http://nypost.com/2017/04/02/knicks-fans...A rant is always good to let off steam. Mr Willis offers little for a base of fans intimate with the season and its failings.
He suggests sitting KP the rest of the season in fear of him being injured.
That is crap. sitting a 21 year old becuase the games are not playoff interest?
My point is the game in Miami the other nite. They got beat in NY only to return and win the next game against the same team. A huge learning experience for a young core
to get beat, adjust, learn, and execute better against the same team. No meaning to playoff status and it drops the lottery odds but a great base line learning moment for a young team.
The future is uncertain, but one that will not include Melo for the long term. THats not a knock on him, its a look to the future where we are building a core of players and a core of culture.
Its an awful season. the only real loss we trading Grant as Rose is toast. Ropez was a nice servicable piece and gave us a good season and an opportunity to look at a former MVP returning form bad injury.
Good decision, bad outcome. Noah was part of a good decision to make playoffs while developing a some yoots. Noah is the right player, but a bust this year.
Fans can only dread the rest of his contract. Fans can also hope for better. Its ok, you are not that delicate to be dissapointed.
THis is not the worst season because the 23 win year when Isiah leveraged up the future for Eddy and Marbury ate years off our future.
I thought this team could make the playoffs while not leveraging a future if it was reasonably healthy. I was wrong. PHil was wrong.
Phil is to blame. Question is its done. We have cap space and a nice draft pick. Options to improve.
Nightmares exist when there is no way out.
Isaiah years were so much worse. This guy clearly doesn't have a clue about the Knicks history. While this season was great, it was far from a historically bad season.
I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved.
And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
it might be hyperbole to call this the worst season, but it's not that far off.
There were many here who thought we would make the playoffs. In fact, at one point, it looked like things might come together, and I would have to man up on my criticism of Phil's off season moves.
Disintegrated this season did, big time.
And when we talk young core, who exactly are we talking about? KP & Willy? that's not some huge group of young talent like maybe the Lakers or Minnesota.
We can commend Phil for not trading future first round picks, but he went in and tried to win this season, and his moves all crapped out. Unless you want to praise him for finding end of bench spot players like Kuz & Randle.
The brightest spot of this season is now lottery ping pong balls.
Who cares about a bad season if we have our pick at the end of it?- the years where we sucked AND had nothing to show for it were brutal.
meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
Good points. Yes, ROlo was more valuable but the intrigue was what Rose could have become again.
and what pleasant surprise did yield this year was Willy, whom made Rolo expendable. Might even say he makes Noah expendable!!
Knowing now what we didn't know then.......
Yes, what we did know was Noah and Rose were bad health risks due to history. Rose Only had missed 12 games this year up until the past few games. I'd even say his explosiveness had come back very nicely.
I was very disappointed how Noah kept breaking this year. That was not a good decision by PHil.
Lets not take everything for granted. What we did with WIlly was very good. If Willy starred in Europe it would have cost us a lot of money to bring him here. We also had to pay an unknown entity a decent amount to get him to come here. That was a decision. We played him. That was a decision. He was coached well. We actually developed a kid from the second round. we tend to forget how many things have to come together for that to happen. Many times fans think the talent is just there gushing until he is given an opportunity and when done, "We were holding him back"
is the fans response.
Ok, PHil did not anticipate Noah not playing but there was a talent in place to seize the opportunity. Knicks could have panic traded for a veteran and drove willy to the d league? Like thats never happend!!!
Worst season ever? Naw. It sucked, but from the ashes of disappointment was opportunity. what is god awful is when you go all in for a playoff run, don't make it, but having had traded a pick for an asset that did not get you there, AND NO PICK!!!!!
So if we had traded our NO. 1 for Noah, well thats kind of a disaster!
And to think Noah was our pick we used for Eddy!!!! That would have been just depressing!!! like getting shot with your own gun!!
Layden to me was a nightmare... we had no way out
EnySpree wrote:Layden to me was a nightmare... we had no way out
It would have been interesting to have seen Layden thru a full cycle. Knicks had been not trading picks or spending foolishly in the aftermath of Ewings departure and the residue from that.
Isiah turned those assets into a 119mm 23 win team whose payroll was some 48% higher than the next highest team!!!
I never blame Layden, a neophyte at the time Dyess was traded for. That was on Dolan.
I know its popular to kick scotty around, but this was Dolans choice and he was on a short lease. Don Chaney was a good coach and a good man.
The team should have been allowed to tank, draft, and had cap space coming and its picks.
meloshouldgo wrote:And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
+1
How do you have the worst season in history with one of the best young players on the planet?
I hated trading Rolo, too. If there could have been anyway to immediately upgrade the backcourt with what we thought we were going to get with a DRose coming back on the upside from injuries without losing half of one of the best defensive tandems in the front court we've ever seen, it would have been great.
Eddy Curry anyone? Jerome James?
Idiotic beeatching article displaying all the brilliance of don't pile on the rabbit.
meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
LOL....
That fact that Isaiah and Phil's name are in the same sentence is enough to make a change in the front office..
