Knicks · Trade Ideas with the Knicks pick........ (page 2)

We're not getting Wiggins and the Kings are arguably the team most likely to go against general wisdom to move up to get a player they like..... Have you seen the stuff their owner does? Arguably he is as bad as Dolan..... Moving up to get a player they like sounds exactly like something they would do

EnySpree wrote:Wiggins is a good player that's still only 21.... if Minnesota wanted to trade him for our pick and Rose... I think it's something we need to consider. Wiggins is a 23 pt a game scorer. It's on a bad team but fuck that... make the right trade for Melo and you can accelerate this rebuild

But it all depends how this lottery and draft go... this scenerio I'm sure is on the table

I'm not feeling Wiggins at all. Good player but too cool for school.

Our team is rebuilding, it takes patience. If we can do conditioal with Sacramento to get the right players then ok, Otherwise we take BPA. Our future is at risk, we don't need yhis position more than that, too many holes on this roster to worry about that.

Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Fuck no! Maybe if Sacramento is offering their two 1st rounders, in the 4-8 range, then it's at least something to consider. Rubio's a nice player who would definitely improve the team but he's not the difference between winning 30 games and winning 50. And I wasn't a believer in Wiggins while he was playing in NCAA and I'm not a believer in him now. He scores a lot of points but he does it on really mediocre efficiency. He doesn't rebound and he doesn't assist (he actually averages more turnovers than assists) particularly well. And his defense, which was supposedly his calling card even though he wasn't very good in NCAA, is pretty below average as well. It certainly isn't impossible that he eventually reaches his potential but let someone else pay a premium to find out. As it is, I wouldn't have traded a top 10 pick in last year's lousy class and certainly wouldn't trade one in this year's loaded one.

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

Swishfm3 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

Jamal Murray won rookie of the month for Denver this season. Hardaway is playing damn well this season. Shumper has a ring and is a rotation player for a team that has made the finals the past two years. Gordon Hayward is one of the best young players in the league. Saric is the favorite to win rookie of the year this year. Porzingis is our current best building block. So that's 6 out of 7 valuable pieces in the first round.

Swishfm3 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

A bunch of names? Well we could have used some of those names instead of trading them for crap like we did for 16 years. Look I know there are a few who don't believe in "building through the draft" but we tried doing it the other way for over a decade and actually got worse. time to focus on the draft for a change

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

A bunch of names? Well we could have used some of those names instead of trading them for crap like we did for 16 years. Look I know there are a few who don't believe in "building through the draft" but we tried doing it the other way for over a decade and actually got worse. time to focus on the draft for a change

The only person from that list, that crzymdups provided, that we could have used is B.Hayward. We have KP, to early to call on Murray (although he hasn't done anything significant yet) and Saric, Shumpert and Hardaway are bums and, again, maybe you missed this...

ROYCE WHITE IS NO LONGER IN THE NBA!!!!

You like the lottery, to gamble..to hope and dream. thats great. I would rather use this as leverage to steal other teams already proven commodities.

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

A bunch of names? Well we could have used some of those names instead of trading them for crap like we did for 16 years. Look I know there are a few who don't believe in "building through the draft" but we tried doing it the other way for over a decade and actually got worse. time to focus on the draft for a change

The only person from that list, that crzymdups provided, that we could have used is B.Hayward. We have KP, to early to call on Murray (although he hasn't done anything significant yet) and Saric, Shumpert and Hardaway are bums and, again, maybe you missed this...

ROYCE WHITE IS NO LONGER IN THE NBA!!!!

You like the lottery, to gamble..to hope and dream. thats great. I would rather use this as leverage to steal other teams already proven commodities.

Saric is winning rookie of the year this year.

Swishfm3 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Rose and our pick for WIggins/Rubio? HELL YES!

I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks. I love the NBA Draft and the excitement it brings but the chances have actually drafting an All-Star is very slim.

Don't take my word for it..just look at the last 6 years.

2010 - Gordon Hayward drafted with our pick via Marbury trade
2011 - Shumpert
2012 - Royce White drafted with our pick from Jared Jeffries trade
2013 - Tim Hardaway Jr
2014 - Dario Saric draft with our pick from Melo trade, looking like rookie of the year this year after several years overseas
2015 - Kristaps Porzingis
2016 - Jamal Murray from the Melo and Bargnani trades

Those players would be infinitely better than the team we have now.

When will people learn? That's not even mentioning how our Eddy Curry trade picks became LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

Royce White? T. Hardaway??? I.Shumpert?!?

