Knicks · Maybe Gaynes told Phil Frank hast beast potential.. (page 2)

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

The concern about Frank has definitely been the opposition he faced in the French league. It's not as strong as the Spanish leagues...

That said, Draft Express is pretty well respected when it comes to their scouting videos. They've certainly been wrong before.

Most 18yr old Euro kids are projects. We may have gotten a little spoiled by KP and Willy being ready, polished, and hungry. It doesn't always happen like that.

Also, I don't have any stats on this, but I feel like for Euro bigs moving over to the US game is easier... for guards, the transition is harder.

That said, if Gaines was all in on Frank... I'd be very curious. Especially if Fox is off the board by the time we pick.

Moonangie wrote:Wow, impressive scouting video. This kid looks great for us. Checks all the boxes, with an extra checkmark in the D box. Anything pick 6 or lower and he's a no-brainer. Picks 1-5 he probably won't be our guy.
1. Fultz/Ball
2. Ball/Fultz
3. JJ
4. Monk/Fox
5. Fox/Monk
6. Frank

I agree with this ranking in general... though I'd have Fox over Monk. And Jackson over everyone. But otherwise agree.

Moonangie wrote:Wow, impressive scouting video. This kid looks great for us. Checks all the boxes, with an extra checkmark in the D box. Anything pick 6 or lower and he's a no-brainer. Picks 1-5 he probably won't be our guy.

1. Fultz/Ball
2. Ball/Fultz
3. JJ
4. Monk/Fox
5. Fox/Monk
6. Frank

yea it will come down to workouts. This kid is a high ranked prospect for a reason. He killed it against same aged competition and has looked good in small runs vs. pros.

smackeddog wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you guys are funny, you actually think this team was tanking..Tanking would mean starting baker, randle and ndour

It's amazing how many times it needs to be said that players and coaches do not tank and you can't blame them for that. I'm with everyone on wanting as high a pick as possible but i like what Hornachek said after the game that maybe the teams that do keep playing hard and not tank will get some good karma when the ping pong balls come up. We won 2 out of our last 3 games last year and ended up with KP.

All jokes aside, i actually do think Ntilikina is the most likely pick for this team, if we don't draft in the top 3. Assuming we draft 6th or 7th, i see Ntilikina checking all of the boxes of what both Phil and Hornacek would want. Fox is amazing, but lacks the outside shooting, Monk is amazing but might lack the position on defense, and Smith is great but seems a lot like Rose. Ntilikina is a big guard, who can shoot, defend, and pass. It's rare to find a guy who has upside in all 3 areas. My biggest concern with him really is does he have star potential like the other guys? And will we have the patience for a player who is still 18 years old? But this player has the look of a Phil pick.

Yeah, any time I watch this kid, I get really excited about his potential.

You have maybe the one point guard in the league who could legitimately guard Giannis Antetokounmpo.

If he can really shoot like that and his vision is that good... he could be the perfect PG for us.

I'd still say my draft board for the Knicks is -

1) Josh Jackson
2) De'Aaron Fox
3) Frank Ntilikina

I'd be excited about any of those guys. There are other guys out there, to be sure... but I think those three just check so many boxes for us in terms of toughness, athleticism, passing, defense, speed, etc

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms * and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

*Couple of folks have corrected me on this-indicating that Fox's wingspan was nothing like the French player's. Very surprised...Fox seemed to have long arms...

Does not make me change my opinion of Fox. Very impressed with this guy...he's a gamer, and I expect Jackson will give him a long look.

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

I was actually shocked to see Fox's wingspan on DX listed between 6'4" and 6'6"... curious to see how accurate that 7'0" wingspan listed for Frank is.

But, yeah, agreed otherwise - I'd be thrilled to come away from this draft with either guy.

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

Fox looks to be fast and we already know he's a stud on defense. Frank showed it against similar age, but he's a much longer player than Fox. Fox measured 6'6 while Frank supposedly has a 7' wingspan. If thats true it makes Frank's physical tools a notch higher. I wonder if they can get them both in for a workout. That would be a great head to head

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

I was actually shocked to see Fox's wingspan on DX listed between 6'4" and 6'6"... curious to see how accurate that 7'0" wingspan listed for Frank is.

But, yeah, agreed otherwise - I'd be thrilled to come away from this draft with either guy.

Wow...seemed much longer to me...looked like he had gumby arms at times...surprised at this.

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

I was actually shocked to see Fox's wingspan on DX listed between 6'4" and 6'6"... curious to see how accurate that 7'0" wingspan listed for Frank is.

But, yeah, agreed otherwise - I'd be thrilled to come away from this draft with either guy.

