself. Tristan doesn't even need the ball or a play called for him.
Shumpert is a role player. That's what they need. He's a 3 and D guy. Dunn should pick up his production as time goes on. I think they have better balance with Kat, Tristan, Wiggins, Shump and Dunn.
And I I already explained the center situation for Cleveland. They could sign a free agent or make a small trade for sone one. I thought big men weren't important? With Melo, Lebron, Kyrie and a Healthy Love they would be more than fine. They have a talented bench.
newyorker4ever wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:I don't see Cleveland or Minny agreeing to this. Cleveland can't afford to give up Tristan Thompson without getting a legit center back. And I don't know why Minnesota is trading Lavine for Thompson when they already have KAT. Is it just to get rid of Pekovic?Kat is alone inside. Tristan gets him an enforcer to help him inside. Lavine can't defend yet. Shump still getting paid to play defense. I think it balances out the team. As it stand Minnesota needs experienced players mixed into their youth. Especially now with cousins and Davis together... Kat will need that help.
Gourgui Dieng is a pretty good player, albeit a poor fit next to KAT. Even so, I think it's unfair to say KAT is "alone" in the paint. Besides, the league is moving away from a two big format ao why would the Wolves foolishly value continuing the tradition?
Their record is wise than the Knicks... KAT is alone inside. And after the pelicans made the trade for cousins, you still say the league is moving away from two bigs front court? Btw... Tristan isn't close to as talented as KAT. Tristan is a double doubles energy guy. KAT needs that next to him. With Dieng off the bench, now you are talking about a playoff caliber front court with Wiggins. Dunn, Shumpert their current bench and their draft pick will improve the back court. That's a good situation for them
You're using one of the worst run teams in the league and a current lottery team as evidence that two-big formats are still relevant? In spite of the talent upgrade, people are still skeptical of the Pelicans even making playoffs.
As for the Wolves, they will still be "playoff caliber" next year as presently constructed. People are forgetting that their core is only 21 years old and by no means a finished product. They are still maturing and need time to actually grow. Trading for two overrated players doesn't help that process.
But you want to say they don't need help inside and they just need time to grow even... that's not saying anything actually. They are a lottery team. Winning doesn't happen by accident. Sooner or later they have to evaluate and start to build around KAT. He needs help inside and people to pass to.
So your evaluation point for that team is before you can actually determine what will be the strengths and weaknesses of your players individually? Because that's what you'd be doing since none of these guys are close to their prime. And what are they in a rush to win for? To get demolished by the Warriors, Spurs and Clippers in the first round?
There's no rush... but saying they have to wait till they are in their primes to evaluate them is ridiculous... they're 21 now right? So they gotta wait 5 more years to figure out if they can start to win with each other? That's ridiculous...
My trade idea gets them 2 young players they can build with for basically Lavine.... I can argue if it's a bad fit but I can't argue with a guy that just wants to wait 5 years doing nothing just to see if they can get their 3 point shots ready for the stretch 4 extravaganza. Because the warriors, clippers and Spurs are guaranteed to win with the sane players for the next 5 years. I mean it's ridiculous
Who said they can't start winning organically before they hit their primes? You're making all these assumptions to fit an argument you want me to make that I'm not.
But isn't that what you are doing?
Not at all.
You guys are arguing over a trade that will never even happen...lol. I love this board.
Were arguing over point guards that don't pass and only shot threes that play power forward abs how they should be allowed to grow for 40 years like a California redwood so they can figure out of they can win together. The envy of all doo doo
EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:
Two young players to build around both of whom are older than Lavine and one of those players is Shumpert? Shumpert, as I've argued basically since we drafted him, is a role player on a good team not some allstar caliber player to build around. And I still don't understand how Thompson and KAT play together or who's going to play center for Cleveland?Love and Tristan play together right? Why can't Kat and Tristan?... every big man needs help. You can't expect KAT to do everything by himself. Tristan doesn't even need the ball or a play called for him.
Shumpert is a role player. That's what they need. He's a 3 and D guy. Dunn should pick up his production as time goes on. I think they have better balance with Kat, Tristan, Wiggins, Shump and Dunn.
And I I already explained the center situation for Cleveland. They could sign a free agent or make a small trade for sone one. I thought big men weren't important? With Melo, Lebron, Kyrie and a Healthy Love they would be more than fine. They have a talented bench.
Kevin Love is a stretch 4 that shoots 38% from 3; KAT isn't.
