Knicks · That Knicks vs Pacers 2013 series (page 1)

The NYDaily news mentioned the moment that Hibbert blocked Melo as the series changing moment. But at the time I was adamant that it was a foul- in fact Hibbert was fouling all series long but because the nba was trying to manufacture a new star they suddenly and deliberately started calling the game differently with all that crap about 'verticality'. This was pretty much confirmed a year or two later when Silver took over and sent out a memo saying that refs were calling verticality wrongly, and Hibberts career never recovered. Watching the video again, I still think it was an offensive foul. What do people think now a few years have passed?:

It really screwed us that series. Granted we weren't in great shape anyway- Tyson had pulled his annual disappearing act due to catching a cold from his kids (for the second year running at exactly the same time, just before the playoffs) and Kidd was MIA. But I still think we would have won that series if it had been called properly.

We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

Had he pass the ball to a wide open Tyson chandler for a easy dunk, that would have been the play of the series

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

It was thought that the knicks should have put the Celtics away but got caught up with playing head games with them.
Knicks were up 3-0 in the series when Boston won two in a row.

The 2013 team that Phil broke up included:

Kmart 12 years
Kidd 18
Camby 16
Q 12
Kurt 17
Sheed 15
Pablo a 60 year old rookie!

Boston's last gasp with Pierce and Garnett and they got into Melo and JR's head.
Its comical to use "PHil destroyed a 54 win team".
It was a fun season! I thought being a two seed was a stretch and team was not a true contender, but it was fun!
It was uneven with streaks.....

Via Wikipedia:
The Knicks started off 6–0, their best start since the 1993–94 season.
The Knicks went 11–4 in November, the first time they won 11 games in a month since March 2000.
The Knicks went 12-6 in March, the first time they won 12 games in a month since March 1994.
The Knicks won 50 games for the first time since the 1999–00 season.
The Knicks won the Atlantic Division title for the first time since the 1993–94 season.
The Knicks had a 13-game winning streak from March 18 to April 9, the 3rd longest in franchise history, and the longest since the 1993–94 Knicks had a 15-game winning streak.

Melo was brilliant most of that season until the playoffs when Boston got in his head.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

The way I remember it, and I could be wrong, was that yes the rest of the team were playing like trash, but the series was still a lot closer than it should have been- felt the way they were not calling fouls on hibbert, was a big reason for Melo playing badly as he couldn't drive to the hoop as the foul was never called. Though I think some Celtic had tried to aggravate his shoulder injury that year too by pulling on it.

The Pacers were easily the better team. We were lucky we pushed it to a Game 6 mostly because they had some injuries. People forget we nearly blew a 3-0 series lead to a aging depleted boston team. I know a few gloat about getting 54 wins but once we got to the postseason we looked medicore

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

The way I remember it, and I could be wrong, was that yes the rest of the team were playing like trash, but the series was still a lot closer than it should have been- felt the way they were not calling fouls on hibbert, was a big reason for Melo playing badly as he couldn't drive to the hoop as the foul was never called. Though I think some Celtic had tried to aggravate his shoulder injury that year too by pulling on it.

maybe. I know everyone remembers Melo's last 2 games which were excellent as a rallying cry for how the guy has gotten no help over the years. I remember them all playing poorly and indeed Melo literally shot us out of series. 9-23, 6-16 and 10-28 in 3 losses. I can give him a pass for not passing as his teammates couldnt buy a shot either. How do you win a series where your star player has 3 shooting nights like that in the first 4 games of the series?

It was a memorable season. Clearly not sustainable with that front office.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

The way I remember it, and I could be wrong, was that yes the rest of the team were playing like trash, but the series was still a lot closer than it should have been- felt the way they were not calling fouls on hibbert, was a big reason for Melo playing badly as he couldn't drive to the hoop as the foul was never called. Though I think some Celtic had tried to aggravate his shoulder injury that year too by pulling on it.

maybe. I know everyone remembers Melo's last 2 games which were excellent as a rallying cry for how the guy has gotten no help over the years. I remember them all playing poorly and indeed Melo literally shot us out of series. 9-23, 6-16 and 10-28 in 3 losses. I can give him a pass for not passing as his teammates couldnt buy a shot either. How do you win a series where your star player has 3 shooting nights like that in the first 4 games of the series?

It was a memorable season. Clearly not sustainable with that front office.

It was an enjoyable season, but such a bitterly disappointing playoffs. And that team only had a one year shelf life to make things worse.

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

The way I remember it, and I could be wrong, was that yes the rest of the team were playing like trash, but the series was still a lot closer than it should have been- felt the way they were not calling fouls on hibbert, was a big reason for Melo playing badly as he couldn't drive to the hoop as the foul was never called. Though I think some Celtic had tried to aggravate his shoulder injury that year too by pulling on it.

maybe. I know everyone remembers Melo's last 2 games which were excellent as a rallying cry for how the guy has gotten no help over the years. I remember them all playing poorly and indeed Melo literally shot us out of series. 9-23, 6-16 and 10-28 in 3 losses. I can give him a pass for not passing as his teammates couldnt buy a shot either. How do you win a series where your star player has 3 shooting nights like that in the first 4 games of the series?

