Knicks · Clarence Gaines needs to get Pat Riley on the phone (page 1)

Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

IMO KP and Willy have higher upside than any of those guys. This is a continual process so let's see what the next crop of young talent looks like.

Gaines just got promoted for finding two players overseas with the talent to be All-Stars, seems a bit hasty Briggs. We went decades with some of the worst draft picks in NBA history.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Knicks drafting at some point set a record for futility. These days scouting hasn't been the weak link in the chain. Pretty sure you know where the big mistakes have been made.

Briggs is on fire tonite! Bring it down!

what are you talking about , all we have is good role players. he might need to talk to rc buford/pop about serious player development but he can find nice talent.

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

They knew enough not to draft Justise Winslow in the lottery.

It all starts with a PG. Miami has a very competent PG and that is why they look better than us. I want to see a top tier PG with this roster before saying that other teams have a better collection of young players.

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

They knew enough not to draft Justise Winslow in the lottery.

The Heat got Winslow 10th overall, which is pretty near a steal. He's had injury woes, but they're very good at player development.

crzymdups wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

They knew enough not to draft Justise Winslow in the lottery.

The Heat got Winslow 10th overall, which is pretty near a steal. He's had injury woes, but they're very good at player development.

Way too early to call it steal, especially when you factor in the players taken after him. I'd say he's closer to a flop than a steal at this point, but it's only his second year.

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

It's really simple with Miami --- Riley insists that they are the best conditioned team in the league year in / year out.

His players are in ELITE condition and play better because of it --- Riley won't accept anything else.

I don't understand why every franchise wouldn't insist on their players being in ELITE condition -- the Knicks on the other hand have Melo.

NYKBocker wrote:It all starts with a PG. Miami has a very competent PG and that is why they look better than us. I want to see a top tier PG with this roster before saying that other teams have a better collection of young players.

The few times when Rose had a good passing game you could see how much better it made the team. It's clear that getting a talented 2 Way PG would really upgrade the team significantly.

Fox almost got his team to the Final Four. I was pretty impressed with his game during the Tournament.

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

It's really simple with Miami --- Riley insists that they are the best conditioned team in the league year in / year out.

His players are in ELITE condition and play better because of it --- Riley won't accept anything else.

I don't understand why every franchise wouldn't insist on their players being in ELITE condition -- the Knicks on the other hand have Melo.

Yeah but they have many players with size who can handle shoot and drive. They also hustle on D with a good C

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

It's really simple with Miami --- Riley insists that they are the best conditioned team in the league year in / year out.

His players are in ELITE condition and play better because of it --- Riley won't accept anything else.

I don't understand why every franchise wouldn't insist on their players being in ELITE condition -- the Knicks on the other hand have Melo.

this part is true but personally I think a ton of them are on the juice, Wade and Lebron while there. Hasan now

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Because he needs to learn how to evaluate secondary players from the master

Wait in Gaines/ Jackson 3 years we have none

It's really simple with Miami --- Riley insists that they are the best conditioned team in the league year in / year out.

His players are in ELITE condition and play better because of it --- Riley won't accept anything else.

I don't understand why every franchise wouldn't insist on their players being in ELITE condition -- the Knicks on the other hand have Melo.

Yeah but they have many players with size who can handle shoot and drive. They also hustle on D with a good C

this is true and there was a time when we had success finding diamonds in the rough too -- Stark, Mason etc.

Whiteside is the exception where Miami took a real outcast and he's turned into a force -- as opposed to merely real good player they got for free/cheap

having said that, you look around at the top teams and look how many rosters of players where they saw value that other teams missed

SAS: Kawhi (relatively speaking), Manu, Green, Parker
GS: Draymond
Grizzlies: Gasol
Clips: D. Jordan
Toronto; Lowry (who they would have traded)
Celts: Thomas and Crowder

Then you look at how many teams are perennially near the top of draft and still stink
Philly
Minny
Cavs (except for Lebron but think of their other disasters, Bennet, Waiters (at least then), even when they had Kyrie they were at bottom before Lebron came back)
Suns
Sacramento

This is perhaps the biggest reason I'm still optimistic on the Knicks. They are picking more players I love or at least like. But this will be a process before it finally gels with enough talent (and so far they're better at drafting than FAs). If you get a Lebron or Duncan or Shaq(transcendant) you're process//fortunes will turn around that much quicker but otherwise it takes a lot of players, and a system. Even MJ needed more pieces and a system

We need picks and patience (and GREAT scouts with judgment)

And why exactly would Gaines call Riley?

