Knicks · Terrible terrible win last night (page 1)

As bad as it gets. We had complete control of the game at home up 20 with a team on the back to back. If we lose to the sixes we move to position 5 in the lottery( where we want to be) philly comes back with tremendous energy and takes lead late. On Jeff Hornaceck he should've ran the last play for Ronny Baker for a 3. It does absolute nothing at that point to win. In any respect we lost anyway The strategic play there is to go low % on that last play. Nope not the Knicks. Any for any of you thinking were gong to make the playoffs. ESPN mathematically has us below 1%. And barely beating the fixers at home after they played the night b4 should finalize that debate. Also looks like Rose does not want to be here so we should simply cut him. Have him give up a few mm and dump him. Talk about toxic

BRIGGS wrote:As bad as it gets. We had complete control of the game at home up 20 with a team on the back to back. If we lose to the sixes we move to position 5 in the lottery( where we want to be) philly comes back with tremendous energy and takes lead late. On Jeff Hornaceck he should've ran the last play for Ronny Baker for a 3. It does absolute nothing at that point to win. In any respect we lost anyway The strategic play there is to go low % on that last play. Nope not the Knicks. Any for any of you thinking were gong to make the playoffs. ESPN mathematically has us below 1%. And barely beating the fixers at home after they played the night b4 should finalize that debate. Also looks like Rose does not want to be here so we should simply cut him. Have him give up a few mm and dump him. Talk about toxic

Why rub a play just turn the ball over.

Agreed - Rose is toxic. Must be cut.

It was a bad win, but what can you do. They won't win many more. The Sixers barely had an NBA team on the floor last night and they were on the second night of a back to back.

crzymdups wrote:Agreed - Rose is toxic. Must be cut.

It was a bad win, but what can you do. They won't win many more. The Sixers barely had an NBA team on the floor last night and they were on the second night of a back to back.

Yeah that was an EXTREMELY weak win given the fact they squeaked by hanging on for dear life!!! The only good thing is the experience Willy got. Holiday and Kuz got to gain more confidence.

Everybody is on a short leash....So they all have something to play for. Nobody is going to throw a game on purpose. Dolan is the only one who can honestly control our tanking method. Melo said it himself, he doesn't understand the direction of this franchise. If he did, he wouldve over exaggerate an injury, so he could sit, which increases our chances. But Melo always has something to prove, Rose is looking for a huge contract. The role players are playing hard because this is their job, and this is how they feed their kids. Phil is trying to save face, so he can't simply throw away games, especially against Philly at home, when celebs are paying a house note for each seat. Dolan controls the tank strategy. And thats where the tanking ends. Dolan rather throw money at star players and managers, to keep celebs happy and excited.

What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.

blkexec wrote:Everybody is on a short leash....So they all have something to play for. Nobody is going to throw a game on purpose. Dolan is the only one who can honestly control our tanking method. Melo said it himself, he doesn't understand the direction of this franchise. If he did, he wouldve over exaggerate an injury, so he could sit, which increases our chances. But Melo always has something to prove, Rose is looking for a huge contract. The role players are playing hard because this is their job, and this is how they feed their kids. Phil is trying to save face, so he can't simply throw away games, especially against Philly at home, when celebs are paying a house note for each seat. Dolan controls the tank strategy. And thats where the tanking ends. Dolan rather throw money at star players and managers, to keep celebs happy and excited.

What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.

This team needs to tank. It need not be said but done. There is a few impact players in this coming draft and the Knicks need to get better involved in making sure they get that impact player. They pulled this idiotic stunt much to often to not learn from their mistakes. The same mistakes cannot be repeated over and over again.

Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

i wasnt suggesting they should play to lose on purpose. I guess im just a long suffering knick fan. Its obvious we need another young impact player alongside KP and Willy. Nobody will sign here so we need to draft high to get those players

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

Tell all the players how many minutes they play in a game will be determined based on their effort on defense the last game. N'Dour and Plumlee will play 30 minutes a game. No need to ask players to try to lose, the top two are losers to start with, just devise a strategy that works.