If you don't think phil as utterly embarrass this franchise, you must be related to him or support him no matter what he does..
meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
LOL....
That fact that Isaiah and Phil's name are in the same sentence is enough to make a change in the front office..
If you don't think phil as utterly embarrass this franchise, you must be related to him or support him no matter what he does..
Nalod wrote:EnySpree wrote:Layden to me was a nightmare... we had no way out
It would have been interesting to have seen Layden thru a full cycle. Knicks had been not trading picks or spending foolishly in the aftermath of Ewings departure and the residue from that.
Isiah turned those assets into a 119mm 23 win team whose payroll was some 48% higher than the next highest team!!!
I never blame Layden, a neophyte at the time Dyess was traded for. That was on Dolan.
I know its popular to kick scotty around, but this was Dolans choice and he was on a short lease. Don Chaney was a good coach and a good man.
The team should have been allowed to tank, draft, and had cap space coming and its picks.
Shandon Anderson, Eisley, Weatherspoon, maxed out Houston... can't down play what he did. We were capped out and we were drafting like we had no sense.
knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
LOL....
That fact that Isaiah and Phil's name are in the same sentence is enough to make a change in the front office..
If you don't think phil as utterly embarrass this franchise, you must be related to him or support him no matter what he does..
Sorry but this is possibly the BEST situation we've been in despite the losing!!! The timing is right for a rebuild and we have the tools to do it. No other Prez/GM has positioned this team to be able to truly build a young core of 1st rd talent. There are no guarantees but the chances of improvement are much better than at any time in the last 17 years.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
LOL....
That fact that Isaiah and Phil's name are in the same sentence is enough to make a change in the front office..
If you don't think phil as utterly embarrass this franchise, you must be related to him or support him no matter what he does..
Sorry but this is possibly the BEST situation we've been in despite the losing!!! The timing is right for a rebuild and we have the tools to do it. No other Prez/GM has positioned this team to be able to truly build a young core of 1st rd talent. There are no guarantees but the chances of improvement are much better than at any time in the last 17 years.
You said the same thing 3 yrs ago. If we draft a flop, and sign another wash up veteran (highly likely) then what?
I wouldn't be surprise if Phil resigns Rose to a max contract then say's he's retiring so he could rekindle his relationship with Buss..
knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
LOL....
That fact that Isaiah and Phil's name are in the same sentence is enough to make a change in the front office..
If you don't think phil as utterly embarrass this franchise, you must be related to him or support him no matter what he does..
Sorry but this is possibly the BEST situation we've been in despite the losing!!! The timing is right for a rebuild and we have the tools to do it. No other Prez/GM has positioned this team to be able to truly build a young core of 1st rd talent. There are no guarantees but the chances of improvement are much better than at any time in the last 17 years.
You said the same thing 3 yrs ago. If we draft a flop, and sign another wash up veteran (highly likely) then what?
I wouldn't be surprise if Phil resigns Rose to a max contract then say's he's retiring so he could rekindle his relationship with Buss..
Im sure you wouldn't be!!!
EnySpree wrote:Nalod wrote:EnySpree wrote:Layden to me was a nightmare... we had no way out
It would have been interesting to have seen Layden thru a full cycle. Knicks had been not trading picks or spending foolishly in the aftermath of Ewings departure and the residue from that.
Isiah turned those assets into a 119mm 23 win team whose payroll was some 48% higher than the next highest team!!!
I never blame Layden, a neophyte at the time Dyess was traded for. That was on Dolan.
I know its popular to kick scotty around, but this was Dolans choice and he was on a short lease. Don Chaney was a good coach and a good man.
The team should have been allowed to tank, draft, and had cap space coming and its picks.
Shandon Anderson, Eisley, Weatherspoon, maxed out Houston... can't down play what he did. We were capped out and we were drafting like we had no sense.
And you think neophyte Layden had the power to resign H20 to that contract based on a hand shake deal he had previously before he was GM?
Spoon actually was OK, Anderson and Eisley were bad deals for good role players who did not step up to their contracts.
Lots of blame for ewing departure, including Ewing.
http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/columns...
Layden's tenure was not good. I agree. There was a departure of sorts and the team was not panic trading so I was hopeful of a rebuild.
The keys were handed to Isiah.
Nalod wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I agree good decisions have bad outcomes - often. And people who judge the decision based on the outcome clearly don't get it. But trading RoLo was a bad decision, because Rose was less valuable than Rolo even at the start of the season. Having said that I think there are some positives in that Rose isn't going to cost us 15 years of cap space and was definitely worth experimenting with. The thing about risk talking is that you accept that there's a chance you lose something valuable. Because if you didn't there wouldn't be any risk involved. And yes it's in the past, time to move on. But people would rather sit around and bitch about it because that's who they are. Articles like this are just BS.
Good points. Yes, ROlo was more valuable but the intrigue was what Rose could have become again.
and what pleasant surprise did yield this year was Willy, whom made Rolo expendable. Might even say he makes Noah expendable!!
Knowing now what we didn't know then.......Yes, what we did know was Noah and Rose were bad health risks due to history. Rose Only had missed 12 games this year up until the past few games. I'd even say his explosiveness had come back very nicely.