Wow...seemed much longer to me...looked like he had gumby arms at times...surprised at this.

Yeah, I agree, I was shocked, too. Fox's wingspan seemed a lot longer. Will be interesting to see if he goes to the combine... but a lot of the top lotto picks don't even bother with the combine anymore.

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

Fox looks to be fast and we already know he's a stud on defense. Frank showed it against similar age, but he's a much longer player than Fox. Fox measured 6'6 while Frank supposedly has a 7' wingspan. If thats true it makes Frank's physical tools a notch higher. I wonder if they can get them both in for a workout. That would be a great head to head

Just commented to someone else about Fox's wingspan...Seemed like he had pretty long arms in the games I saw. Still like Fox a lot, and will again say that I think his shooting will evolve.

That would be a good workout to watch...unfortunately agents frequently keep that kind of thing from happening.

Sometimes it's about what you do with your arms and not their length.

WaltLongmire wrote:

fishmike wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

Fox looks to be fast and we already know he's a stud on defense. Frank showed it against similar age, but he's a much longer player than Fox. Fox measured 6'6 while Frank supposedly has a 7' wingspan. If thats true it makes Frank's physical tools a notch higher. I wonder if they can get them both in for a workout. That would be a great head to head

Just commented to someone else about Fox's wingspan...Seemed like he had pretty long arms in the games I saw. Still like Fox a lot, and will again say that I think his shooting will evolve.

That would be a good workout to watch...unfortunately agents frequently keep that kind of thing from happening.

Fox is lightning quick. I mean the part you dont worry about with Fox being on an NBA level is that. He's not big. He's great on the ball. So was Jennings. I think Fox is about 6'2, maybe 6'3 with a 6'6 or maybe 6'7 wingspan. With that quickness he appears to be a very long player. Frank is 6'6 with a 7'0 wingspan. Essentially a taller Rondo. Vids of Frank make him look gangly because he is. I dont know if he's got Fox's quickness. The ultimate package is Fox's quickness with Frank's length. Then you start going into some rare company. I think any indication of that reality is premature for sure. We will hear plenty more when the workouts start

Knixkik wrote:We aren't losing every game to finish the year. That's just not realistic.

hahha though you know this would happen if all we needed was one win to secure a plyoff spot.

Knixkik wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you guys are funny, you actually think this team was tanking..Tanking would mean starting baker, randle and ndour

It's amazing how many times it needs to be said that players and coaches do not tank and you can't blame them for that. I'm with everyone on wanting as high a pick as possible but i like what Hornachek said after the game that maybe the teams that do keep playing hard and not tank will get some good karma when the ping pong balls come up. We won 2 out of our last 3 games last year and ended up with KP.

All jokes aside, i actually do think Ntilikina is the most likely pick for this team, if we don't draft in the top 3. Assuming we draft 6th or 7th, i see Ntilikina checking all of the boxes of what both Phil and Hornacek would want. Fox is amazing, but lacks the outside shooting, Monk is amazing but might lack the position on defense, and Smith is great but seems a lot like Rose. Ntilikina is a big guard, who can shoot, defend, and pass. It's rare to find a guy who has upside in all 3 areas. My biggest concern with him really is does he have star potential like the other guys? And will we have the patience for a player who is still 18 years old? But this player has the look of a Phil pick.

Does he have huge upside? If not, wondering if it would be feasible to try and pry away Kyle Anderson or Shaun Livingston is we just wanted an exceptionally long guard

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

The concern about Frank has definitely been the opposition he faced in the French league. It's not as strong as the Spanish leagues...

That said, Draft Express is pretty well respected when it comes to their scouting videos. They've certainly been wrong before.

Most 18yr old Euro kids are projects. We may have gotten a little spoiled by KP and Willy being ready, polished, and hungry. It doesn't always happen like that.

Also, I don't have any stats on this, but I feel like for Euro bigs moving over to the US game is easier... for guards, the transition is harder.

That said, if Gaines was all in on Frank... I'd be very curious. Especially if Fox is off the board by the time we pick.

Moonangie wrote:Wow, impressive scouting video. This kid looks great for us. Checks all the boxes, with an extra checkmark in the D box. Anything pick 6 or lower and he's a no-brainer. Picks 1-5 he probably won't be our guy.
1. Fultz/Ball
2. Ball/Fultz
3. JJ
4. Monk/Fox
5. Fox/Monk
6. Frank

I agree with this ranking in general... though I'd have Fox over Monk. And Jackson over everyone. But otherwise agree.

good point especially when it comes to guards. Dante Exum is a good exhibit A. D. Shroeder and Rubio have been ok/good but not spectacular.