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

Tell all the players how many minutes they play in a game will be determined based on their effort on defense the last game. N'Dour and Plumlee will play 30 minutes a game. No need to ask players to try to lose, the top two are losers to start with, just devise a strategy that works.

Guys like Jennings, and Rose are on contract years. If you are going to do that you need to buy them out or you won't have a chance signing anybody. Agents and players aren't going near a team that handles its players like that. Also, fans are paying a lot of money to go to msg and see the 'stars'. I think if you switch things up and start playing the guys you have been sending to Westchester 30 mins a night and not playing the guys fans bought tickets to see the league would intervene.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

Tell all the players how many minutes they play in a game will be determined based on their effort on defense the last game. N'Dour and Plumlee will play 30 minutes a game. No need to ask players to try to lose, the top two are losers to start with, just devise a strategy that works.

Guys like Jennings, and Rose are on contract years. If you are going to do that you need to buy them out or you won't have a chance signing anybody. Agents and players aren't going near a team that handles its players like that. Also, fans are paying a lot of money to go to msg and see the 'stars'. I think if you switch things up and start playing the guys you have been sending to Westchester 30 mins a night and not playing the guys fans bought tickets to see the league would intervene.

No the players are fully capable of earning their playing time. If Melo and Rose want minutes they can start playing defense. The goal of a basketball team us to play cohesive basketball and win
We have already destroyed our chances this season. Real fans won't leave they'll want their team to get good instead of wheeling out a three ring circus every game. I live in Ohio, I see how many Brown's fans still go to each game. This narrative you are trying is designed to give a pass to the"stars" while they suck the life blood out of the team. I would definitely like to see that stop.

I hated the celebration around Melo like we're in 3rd place in the east holding down the home turf.....

Instead it just looked pathetic. A team that should be better than they are scrambling for a last second shot from a player that's stunting the development of the franchise as a whole.

I can't enjoy a team where we are giving a guy the ball to hold for 3-7 seconds every time he gets it, only to lose the majority of the time. It's just pathetic

Yawns

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Last night felt more like a loss. Im not saying they should throw away the game but i have a bad feeling we will end up in the 11-13 range come draft time and miss the impact players. I know there are some who dont believe in the draft but it really is the only way we will improve for the longterm

I think you are probably right about finishing 11-13. But I don't know how you get your players to try to not win. I don't really think that is done. You can put out a glorified d league team like the Sixers have and Phil did the year of the KP draft but guys are still playing to win. Maybe the hope was that the roster could be gutted of vets and turned into a team similar to the 17 win team but it didn't pan out. I think the best hope for the tank is playing Melo at the 3, KP at 4 and Noah at the center spot. But there is talent there and guys that will try to win. I think Rose just needs to go and should be bought out.

Tell all the players how many minutes they play in a game will be determined based on their effort on defense the last game. N'Dour and Plumlee will play 30 minutes a game. No need to ask players to try to lose, the top two are losers to start with, just devise a strategy that works.

Guys like Jennings, and Rose are on contract years. If you are going to do that you need to buy them out or you won't have a chance signing anybody. Agents and players aren't going near a team that handles its players like that. Also, fans are paying a lot of money to go to msg and see the 'stars'. I think if you switch things up and start playing the guys you have been sending to Westchester 30 mins a night and not playing the guys fans bought tickets to see the league would intervene.

No the players are fully capable of earning their playing time. If Melo and Rose want minutes they can start playing defense. The goal of a basketball team us to play cohesive basketball and win
We have already destroyed our chances this season. Real fans won't leave they'll want their team to get good instead of wheeling out a three ring circus every game. I live in Ohio, I see how many Brown's fans still go to each game. This narrative you are trying is designed to give a pass to the"stars" while they suck the life blood out of the team. I would definitely like to see that stop.

It is not a narrative, its reality. But I will keep watching to see if they try this out. Meloshouldgo, who do you think should leave?

Oh come on now, there's no way in hell they will do that. It's was a response to your comment that players won't play to lose. But Hornacek isn't going to do what I suggested that takes guts.

If this team has to get better both Melo and Rose need to be off the roster before next season and Noah too if possible. The Melo experiment is over, but he will probably do what he had always done, put his interests first and refuse to waive the NTC. If he does stay, they should stay the season with the plan of benching him.

