Knicks · Lee to Clippers being discussed (page 3)

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Let's say Phil gets his way and was able to trade Melo and Rose...No all star will come here for less than 35/40 mil per...

You're stuck on the mindset that the only way to get an all-star is to sign him in free agency when he already is playing at all-star level. That's the worst way because you're buying high. You're much better off with draft picks, trades, and signing players before they become all-stars.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

OK, but we're comparing him to Courtney Lee, not to some awesome player, in this discussion. I'd rather have Novak (or Kuz - that's how this came up) making $3 mil a year than Lee making $12 mil a year.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

OK, but we're comparing him to Courtney Lee, not to some awesome player, in this discussion. I'd rather have Novak (or Kuz - that's how this came up) making $3 mil a year than Lee making $12 mil a year.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

OK, but we're comparing him to Courtney Lee, not to some awesome player, in this discussion. I'd rather have Novak (or Kuz - that's how this came up) making $3 mil a year than Lee making $12 mil a year.

I'd rather have Lee. Novak's salary would be 8 or 9 million in today's CBA. I'd rather have a 2 that plays SG than a 4 that plays SG

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

OK, but we're comparing him to Courtney Lee, not to some awesome player, in this discussion. I'd rather have Novak (or Kuz - that's how this came up) making $3 mil a year than Lee making $12 mil a year.

Different market in 2016 versus 2012.

Both are 2016 salaries (Lee's and Kuz's)

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it.

Like who??..This is the new brave world JR is making 14/15?..Shump 10??..Good role players are making 17 per now...See Mozgov..THJr will prob get bet 14 and 17...Two kids, bench players in Portland, got 17..

Obviously you have to explore. Minn has been looking to get rid of Rubio for a long time. I added a little more to the other message after you replied but you're acting like someone held a gun to our head requiring us to give out an 8 figure contract. I'm not giving anyone who isn't very good an 8 figure salary. Not when guys like Kuz make $3 mil. I don't care if some moron GM gives a bench player $20 mil. That's their problem.

I'll read the above of what you wrote...Kuz is Novak 2.0 with a little more speed..He is 28..These are just warm bodies and not who you want to win with...

I'd take 2011-12 Novak over Lee anyway

You goal can't be winning games..Novak was a turnstile..

Novak was an outstanding role player. He had the best plus minus on the team for a reason after all.

Yeah, but when we needed him in big games I remember him usually being shut down. Just like Linsanity, he was a fun novelty act for a while.

He was a big slow guy that could hit threes but want quick enough for the perimeter or strong enough for mid range

OK, but we're comparing him to Courtney Lee, not to some awesome player, in this discussion. I'd rather have Novak (or Kuz - that's how this came up) making $3 mil a year than Lee making $12 mil a year.

Lee is no where near as limited as Novak was.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

We really need to stop giving big contracts to players on the wrong side of 30

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

The average will be $10mil, he's making $12mil, therefore it's an average salary- $2 mil difference under a $100mil salary cap- oooh!

Rookie wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

We really need to stop giving big contracts to players on the wrong side of 30

It's not a big salary $10mil will be the average player salary (remember the MLE is also shooting up), he'll be on $12mil- he shoots well and can play d (not on this team though), he's a good character guy- that gets you an average salary.

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

The average will be $10mil, he's making $12mil, therefore it's an average salary- $2 mil difference under a $100mil salary cap- oooh!

So that's like 10 to 15 mil over the league average for 4 years on a guy who should be about 10 mil below league average for 4 years. You can't just throw around $25 mil like it doesn't matter. If you're that careless, you'll fill up the whole salary cap and still have a lot of needs to address.

smackeddog wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

We really need to stop giving big contracts to players on the wrong side of 30

It's not a big salary $10mil will be the average player salary (remember the MLE is also shooting up), he'll be on $12mil- he shoots well and can play d (not on this team though), he's a good character guy- that gets you an average salary.

and when he's 35?

Rookie wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think Lee is a keeper unless someone really offers a wow deal. You want to keep some veteran players and have continuity. Lee is a good versatile player. Unless he wants out...