All you did was list a bunch of names, lol...White isn't even IN THE LEAGUE!!! LMAO.......and wtf is Murray? GTFOH with this bullsh!!t list.

A bunch of names? Well we could have used some of those names instead of trading them for crap like we did for 16 years. Look I know there are a few who don't believe in "building through the draft" but we tried doing it the other way for over a decade and actually got worse. time to focus on the draft for a change

The only person from that list, that crzymdups provided, that we could have used is B.Hayward. We have KP, to early to call on Murray (although he hasn't done anything significant yet) and Saric, Shumpert and Hardaway are bums and, again, maybe you missed this...

ROYCE WHITE IS NO LONGER IN THE NBA!!!!

You like the lottery, to gamble..to hope and dream. thats great. I would rather use this as leverage to steal other teams already proven commodities.

Like I said trading our picks for "veterans" has NEVER worked out for us its true. in fact we got worse lol

Swishfm3 wrote:I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks.

What other choice is there?

Three practical team building methodologies in the current NBA.

A) Trade everyone you can and tank. Consistently lose and hope you get a few franchise type players at the top of the lottery

B) Sign key free agents ( Nash to Suns, Shaq to Lakers, LBJ to Heat/Cavs) Which shows only a very very very very small number of players like this move and make a huge difference. In almost every case, there were complex circumstances in play why they were available. These were market anomalies, not trends that bear out consistently

C) Rebuild without tanking ( Houston moving for Harden and Howard, again instances where complex circumstances were involved and could not be easily duplicated)

Alot of people act as if draft picked players, if they can't form a guarantee, then why bother. This is an insane way to approach rebuilding a team.

The methodology is you are trying to give yourself A CHANCE, an OPPORTUNITY. You are NOT GETTING ANY GUARANTEE. If you refuse to rebuild, then you get NO OPPORTUNITY AT ALL.

No Opportunity At All Versus A Chance But Maybe A Slim One

^

The above is the reality. Some of you want more than that, and you likely want more than that because you don't fundamentally understand how the NBA marketplace operates.

So Detroit took the night off. Our # 5 could be # 7 - sign and trade Rose and Quinn to secure a late first in addition to the one we have. If Fox is there grab him. I thin post tournament it's Fultz/Ball/TATum/Jackson/Fox/Smith/ISaac/...then Monk

TripleThreat wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I will never understand the love affair people on this site have with draft picks.

What other choice is there?

Three practical team building methodologies in the current NBA.

A) Trade everyone you can and tank. Consistently lose and hope you get a few franchise type players at the top of the lottery

B) Sign key free agents ( Nash to Suns, Shaq to Lakers, LBJ to Heat/Cavs) Which shows only a very very very very small number of players like this move and make a huge difference. In almost every case, there were complex circumstances in play why they were available. These were market anomalies, not trends that bear out consistently

C) Rebuild without tanking ( Houston moving for Harden and Howard, again instances where complex circumstances were involved and could not be easily duplicated)

Alot of people act as if draft picked players, if they can't form a guarantee, then why bother. This is an insane way to approach rebuilding a team.

The methodology is you are trying to give yourself A CHANCE, an OPPORTUNITY. You are NOT GETTING ANY GUARANTEE. If you refuse to rebuild, then you get NO OPPORTUNITY AT ALL.

No Opportunity At All Versus A Chance But Maybe A Slim One

^

The above is the reality. Some of you want more than that, and you likely want more than that because you don't fundamentally understand how the NBA marketplace operates.

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser.

This was, the infamous, TKF's signature when he used to post here...and I agree with it.

I am not against the draft or a rebuild but if an opportunity comes up where we can trade our pick for a young player that already has a couple of years in the league and has shown that he can handle the everyday rigors of the NBA, why not make that move?

I would rather trade my pick for a Wiggins then risk drafting a player like A.Bennett or D.Williams

The core of my idea was for Wiggins. A 21 year old. We not talking about 33 year old Rolando Blackmon!!!!
Rubio for Rose gets us ball movement.
Im not promoting this as "We should" idea. I see it only if Phil sees Wiggins as his alpha and Minny does not.
Value wise we would have to sweeten the pot.
If we not top 4 pick, this won't work.

reub wrote:

wargames wrote:Right now I think the pick is Fox......

However the only trade I would accept (and potentially be happy with) would be to trade down from #4 for Sacramento's two lottery picks #7 and #10. That works if the goal is to draft NTilkina since I could see him still there at #7 and then they can make a move for another young pick (justin Jackson seems like an ideal Tryangle SF). That of course relies on the idea that the Kings would want to move up for Tatum or Fox.

