Knicks · Game thread: Ali had frazier but first beat Liston, Knicks need to tank and not beat Piston!!! (page 12)
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:lol at me being Latvian, that's a good one !
I am saying you can not equate being statistically decent in a category to overall style of play.Rose may average 4-5 assists. However he plays like a SG. A team that has issues passing the ball, playing too much isolation, you don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it's top 2 players play a certain way?
The point I was making. Just because KP is good at blocking shots doesn't make him a good defender. He is not a good defender, yet. Same way, Rose may lead the team in assists but that does not mean he should be seen as a good passer. He has poor passing instincts unless it's pick and roll basketball with a big rolling, He is only good at passing when the big is rolling. Any other situation his PG skills are very weak at the NBA level.
Melo may be good in certain stats, but the thing that was quite obvious was that he came into this season in shoot first, second and third mode. That combined with Rose's inability to be a good PG, really hurt our offensive chemistry.
If there's one thing you definitely don't want in the Triangle, it's a shooting guard type player who can get to the rim at will and averages 5apg. That would never work in the Triangle, which has never had success with shooting guard type players and has always relied on pure point guards.
You can't this daft without it being on purpose right?
Kobe and MJ played Lee's and Melo's role. Fisher and Paxton played Rose's role.
They brought the ball up, and passed then went to shoot three pointers. If the guy was open, made the pass.
The PG in the Triangle does not play Rose's role. What Rose does is different.
That said, I don't think we ran much Triangle until recent. Rose has gotten some support from Horny in recent weeks on his adjustemnt. Who knows what the season would have been at the start of the year all Tri.
Anyway back to your point, no way man, is Rose or was Rose ever playing the MJ or Kobe role. Go watch youtube videos on how MJ and Kobe played in the Triangle. Much more like a better Melo. Much better.
nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:lol at me being Latvian, that's a good one !
I am saying you can not equate being statistically decent in a category to overall style of play.Rose may average 4-5 assists. However he plays like a SG. A team that has issues passing the ball, playing too much isolation, you don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it's top 2 players play a certain way?
The point I was making. Just because KP is good at blocking shots doesn't make him a good defender. He is not a good defender, yet. Same way, Rose may lead the team in assists but that does not mean he should be seen as a good passer. He has poor passing instincts unless it's pick and roll basketball with a big rolling, He is only good at passing when the big is rolling. Any other situation his PG skills are very weak at the NBA level.
Melo may be good in certain stats, but the thing that was quite obvious was that he came into this season in shoot first, second and third mode. That combined with Rose's inability to be a good PG, really hurt our offensive chemistry.
If there's one thing you definitely don't want in the Triangle, it's a shooting guard type player who can get to the rim at will and averages 5apg. That would never work in the Triangle, which has never had success with shooting guard type players and has always relied on pure point guards.
You can't this daft without it being on purpose right?
Kobe and MJ played Lee's and Melo's role. Fisher and Paxton played Rose's role.They brought the ball up, and passed then went to shoot three pointers. If the guy was open, made the pass.
The PG in the Triangle does not play Rose's role. What Rose does is different.That said, I don't think we ran much Triangle until recent. Rose has gotten some support from Horny in recent weeks on his adjustemnt. Who knows what the season would have been at the start of the year all Tri.
Anyway back to your point, no way man, is Rose or was Rose ever playing the MJ or Kobe role. Go watch youtube videos on how MJ and Kobe played in the Triangle. Much more like a better Melo. Much better.
So your argument is the Triangle has failed because Melo is not Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant - two of the top ten (maybe five) players of all time? And that's Melo's fault, not Phil's? Thumbs up. Couldn't have said it better myself.
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:lol at me being Latvian, that's a good one !
I am saying you can not equate being statistically decent in a category to overall style of play.Rose may average 4-5 assists. However he plays like a SG. A team that has issues passing the ball, playing too much isolation, you don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it's top 2 players play a certain way?
The point I was making. Just because KP is good at blocking shots doesn't make him a good defender. He is not a good defender, yet. Same way, Rose may lead the team in assists but that does not mean he should be seen as a good passer. He has poor passing instincts unless it's pick and roll basketball with a big rolling, He is only good at passing when the big is rolling. Any other situation his PG skills are very weak at the NBA level.
Melo may be good in certain stats, but the thing that was quite obvious was that he came into this season in shoot first, second and third mode. That combined with Rose's inability to be a good PG, really hurt our offensive chemistry.
If there's one thing you definitely don't want in the Triangle, it's a shooting guard type player who can get to the rim at will and averages 5apg. That would never work in the Triangle, which has never had success with shooting guard type players and has always relied on pure point guards.
You can't this daft without it being on purpose right?
Kobe and MJ played Lee's and Melo's role. Fisher and Paxton played Rose's role.They brought the ball up, and passed then went to shoot three pointers. If the guy was open, made the pass.
