Knicks · Can we all finally agree that KP is our center/ and melo is our super star PF for now and into the next few years/and lance sf. (page 2)

nyknickzingis wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:KP and Willy are our front court of the future. Melo is irrelevant

Not saying Melo is going to work out long term or stay
But assuming they play well with Melo at 4, KP at starting 5, they can run a 3 man rotation at C/PF

Willy can come in for Melo or KP.

But OQuinn is a real steal man he can play

KP and Willy combine better and can switch roles fluidly. Melo doesn't complement anyone, he just does what he does. KP/Willy/KOQ is a good frontcourt, makes Melo even moreexpendable

If melo waives his NTC in the summer, we might actually see very good results from a KP, willy, Lance front court next season.

fitzfarm wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:stupid auto correct "melo is OUR"

look at our second unit with that starting line up

Noah/KOQ
willy
kuz
holiday/baker
baker/randle

you can't blame phil for signing jennings or noah how could he know Baker was a lockdown defender perfect triangle back up pg, and willy was a rebounding machine.

Id like to see us groom willy into a low post PF he's pretty small for the center position and with KP there is no room for willy in our starting line up as a center or a back up center if noah is on this team for the long run. willy in the second unit is getting him more offensive touches and can be a major factor/backbone. when melo retires or is moved you can easily move willy into the starting 5 right into his prime, to have a bruising PF next to KP is perfect. now if we can get jordan jenkins in the draft and pushes lance to our back up role we will have quiet the team. thats a very defensive second unit with lance in it.

Come on with this bull crap. Baker lock down defender??? Total crap. Fair defensive player maybe, Way too slow to be a " lock down defender" Lets see him play Harden, Westbrook, etc. He will get torched!

Who doesn't get smoked by harden or Westbrook, esp when the refs make them super human.... baker is our second best defender to LT ... he can be a pest, it's time to admit baker is a solid rotation backcourt player... like lance his defensive effort is infectious.

Bruce Bowen was a lock down defender. I don't care who he played, you knew that player was going to struggle all night. Baker is slow footed , good hustle but just a decent defender. Our 2nd best defender??? Wow thats an accomplishment . I think I would be our 2nd best defender. Actually its probably Holiday. Baker might be a 10-12th man in the rotation. Nothing more. As we get better players Baker moves down the bench. Haven't seen too much Randle but like Randle better than Baker

Knixkik wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I like Lance and I think that his injury is one of the reasons we are struggling.

I 100 percent agree. I forgot how dynamic of a defender he was as well as a sneaky offensive player.

He's valuable. It's nice that he can also shoot a little bit. I wish he could do a little more offensively, but he's solid on both ends.

He's the Knick's version of Andre Roberson but with a jump shot.

In what universe is Melo a "superstar"? The one in his own mind?

stanleybostitch wrote:In what universe is Melo a "superstar"? The one in his own mind?

The problem is former superstars accepting when they have lost a step. We saw it the worst with Kobe. He was trying to hold onto stardom and his last couple of years were tough to watch. Melo was a superstar when he got here. He was when he led the Knicks to 54 wins without any other stars on the roster (i don't consider Tyson a star, although he was an elite role player.) Now he has lost a step or two and isn't changing his game for the better. It looked like he was learning to adjust last season when he dedicated himself to passing and rounding out his game to help compensate for his loss of scoring punch. I think Rose has had a very bad influence on him with his style of play because Melo has abandoned that well-rounded game he displayed and is trying to take turns playing iso with Rose. It's not a great situation.

I think that tht idea is a horror show. It's worse than a Roger Corman B horror film. KP ain't ready for 5. He'd be exploited and foul out. Needs 2 years to get to 255 and muscle up some. Likewise Melo is and will be a cancer so I'd take a Late first rounder asap and sent him to Balmer who will pay the premium. And Lance is fine but prefereably off the bench as he breaks down and isn't a starter.

KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

Look at KP tonight vs the warriors he dominated, its time to make him the focal point of the offense.... also more ron baker PLEASE he is our best defender guard he elevates everyones game... are there going to be rookie mistakes by ron of course but his positive outweighs his negative in a big way

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

They have the best record in the league. This is how most teams play. And he was being defended the best defender in the league (besides Kawhi) most of the game. It doesn't matter how they play, more-so who was guarding him. It was a big test that he passed on an individual level.

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

They have the best record in the league. This is how most teams play. And he was being defended the best defender in the league (besides Kawhi) most of the game. It doesn't matter how they play, more-so who was guarding him. It was a big test that he passed on an individual level.