Minnesota is 22-35 and on pace for 31 wins. They're not in the market for role players and besides, Lavine looks like he's at least as good as Shumpert and is 5 years younger.
What FA center or one they could trade for is near the same value that Thompson is?
VCoug wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:
Two young players to build around both of whom are older than Lavine and one of those players is Shumpert? Shumpert, as I've argued basically since we drafted him, is a role player on a good team not some allstar caliber player to build around. And I still don't understand how Thompson and KAT play together or who's going to play center for Cleveland?Love and Tristan play together right? Why can't Kat and Tristan?... every big man needs help. You can't expect KAT to do everything by himself. Tristan doesn't even need the ball or a play called for him.
Shumpert is a role player. That's what they need. He's a 3 and D guy. Dunn should pick up his production as time goes on. I think they have better balance with Kat, Tristan, Wiggins, Shump and Dunn.
And I I already explained the center situation for Cleveland. They could sign a free agent or make a small trade for sone one. I thought big men weren't important? With Melo, Lebron, Kyrie and a Healthy Love they would be more than fine. They have a talented bench.
Kevin Love is a stretch 4 that shoots 38% from 3; KAT isn't.
Minnesota is 22-35 and on pace for 31 wins. They're not in the market for role players and besides, Lavine looks like he's at least as good as Shumpert and is 5 years younger.
What FA center or one they could trade for is near the same value that Thompson is?
Cleveland is about to get Bogut.... 😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐
Class may find a breakthrough SG or PG. I'm not dissing Zack L but In a era of elite guards, where the second tier of all star guards are awesome and Beal doesn't even make the all star team, is Lavine the Answer?
EnySpree wrote:They are supposed to sign Deron Williams on Monday as well.VCoug wrote:EnySpree wrote:VCoug wrote:
Two young players to build around both of whom are older than Lavine and one of those players is Shumpert? Shumpert, as I've argued basically since we drafted him, is a role player on a good team not some allstar caliber player to build around. And I still don't understand how Thompson and KAT play together or who's going to play center for Cleveland?Love and Tristan play together right? Why can't Kat and Tristan?... every big man needs help. You can't expect KAT to do everything by himself. Tristan doesn't even need the ball or a play called for him.
Shumpert is a role player. That's what they need. He's a 3 and D guy. Dunn should pick up his production as time goes on. I think they have better balance with Kat, Tristan, Wiggins, Shump and Dunn.
And I I already explained the center situation for Cleveland. They could sign a free agent or make a small trade for sone one. I thought big men weren't important? With Melo, Lebron, Kyrie and a Healthy Love they would be more than fine. They have a talented bench.
Kevin Love is a stretch 4 that shoots 38% from 3; KAT isn't.
Minnesota is 22-35 and on pace for 31 wins. They're not in the market for role players and besides, Lavine looks like he's at least as good as Shumpert and is 5 years younger.
What FA center or one they could trade for is near the same value that Thompson is?
Cleveland is about to get Bogut.... 😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐
EnySpree wrote:TPercy wrote:Eny, you really think Minny would give us Lavine? that constitutes as trade robbery in my opinion. I really doubt that would happen.How is it trade robbery if they get Tristan and Shump back? Their team becomes much improved defensively. Next year they could be a playoff team under Thibbs
Tristan Thompson is an energy guy who got a massive deal because his agent is Rich Paul, LBJs agent and "best friend"
He's a bad contract. Can't defend the rim, can't space the floor, he is the kind of guy who doesn't help you win and doesn't help you lose.
Remember when the Yanks would run out Pat Kelly to play 2B for them?
Tristan Thompson is the Pat Kelly of the NBA.
TripleThreat wrote:EnySpree wrote:TPercy wrote:Eny, you really think Minny would give us Lavine? that constitutes as trade robbery in my opinion. I really doubt that would happen.How is it trade robbery if they get Tristan and Shump back? Their team becomes much improved defensively. Next year they could be a playoff team under Thibbs
Tristan Thompson is an energy guy who got a massive deal because his agent is Rich Paul, LBJs agent and "best friend"He's a bad contract. Can't defend the rim, can't space the floor, he is the kind of guy who doesn't help you win and doesn't help you lose.
Remember when the Yanks would run out Pat Kelly to play 2B for them?
Tristan Thompson is the Pat Kelly of the NBA.
Why cuz he doesn't shoot threes?
We could have made the trade I was taking about and Cleveland could have had Melo, Deron and Bogut... anyway but we wanna pull Pat Kelly out his grave. Freaking grave robber smh