When you think of how many times this team has blown decent sized leads late in the 4th quarter, you have to take step back and realize that Hornacek is a really bad coach. He never seems to have the right guys on the court in last 4 minutes. Holding out hope that Phil leaves this summer, which hopefully will also rid the Knicks of Hornacek and Rambis.

corvetteknick wrote:When you think of how many times this team has blown decent sized leads late in the 4th quarter, you have to take step back and realize that Hornacek is a really bad coach. He never seems to have the right guys on the court in last 4 minutes. Holding out hope that Phil leaves this summer, which hopefully will also rid the Knicks of Hornacek and Rambis.

That's what you take away from this season? I don't think Hornacek is the source of the problems and sure he may have issues with making the right moves but really when you have the team's best players in the 4th qtr they should not be surrendering leads. It's very hard for ANY coach to overcome that problem.

At some point it has to be on the players on the floor to give effort and execute. A coach has limited control of what happens on the court after he makes a play call or substitution. That's where your team's leaders and best players have to step up!!!

That's what you take away from this season? I don't think Hornacek is the source of the problems and sure he may have issues with making the right moves but really when you have the team's best players in the 4th qtr they should not be surrendering leads. It's very hard for ANY coach to overcome that problem.
At some point it has to be on the players on the floor to give effort and execute. A coach has limited control of what happens on the court after he makes a play call or substitution. That's where your team's leaders and best players have to step up!!!

I take away from this season that Hornacek still can not put together combinations to close out games, and stating that's your "teams's leaders" have to step up and do it? Are you serious? This team has ZERO team leaders. They have guys like Melo, Rose, and Noah who claim to be leaders, but we all know they are not. As for claiming ANY coach could not do better than Hornacek - you are either Hornacek's wife, his daughter, or his mother. He has been terrible as an in-game strategist. Guys like Baker, Willy, Kous, O'Quinn play really well - and somehow find themselves stapled to the bench the next game. That's on Hornacek

corvetteknick wrote:That's what you take away from this season? I don't think Hornacek is the source of the problems and sure he may have issues with making the right moves but really when you have the team's best players in the 4th qtr they should not be surrendering leads. It's very hard for ANY coach to overcome that problem.
At some point it has to be on the players on the floor to give effort and execute. A coach has limited control of what happens on the court after he makes a play call or substitution. That's where your team's leaders and best players have to step up!!!

I take away from this season that Hornacek still can not put together combinations to close out games, and stating that's your n"teams's leaders" have to step up and o? Are you serious? This team has ZERO team leaders. They have guys like Melo, Rose, and Noah who claim to be leaders, but we all know they are not. As for claiming ANY coach could not do better than Hornacek - you are either Hornacek's wife, his daughter, or his mother. He has been terrible as an in-game strategist. Guys like Baker, Willy, Kous, O'Quinn play really well - and somehow find themselves stapled to the bench the next game. That's on Hornacek

Hornacek may not be a good coach but I can't really tell how much is him and how much is on the team's top players. This is how I come down on this question tho. How many games do you think this team wins with CP3 or even Westbrook? Basically you want to blame the guy on the sideline When so much of the game on the floor is about the players!

I could rattle off a slew of coaches that would struggle in the same situation. Fix the roster first and then we'll see what kind of coach Hornacek is. Even the best coaches lose when the team's top players don't give max effort and play selfish ball.

Well it falls on either Phil or Hornacek, or both. The players on this team have been hand-picked by the GM (every one of them), and the coach was hired because he is in step philosophically with the GM (that's what he said). As such, it is their job to figure out the right combos. The players certainly need to be held accountable as well, but these players are what they are. I am assuming that guys like O'quinn, Willy, Kous, Baker would have found regular spots in the rotation by now, but Hornacek seems to be against a steady rotation. How can any consistency be built that way? And for a team that was once 16-13, they have certainly flat-out quit in many of the 30 game since (shame on them, but that also shows a complete lack of respect for a coach).

Look - we both can agree that this team is not very good and poorly coached. The key is how well they can draft the next 2-3 years (seem like lottery years) and whether they can build a new core.