We'd have to have ultimate confidence in our scouting

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms * and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

*Couple of folks have corrected me on this-indicating that Fox's wingspan was nothing like the French player's. Very surprised...Fox seemed to have long arms...

Does not make me change my opinion of Fox. Very impressed with this guy...he's a gamer, and I expect Jackson will give him a long look.

keep in mind that included Rubio and J.Flynn. And FWIW we shouldn't fool ourselves if we had the choice back then of Rubio and Steph we would have taken Rubio. That was pretty clear. We knew however that wasn't going to happen and only in view of that would we have "settled" for Steph if he fell to us, but alas.

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

I remember watching a draft express video on tony douglas, and Anthony Randolph, those guys were lookilike sure fire hits..I was so pumped, thought we hit the jack pot

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

I remember watching a draft express video on tony douglas, and Anthony Randolph, those guys were lookilike sure fire hits..I was so pumped, thought we hit the jack pot

A sure fire hit at pick 29 (Toney Douglas)? I'm not so sure...

Chandler wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms * and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

*Couple of folks have corrected me on this-indicating that Fox's wingspan was nothing like the French player's. Very surprised...Fox seemed to have long arms...

Does not make me change my opinion of Fox. Very impressed with this guy...he's a gamer, and I expect Jackson will give him a long look.

keep in mind that included Rubio and J.Flynn. And FWIW we shouldn't fool ourselves if we had the choice back then of Rubio and Steph we would have taken Rubio. That was pretty clear. We knew however that wasn't going to happen and only in view of that would we have "settled" for Steph if he fell to us, but alas.

Disagree on this...MDA loved Curry and Curry's dad wanted him with MDA. I was a fan of Rubio, but also assumed that his shot, which is not terrible looking, would actually be effective at some point.

MDA needed someone who was a sniper like Nash, who could drive to the basket and kick out...Curry was that player.

mendoza1906 wrote:This doesn't make sense. If this was the case we could have tried to tank and tried to get the best pick possible. And than find a trading partner (let's say somebody like the trail blazers) to trade down our pick to them for their pick and a early second round pick(s).

Early 2nds? Do you pay attention to NBA draft trades? Nets got 3 first rounders the 13,18, and 23rd for the 7th pick in the draft. This trade was great for the Nets, but this isn't the NFL, quantity over quality is a very bad idea.

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:you guys are funny, you actually think this team was tanking..Tanking would mean starting baker, randle and ndour

It's amazing how many times it needs to be said that players and coaches do not tank and you can't blame them for that. I'm with everyone on wanting as high a pick as possible but i like what Hornachek said after the game that maybe the teams that do keep playing hard and not tank will get some good karma when the ping pong balls come up. We won 2 out of our last 3 games last year and ended up with KP.

But we would of won the lottery and got Towns a far superior player

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:I suppose its ok to ask about the credentials of the guy who put together the video?
competition looked kind of weak and labeling a video before the play is very convincing.
Sure the kid looked good, but we'll know more when he comes in for tryouts with teams.
The Euro's don't get hyped until later in the process. More to choose from.

Not sure- they do work for draftexpress, which is the main draft website. Highlight vids always make them look good though- watch the video on 'weaknesses' and they suddenly look awful!

He's been pretty well scouted.

We all know that foreign players are scouted much better than in the past, and their level of ball has improved greatly over the years.

He's been on the radar for a good period of time, now. Same body as Fox, and like Fox, he has those long arms and quick feet.

I think Fox will be a much better shooter down the road than some think...I would be happy with either of those guys at this point. I really want a taller, all-around PG. Both Fox and Frank are also noted as team first type players...and I always go for that.

Last time we had a PG draft we ended up with f'n Jordan Hill...I want to come away with a quality PG this time.

I was actually shocked to see Fox's wingspan on DX listed between 6'4" and 6'6"... curious to see how accurate that 7'0" wingspan listed for Frank is.

But, yeah, agreed otherwise - I'd be thrilled to come away from this draft with either guy.

Wow...seemed much longer to me...looked like he had gumby arms at times...surprised at this.

Yeah, I agree, I was shocked, too. Fox's wingspan seemed a lot longer. Will be interesting to see if he goes to the combine... but a lot of the top lotto picks don't even bother with the combine anymore.

Keep in mind that wingspan is indicative of arm length but affected by the width of your frame/shoulders. If you're a string bean you can still have long arms even w an average wingspan. (Eg a broad shouldered person can have larger wingspan with same length arms as a string bean) On average your wingspan is very close to your height. The better stat for arm length is sleeve length or unsurprisingly arm length which takes into account the side of your hands