If we the 1 or 2 pick I keep it and take Fultz or Ball. If it's #3 I'd try to move it to Sacramento and take Ntilikina AND Isaac. I'd even throw in my two #2 picks to make it happen if that's what it takes. My reasoning is that Isaac can be as good if not better than Jackson and Ntilikina might be Greek Freak special.

Chad Ford doesn't even have Frank Nitkilina in his top 10 big board.

wargames wrote:We're not getting Wiggins and the Kings are arguably the team most likely to go against general wisdom to move up to get a player they like..... Have you seen the stuff their owner does? Arguably he is as bad as Dolan..... Moving up to get a player they like sounds exactly like something they would do

Unless they could trade both of their picks to get one of L.Ball or M.Fultz then it would be a bad move to trade both picks for a pick at 3 or later anyway with this draft being so strong that they'll come away with two players that have a solid chance at being as good or better than any player after those two with maybe J.Jackson being with Ball and Fultz.

Swishfm3 wrote:
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser.

This was, the infamous, TKF's signature when he used to post here...and I agree with it.

I am not against the draft or a rebuild but if an opportunity comes up where we can trade our pick for a young player that already has a couple of years in the league and has shown that he can handle the everyday rigors of the NBA, why not make that move?

I would rather trade my pick for a Wiggins then risk drafting a player like A.Bennett or D.Williams

Why not make that move?

BECAUSE THE TIMBERWOLVES WOULD NEVER EVER MAKE THAT TRADE.

The kind of trade the TWolve WOULD MAKE would be one that wasn't so lopsided in favor of the Knicks, in which case, the value would be far less, and the Knicks wouldn't want that alternate version of a deal anyway.

What part of this do you NOT UNDERSTAND

The same reason why you are saying the Knicks should want a trade like this IS THE EXACT SAME REASON THE TIMBERWOLVES WOULD NOT WANT TO MAKE THAT EXACT SAME TRADE.

A "good" and "feasible" trade scenario does not include any situation where the non Knicks franchise operates out of complete self interest simply to make the Knicks better. Translation - It's easy for Knicks fans to talk about what boils down to trade rape of another franchise, but if the other franchise's front office is going to immediately lose their jobs over it, those kind of one sided/lopsided deals will never ever happen.

Every NBA trade has to, at some level,

1) Be justifiable to the franchises owner or ownership group
2) Survive the scrutiny of public and fan perception
3) Be, at minimum, defensible in the media
4) Fall in line, in some fashion, to actual and current NBA "marketplace" informal values
5) The deal in place has to be the current BEST OVERALL OPTION OUT OF ALL POTENTIAL TRADE OFFERS AVAILABLE

Do NBA teams make stupid trades and signings. All the time, but you CANNOT RELY ON THEM. You also cannot bet on a deal proposed that is the equal to that GM basically putting a gun to his own head and pulling the trigger.

You keep saying, why not get an Andrew Wiggins instead of risking a pick on a Derrick Williams, without considering the TWolves are making that same conclusion themselves.

And IF the TWolves decided to trade Wiggins, could they get more than Rose and what might even be a Tier 1 lottery pick? Absolutely they can.

You are discussing a trade that

1) Defies actual and current NBA "marketplace values"
2) Is not defensible to the other teams ownership and fanbase and media scrutiny
3) Is not the best potential deal that the team could likely make
4) Where you give one of the major reasons yourself why the non Knicks team should not make the deal

You are literally trying to saddle a unicorn right now. In the world where this trade would happen, the sky is made of cotton candy and there are rivers of chocolate flowing everywhere. The street are paved with gold and every chicks looks like Ariana Grande and loves to give blowjobs.

Is the NBA draft a total crapshoot? Yes.

Here's the part you seem to refuse to accept.

For most teams, nearly all teams, except in some extreme circumstances, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE?

Rebuilding an NBA team is not like rebuilding a team in any other sport. How many 6'7 dudes are there in the world with the extreme athleticism to play the modern NBA game? In a talent pool so very thin, of course any rebuild is fraught with risk and ends up mostly in failure. That's due to talent scarcity, based on height dependency in the core player pool available.

Of course the Knicks should take a deal getting Wiggins for basically scrap and risk. But they would never get that deal. Just like Ariana Grande is not going to finish paving a street with gold after you or I unload our balls into her face. Not going to happen.

dude chill...I was just using Wiggins has an example because he was in the "fake" trade that Nalod used in the original post.