Offensively I agree, but I'm talking about defence. Can he hold out if we play the pelicans?

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

They have the best record in the league. This is how most teams play. And he was being defended the best defender in the league (besides Kawhi) most of the game. It doesn't matter how they play, more-so who was guarding him. It was a big test that he passed on an individual level.

Offensively I agree, but I'm talking about defence. Can he hold out if we play the pelicans?

Davis and Cousins are better players than him at the moment. Of course he will struggle. It doesn't change the fact that he is already a very good center.

shinmen wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

They have the best record in the league. This is how most teams play. And he was being defended the best defender in the league (besides Kawhi) most of the game. It doesn't matter how they play, more-so who was guarding him. It was a big test that he passed on an individual level.

Offensively I agree, but I'm talking about defence. Can he hold out if we play the pelicans?

Davis and Cousins are better players than him at the moment. Of course he will struggle. It doesn't change the fact that he is already a very good center.

He would struggle even more if he was the center, Boogie would make a fool out of him the whole game.

Still a small sample size but in KP's game as starting 5 he's averaging 19.8 points and 8.8 rebounds a game. Looks like his rebounding improves at this position, and he gets closer to the basket looks being more often used as a roller to the basket setting screens. He needs to add some weight (not too much) in the summer and work on his post game. He's got great talent to be a beast at this spot. However his game against the Warriors showed the future blue print for this franchise. KP as our main man in the middle, paired with an attacking point guard, some great 3nD perimeter players around them.

It's quite amazing that the player that leads or practically leads the team statistically (PPG, near top EFG%, frontcourt best APG, minutes played and clutch shooting) is only a super star in his own mind.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

But let's all jerk off over Ron Baker and KP's tiny sample size at center.

I'm sure both of these players will be HOF bound in no time at all. Especially since we've won exactly how many games with KP and without DOUCHE Melo?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lead...

I mean, look at that list of players, all superstars only in their own minds, right?

jrodmc wrote:It's quite amazing that the player that leads or practically leads the team statistically (PPG, near top EFG%, frontcourt best APG, minutes played and clutch shooting) is only a super star in his own mind.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

But let's all jerk off over Ron Baker and KP's tiny sample size at center.

I'm sure both of these players will be HOF bound in no time at all. Especially since we've won exactly how many games with KP and without DOUCHE Melo?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lead...

I mean, look at that list of players, all superstars only in their own minds, right?

The team is -4.9 with Melo, and + without him.
He makes 25+ million. If you traded him for 2 decent role players and you move Rose up to Melo's spot as the alpha, the team would win the same number of games they have (30 wins a season)

Now I don't know if they win more than they would with Melo, but I'm sure we could win 30 gamea a year without Melo if we traded him. His net impact is not much. That's the problem, He's playing in the superstar/franchise player role, but not producing the impact of one, He should play like one of the top 3, not the the man, and he would be fine. Does he play this way? No.

Not that he isn't good or a great scorer. He is. However how you have to play having a Melo, it does not lead to many wins. You have to build your offense and team around his needs and he has a -4.9 impact according to advanaced stats. He is a horrible shooter in the 4th quarter according to the stats.

I don't believe all the problems are Melo, I don't even believe Melo is a big problem. I do believe Melo is neither here or there. He neither helps this team get into the playoffs, nor does he help this team move forward. So long as you have Melo, you are stuck. The other thing is his game is an iso heavy, mid-range/post up game that is no longer a strength in the modern NBA. He has value as an outside shooter and a passer/playmaker, which he does not use enough of. His bully ball game is not dominant like Jordan or Kobe where he can drop 40-45 consistently when he takes over. So you're stuck with a player who plays a style of game that doesn't fit in today's NBA. If he changed his game around, played more screen/roll and passed the ball, if he shot more outside jumpshots of catch and shoots instead of trying to isolate in the mid-range and post ups, I think we would see his impact be a positive. Then there's defense, which while is better at 4, is nothing to add value to again.

Melo needs to go to a team where he is forced to do what he is best at in this juncture of his career. Shoot from outside, pass the ball to other great scorers. He plays well on team USA because of that. He knows he is not the best player or the man and won't try to play like one. It's in the best interests of the team and Melo to move forward with a trade, but I have my doubts Melo sees it that way.