I was very disappointed how Noah kept breaking this year. That was not a good decision by PHil.
Lets not take everything for granted. What we did with WIlly was very good. If Willy starred in Europe it would have cost us a lot of money to bring him here. We also had to pay an unknown entity a decent amount to get him to come here. That was a decision. We played him. That was a decision. He was coached well. We actually developed a kid from the second round. we tend to forget how many things have to come together for that to happen. Many times fans think the talent is just there gushing until he is given an opportunity and when done, "We were holding him back"
is the fans response.
Ok, PHil did not anticipate Noah not playing but there was a talent in place to seize the opportunity. Knicks could have panic traded for a veteran and drove willy to the d league? Like thats never happend!!!
Worst season ever? Naw. It sucked, but from the ashes of disappointment was opportunity. what is god awful is when you go all in for a playoff run, don't make it, but having had traded a pick for an asset that did not get you there, AND NO PICK!!!!!
So if we had traded our NO. 1 for Noah, well thats kind of a disaster!
And to think Noah was our pick we used for Eddy!!!! That would have been just depressing!!! like getting shot with your own gun!!
Phil has drafted two starters in three years with one first round pick
He has taken risks that didn't pay off [Rose for Rolo]
He has made two really bad decisions [NTC and Noah]
He has preserved Salary Cap [Rose expiring] and future Draft Picks 2017+
He has signed some decent vets as well [Lee and Rolo]
Those are the facts.
What do we get as a franchise out of this? We have the possibility of adding a lottery pick and putting together enough of a core to build around (3 quality starters that can play and grow together KP, Billy and whoever we pick). If someone told me we would be looking at that as a possibility in 3 years when he took over a 37 win team capped out to hell and with albatross contracts like Melo and Bargs, and a toxic situation with Tyson, JR and Shump who all wanted out in different degrees and a bunch of broken ass vets who couldn't play anymore(KMart, Artest, STAT and Fat Felton- I would have jumped with joy. Now realistically Billy is still not a 100% certainty as a starter but I think he will definitely get there, sooner rather than later.
All the BS about his tweets and articles about Melo and impacting Melo's trade value is just noise. Anyone who suggests that teams will be thinking about Phil's tweets when trading for Melo has taken leave of what little senses they had left. Unfortunately there seems to be a few of those around here.
In my view Melo is on Dolan, even the NTC. Signiture Dolan to agree on a handshake promise to give a Max offer to a player who opts out. This was to me what the deal was with H20, and Melo.
Its seems like the only concession Phil made when taking the job. Melo being a talent likely was sort of OK, not OK with Phil.
IM just guessing here only because Phil and Melo don't seem to get on very well.
Phil would like to trade Melo.
Just my take.
It has to end now.... its not on Phil. It's on Melo. If I was in charge I'd be hard with him. Either work with us to make a trade or sit on the bench. Melo isn't helping us starting and holding the ball. He'd have to come off the bench or sit in a suit. We're paying him so we owe him nothing. He wants to secure his place in history.... the Knicks lose nothing forcing him to sit. No team wants to trade with us. No free agents want to sign here. So fuck everyone. The Knicks are builsing through youth. We don't need anyone to do that.
Nalod wrote:In my view Melo is on Dolan, even the NTC. Signiture Dolan to agree on a handshake promise to give a Max offer to a player who opts out. This was to me what the deal was with H20, and Melo.Its seems like the only concession Phil made when taking the job. Melo being a talent likely was sort of OK, not OK with Phil.
IM just guessing here only because Phil and Melo don't seem to get on very well.
Phil would like to trade Melo.
Just my take.
Yup thats my take as well word for word, I have already said this a few times. But this is still conjecture, so unless I know definitively (which we will never know unless Dolan mans up) I still have to hild the NTC against Phil. It happened on his watch and he gave it to Melo.
meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod wrote:In my view Melo is on Dolan, even the NTC. Signiture Dolan to agree on a handshake promise to give a Max offer to a player who opts out. This was to me what the deal was with H20, and Melo.Its seems like the only concession Phil made when taking the job. Melo being a talent likely was sort of OK, not OK with Phil.
IM just guessing here only because Phil and Melo don't seem to get on very well.
Phil would like to trade Melo.
Just my take.
Yup thats my take as well word for word, I have already said this a few times. But this is still conjecture, so unless I know definitively (which we will never know unless Dolan mans up) I still have to hild the NTC against Phil. It happened on his watch and he gave it to Melo.
We will never know. H20 was given a top tier max contract and knicks were basically bidding against themselves at the time. Thats why I always thought it was part of original deal on a hand shake.
NTC could be similar, either Melo takes full money or some benefit like NTC. As for blame, See I'll blame phil on W/L record. As for contracts, to me the man who signs the check is the man responsible for the money.
At the end of the day Melo, even with his NTC was a better asset then nothing and letting him walk. Was the cap space to have used on another "Star"? In my mind Melo was paid to entertain the crowd while a rebuild happens. IF three years is too slow, well thats a whole other forum.
Demolition took longer!!LOL