I'm all for nice veteran role players but not if if it means overpaying them. Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does. It's nothing against Lee but I don't think he's a bargain on an 8 figure per year salary.

plenty? Any all star is going to be paid 2x what Lee makes in this market. Your not making sense

That's crazy. There are guys even on rookie contracts who are all-stars. I'm not spending 8 figures on a guy who's a nice role player. You shouldn't spend more than half that on a role player.
Sure, you'll pay a lot if you're talking about signing someone in free agency who is already an all-star. I don't expect us to pull that off. (And if we keep blowing 8 figure salaries on guys like Lee and Noah, it's going to be even harder to get all-stars.)

like who? Name some guys. Not seeing it.

Who? KOQ, Kuz, Jennings are all OK role players half what Lee does.

huh? Those guys are all stars? You said "Plenty of all-stars are making what Lee does" and I asked who. You answered with KOQ, Kuz and Jennings. Who are these all stars making what Lee makes?

I asked you which part of my reply you were asking about since your statement wasn't clear. I replied as if you were referring to the part where I said "you shouldn't spend more than half of that on a role player." So I was demonstrating you can get good role players for much less than Lee.

Anyway, two all-stars are making less than Lee:
Giannis
Isaiah Thomas

Then you have all-stars making the same or only a few mil more than Lee like
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Kemba Walker
Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
DeMarcus Cousins
Gordon Hayward

That's already a third of the all-stars.

All of these players except one was drafted by their current teams...Next contract, this summer, Curry and Cousins will be making 40 mil per year...Wall will get 40 mil per year when it's time..Draymond, Haywood and Klay in the mid 30s...

exactly... all this list says is no matter what, you keep your picks (or try to get more).

None of that means you pay Lee all-star dollars. There are fine role players making a quarter what he does. I don't know why you're mentioning free agency pools anyway. Free agency is just one of many ways to get players.
And, anyway, have we reached the point in the new cba yet when Melo's contract is a bargain? Wake me up when we do.

Chris Paul, Curry and Boogie will be making 40 mil per this summer..Harrison Barnes is making 24? Per..12 mil per signed from last year isn't all star dollars..You are comparing apples and oranges..Contracts from different CBA era deals..Recent contracts were signed at higher rates anticipating the new CBA..

No, I mentioned good role players signed in this CBA making far less than Lee.
In 2017, $12 mil per is at least close to all-star dollars, as this year is a mixture of players from current and past CBAs. We can't keep signing guys just out of the hope that in the back end of their contracts it will pay off. We should have learned that by now! If we can't get top FAs on reasonable contracts (and they have no reason to come here right now), then we need to build a better team first.
Imagine if we had just taken $120 mil in bad contracts off of teams hands instead of signing Noah and Lee. We probably could have gotten a lot of draft picks out of it. You are right that in the 2016 off-season, you couldn't sign a *current* all-star for $12 mil. You need to get players before they become all-stars. (Like how I kept saying we should trade for Harden before Houston did.) And you need to acquire draft picks so you can get guys on bargain contracts.

Under the new CBA, the average player salary is estimated to start at $8.5mil, then go up to $10 mil, so Lee will have an average salary and is an average player- his contract is fine.

Salaries will increase dramatically. There will be a 45% increase in minimum salaries across the board for year one of the deal, with the average salary expected at $8.5 million in 2017-18 and projected at $10 million by 2020–21.

You realize he's making $12 mil a year? Statistically, he's a slightly below average NBA player (but almost average). And you confirmed what I suspected. he'll be overpaid throughout every year of his contract.

We really need to stop giving big contracts to players on the wrong side of 30

It's not a big salary $10mil will be the average player salary (remember the MLE is also shooting up), he'll be on $12mil- he shoots well and can play d (not on this team though), he's a good character guy- that gets you an average salary.

and when he's 35?

They seem to be solid guys who will work hard and be positive -- while also capable of playing team ball.

I'm not sure either warrants a 1st round pick in exchange so unless you are swapping either/each out for a younger option -- you keep them around to provide some vet leadership.

Key is to get Melo/Rose out of town before next fall.