I don't know if you knew about this stat, but he is also the 5th worst shooter in the league in the 4th quarter as of the game vs Philadelphia. The franchise player being the 5th worst shooter in closing quarter is not exactly an asset. He clearly runs out of gas as the game wears on. It's not like Melo can't score or forgets to score by the 4th. It's that as the game goes on, opposing teams defense picks up and Melo doesn't have that extra gear anymore. I wish he played a 18 points 4 assists a night with heavy dose of outside shooting/3 point shooting type of game. He does sometimes, but not consistently. That's the role for him on a winning team right now.

jrodmc wrote:It's quite amazing that the player that leads or practically leads the team statistically (PPG, near top EFG%, frontcourt best APG, minutes played and clutch shooting) is only a super star in his own mind.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

But let's all jerk off over Ron Baker and KP's tiny sample size at center.

I'm sure both of these players will be HOF bound in no time at all. Especially since we've won exactly how many games with KP and without DOUCHE Melo?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lead...

I mean, look at that list of players, all superstars only in their own minds, right?

The advanced stats on KOQ were eye-opening... he should be utilized a lot more than he has been

Similarly, Ron Baker's were too -- he looks like complete trash when you evaluate him with those. I think he has some potential moving forward but he has to do much, much more

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:KP has been settled in pretty well as a center. He has been solid against golden state too. He's a 20/10 player as a starting center, and will improve defensively next season with added strength.

It also helps that GSW is a relatively small team with zero big men who actually pose a threat.

They have the best record in the league. This is how most teams play. And he was being defended the best defender in the league (besides Kawhi) most of the game. It doesn't matter how they play, more-so who was guarding him. It was a big test that he passed on an individual level.

Offensively I agree, but I'm talking about defence. Can he hold out if we play the pelicans?

Well no one can hold their own against Davis or Cousins. You can't compare him to those guys, because they are outliers. Generally speaking, KP will do fine against most centers. Against a few great centers, he will struggle like every other center in the league when matched up against a star player. KP should be playing a majority of his minutes at center, except when playing alongside Willy. He will stay healthier at center too, because he won't be chasing as much on defense, which wears him down much faster than fighting down low. Noah, when healthy, should be limited to spot minutes against bigger teams, and DNP on many nights to keep him fresh when needed. O'Quinn should be dealt while his value is still there for a draft pick or a quality rotation guard. We probably already missed the boat on his peak value by not dealing him at the deadline. His value will still be there this summer, but not quite as high given he only has one more year before his player option. Plus we have plumlee has a 4th center behind KP, Willy, and Noah, which makes O'Quinn even more expendable.

SupremeCommander wrote:

jrodmc wrote:It's quite amazing that the player that leads or practically leads the team statistically (PPG, near top EFG%, frontcourt best APG, minutes played and clutch shooting) is only a super star in his own mind.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

But let's all jerk off over Ron Baker and KP's tiny sample size at center.

I'm sure both of these players will be HOF bound in no time at all. Especially since we've won exactly how many games with KP and without DOUCHE Melo?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lead...

I mean, look at that list of players, all superstars only in their own minds, right?

The advanced stats on KOQ were eye-opening... he should be utilized a lot more than he has been

Similarly, Ron Baker's were too -- he looks like complete trash when you evaluate him with those. I think he has some potential moving forward but he has to do much, much more

Melo is a true superstar surrounded by junkies on bad team for 7 years already.
His sacrifice to NY is enormous. He knew that team will lose almost every year and he still stick around.
He is due for another 2 years of losing. His golden statue must be erected in front of the Garden with the slogan curved in stone:
"Always losing but never a loser!!!"

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

jrodmc wrote:It's quite amazing that the player that leads or practically leads the team statistically (PPG, near top EFG%, frontcourt best APG, minutes played and clutch shooting) is only a super star in his own mind.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...

But let's all jerk off over Ron Baker and KP's tiny sample size at center.

I'm sure both of these players will be HOF bound in no time at all. Especially since we've won exactly how many games with KP and without DOUCHE Melo?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lead...

I mean, look at that list of players, all superstars only in their own minds, right?

The advanced stats on KOQ were eye-opening... he should be utilized a lot more than he has been

Similarly, Ron Baker's were too -- he looks like complete trash when you evaluate him with those. I think he has some potential moving forward but he has to do much, much more

Melo is a true superstar surrounded by junkies on bad team for 7 years already.
His sacrifice to NY is enormous. He knew that team will lose almost every year and he still stick around.
He is due for another 2 years of losing. His golden statue must be erected in front of the Garden with the slogan curved in stone:
"Always losing but never a loser!!!"

More like:

"I came here when I saw no one else in the league had the cojones to do so..."

Or

"Give me your poor, your aged, your one-hit wonders, your deranged boneheads, your NBDL rejects, your over-hyped, ring-laden, rookie geriatric executives..."