Did you dream this last night and decide to post about it?

Maybe Pat Riley needs to get Clarence Gaines on the phone on how to draft?

The Miami commentators were all over how good KP, Willy, Justin Holiday and the "no name" Knicks were.

KP/Willy are better than anything Miami has drafted since Wade in 2003.

Miami is extremely well coached. They have a great culture set up by Pat Riley. That is where I am jealous of them. But Clarence Gaines is the reason Phil drafted KP and Willy. The two players that the Miami Heat commentators were all over. I don't quite understand some of our fanbase. Even the things we do well, we get trashed for.

What picks have we had in the last 3 years? We've had ONE first rounder. Hit a homerun. After KP there was Hezonja, Mudiay, Winslow. If Gaines had told Phil to draft one of them, you'd kill them for it, and point to KP being a monster on another team. What about Willy? We didn't have a pick in 2016. So we took a chance on some undrafted rookies like Baker, who just started and had a big game for us, Kuzminskas who as a starter has had a ridiculous shooting percentage, Randle who has shown some talent and guys like that.

We've been able to add no names just like Miami has. This was evident last night.

Willy - 2nd round pick we drafted
Holiday - in/out of the league player who Phil really wanted from the Rose trade
Baker - Rookie undrafted combo guard player
O'Quinn - 2nd round pick from ORL we sign and traded for
Randle - Rookie undrafted point guard.
Kuzminskas - Rookie undrafted forward who has shown flashes as a scorer. Ridiculous numbers when starting.

So what is this that Gaines and Phil need to learn about getting role players or unknowns? We do that as good as any team in the league in the Phil era. Lance Thomas another get. Langston Galloway. I mean these guys were almost out of the league or struggling to make it and we developed them into players that have gotten backup contracts in the league and will stick. We're doing the same with Baker, Kuz, Holiday and Randle.

I mean where I'm jealous of Miami is their coaching in Spo, and the culture Pat has established there. That's where Phil can learn. Scouting unknowns and picking up players, Phil and Gaines do very well. The other thing Phil needs to learn from Pat, which vets to sign and invest in. Pat has made some big moves. He's signed all-stars in their peak in free agency. Phil's been really bad in free agency with regards to this. He either doesn't care to make the effort for a star in free agency or simply is incapable. Pat's been able to deliver many big names in their prime to Miami in his years there and has made a great coaching choice to take his principles and coaching style moving forward in Spo.

Yeah sorry OP, but you're post made no sense again. The Heat are not picking up better players than us. They do a good job like us, but this is one thing we are actually good at in the Phil/Gaines era.

Unless you all are still salty that we drafted KP over Winslow or Mudiay. Heat commenntators were saying Willy will make first team all-rookie. So two years in a row we have first team all rookies. Yet, Gaines need to learn how to scout from Miami? The same Miami that picked Beasley over Russell Westbrook and Kevin Love. Miami had a chance to take Westbrook in 2008 and instead chose Beasley. Somehow I don't think we'd be inlove with Beasley as much because even back then his lack of passing and shooting skills were obvious.

Another Pat Riley is a God thread. I will always be thankful that he got the Knicks into the finals. But he is still Pat the Rat for bailing out on the Knicks with a fax.

I believe that Phil has struck more gold than Pat in a shorter amount of time. Besides if they want advice look no further than us at U.K. I want the Knicks to draft Whiteside in the second round. From this point forward I'm going to tell you guys starting next year the Knicks will win more games than the heat.

The best part of the Phil regime has been Gaines and the staff finding talent. We have another crack at it this summer. The good news is we already have a nice talent base and hopefully can bring in more STUDS. Phil is aware of the need for athletic ability as demonstrated by taking a chance on guys like DWill but he also wants players that are smart. He can get players with both athletic talent and smarts.

Pat the rat has skills at attracting the biggest FAs

Chandler wrote:Pat the rat has skills at attracting the biggest FAs

That and he's made good choices as to who inherits his coaching style culture etc
Way ahead of Phil in these two areas

They have done a great job of stock piling athletic 2-way wing players.