The PG in the Triangle does not play Rose's role. What Rose does is different.That said, I don't think we ran much Triangle until recent. Rose has gotten some support from Horny in recent weeks on his adjustemnt. Who knows what the season would have been at the start of the year all Tri.
Anyway back to your point, no way man, is Rose or was Rose ever playing the MJ or Kobe role. Go watch youtube videos on how MJ and Kobe played in the Triangle. Much more like a better Melo. Much better.
So your argument is the Triangle has failed because Melo is not Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant - two of the top ten (maybe five) players of all time? And that's Melo's fault, not Phil's? Thumbs up. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I think the more rational explanation is that Melo could most definitely have bought into the ball movement of the offense as he did last year. It's not about being exactly like MJ and Kobe but rather assuming the role of a lead player and making the most of it. Melo will always be able to get his but as you saw tonight he didn't have to force it much. Just let it come to him and move the ball in the flow.
smackeddog wrote:Dammit Nalod, martin was on a perfect 0-4 on game threads he started- if we win, it's on you
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1 or 2 more wins is the difference between 4th pick and 8th! They think they deserve some wins for morale?! They don't deserve to feel good about this season- they have sucked most of the year, played selfish, played no defense, put in little effort and not listened to coach- they deserve to feel crap about it. Now they think some meaningless wins will make them feel good while destroying our future?! ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:lol at me being Latvian, that's a good one !
I am saying you can not equate being statistically decent in a category to overall style of play.Rose may average 4-5 assists. However he plays like a SG. A team that has issues passing the ball, playing too much isolation, you don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it's top 2 players play a certain way?
The point I was making. Just because KP is good at blocking shots doesn't make him a good defender. He is not a good defender, yet. Same way, Rose may lead the team in assists but that does not mean he should be seen as a good passer. He has poor passing instincts unless it's pick and roll basketball with a big rolling, He is only good at passing when the big is rolling. Any other situation his PG skills are very weak at the NBA level.
Melo may be good in certain stats, but the thing that was quite obvious was that he came into this season in shoot first, second and third mode. That combined with Rose's inability to be a good PG, really hurt our offensive chemistry.
If there's one thing you definitely don't want in the Triangle, it's a shooting guard type player who can get to the rim at will and averages 5apg. That would never work in the Triangle, which has never had success with shooting guard type players and has always relied on pure point guards.
You can't this daft without it being on purpose right?
Kobe and MJ played Lee's and Melo's role. Fisher and Paxton played Rose's role.They brought the ball up, and passed then went to shoot three pointers. If the guy was open, made the pass.
The PG in the Triangle does not play Rose's role. What Rose does is different.That said, I don't think we ran much Triangle until recent. Rose has gotten some support from Horny in recent weeks on his adjustemnt. Who knows what the season would have been at the start of the year all Tri.
Anyway back to your point, no way man, is Rose or was Rose ever playing the MJ or Kobe role. Go watch youtube videos on how MJ and Kobe played in the Triangle. Much more like a better Melo. Much better.
So your argument is the Triangle has failed because Melo is not Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant - two of the top ten (maybe five) players of all time? And that's Melo's fault, not Phil's? Thumbs up. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Again it seems you're purposely being daft with this.
You pointed to Rose's skills being good or same to MJ. I disagree. MJ was great off the ball, he was great with the ball and a dominant scorer but he played the 2/3 role while Paxton or BJ Armstrong brought the ball up. sometimes Pippen as well. That is not what Rose is supposed to do.
It has nothing to do with Melo, atleast in terms of what we were discussing about Rose. Rose is not good at coming off the ball and taking midrange jumpshots, something MJ was great at. Melo can do it, which is what I was saying
For Rose to be a good point guard in the Triangle he needs to be a better 3 point shooter and better at playing off the ball. To be fair to him he has done a solid job since the all star break. He has not laid eggs or rolled over. He has done pretty well.
The season in general, at the start of the year, up to the 40-45 game mark, I thought Rose played with tunnel vision. I don't think he's a good point guard in a PG reliant offense. He plays extremly selfish basketball. He does not find open teammamtes and has tunnel vision on drives. We saw this and complained about it alot of the year. Don't know why this is about the Triangle now. Rose is who he is, and didn't make much adjustments during the first 45 games of the year. Both he and Melo played the same way they played in their careers, which is high usage rate, not looking to pass often or find the open man, looking to get "theirs".
fishmike wrote:if you watch any of these highlights the thing that jumps out is how many good shots start with a Willy screen. He had a "quiet" 15pts and 5rebs on 6-9 shooting but he was all over the place on offense setting bruising screens and moving the ball. This guy is showing so many positives
Yeah but he's not a building block. KP and Willy aren't worth building around. 
In general good things have happened as Willy has gotten more and more PT. You can see how he can impact how the team plays. The chemistry has been improving and I look forward to seeing how he grows as a player.
Also loved how KP played. Much closer to the basket where he's very accurate. Saw more of the Down Screen Catch and Shoot looks. Little Curls and Slashing to the hoop.