It was a memorable season. Clearly not sustainable with that front office.

It was an enjoyable season, but such a bitterly disappointing playoffs. And that team only had a one year shelf life to make things worse.

exactly. Pretty much everything went right in the regular season. Kidd has a good first half jr smith had his best season. But it was only a 1 year thing

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

Tyson was ridiculously awful in that series. I don't remember JR doing much after his incident with the Celtics.

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:We were not winning that series. Nobody played well enough to win. JR was terrible. Kidd gave nothing. Felton was average. Tyson wasn’t as bad as advertised but vanished late for sure. As for the block on Melo meh… We were down 3-1. In the 3 losses Melo shot 25-67 (good for 37%). Melo had 8 assists and 5 steals to go with 15 turnovers and 29 personal fouls in those 3 losses.

On paper the Knicks should have been able to hang. Once the games started we simply got outplayed. That series didn’t come down to reffing. Paul George was the best player on both ends and we threw up brick after brick.

I can't remember JR at all in that series- was that the year he got suspended for pushing (though I think the player also flopped) or something, then came back and played like complete trash for the rest of the playoffs?

rings a vague bell. I just remember JR bricking every shot. JR was terrible. Melo had games that gave us no chance to win. Supporting cast sucked... its why I was a bit puzzled by your post. I dont think the series was ever close and Knick players did nothing that told me they should have won. Just my 2c

The way I remember it, and I could be wrong, was that yes the rest of the team were playing like trash, but the series was still a lot closer than it should have been- felt the way they were not calling fouls on hibbert, was a big reason for Melo playing badly as he couldn't drive to the hoop as the foul was never called. Though I think some Celtic had tried to aggravate his shoulder injury that year too by pulling on it.

maybe. I know everyone remembers Melo's last 2 games which were excellent as a rallying cry for how the guy has gotten no help over the years. I remember them all playing poorly and indeed Melo literally shot us out of series. 9-23, 6-16 and 10-28 in 3 losses. I can give him a pass for not passing as his teammates couldnt buy a shot either. How do you win a series where your star player has 3 shooting nights like that in the first 4 games of the series?

It was a memorable season. Clearly not sustainable with that front office.

Can you please post what Melo shot again? Its only been a dozen times. Ahhhh, the Fishmike fluff machine. Thought you don't like to talk about the 54 season? Is that because that's the only time we let Melo have the team? But okay, lets just Leave out that Melo had an MVP year. Leave out that in game 1 he had a double/double with 11 rebounds. Leave out thay he kept us close in 4th and not for missed wide open 3's off hiss pass outs, we may have won the game. Leavr out that he held George to 5 of 14 shooting. But yeah he went 10 for 28. Lets also leave out game 2. Near double/double shot 50%. Now Game 3. Your right he shot 6 for 16. Leave out how they doubled him all game(reason for 16 shots) Leave out he passed very well to Shump, Felton, Smith, Pablo. Who combined for 8 for 33 shooting. Your right about game 4 though. He shot 9 for 23 with 9 boards. He shot us out of the game. Unless you also count Shump and Smith shooting 7 for 28. But i am sure we would have won if only Melo would have shot 80%. And who showed up for the pressure filled, do or die, season ending, game 6? You leave out a lot. Makes me think you did not watch the series. Or your just leaving out facts to suit your agenda?

That block on Melo was the peak of Hibbert's career. Probably didnt know that when he showed off the framed picture of the block to ESPN shortly afterward. Probably looks at that moment differently now.

The refs allowed a very physical series which highly favored the Pavers.

GustavBahler wrote:That block on Melo was the peak of Hibbert's career. Probably didnt know that when he showed off the framed picture of the block to ESPN shortly afterward. Probably looks at that moment differently now.

It was also the end of Melo's career.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:That block on Melo was the peak of Hibbert's career. Probably didnt know that when he showed off the framed picture of the block to ESPN shortly afterward. Probably looks at that moment differently now.

It was also the end of Melo's career.

End? No. Peak, maybe. Melo won the scoring title that year.

Tough series for me..Still not over it..That Hibbert body contact fouls that never got called when Melo drove changed the series...Melo was doubled the entire series..Pacers switched assignment on Melo between George, West and Stevenson with Hibbert as the weakside help...JR tore his meniscus during the Boston series.., Felton disappeared after the Boston series..Hibbert manhandled Chandler...Shump had flashes, I really thought he would build on that series...I thought we would retool..Oh well..

GustavBahler wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:That block on Melo was the peak of Hibbert's career. Probably didnt know that when he showed off the framed picture of the block to ESPN shortly afterward. Probably looks at that moment differently now.

It was also the end of Melo's career.

End? No. Peak, maybe. Melo won the scoring title that year.

he was third in mvp voting as well. I think he would have won it if D12 didn't almost end his career. He couldn't miss prior to that.

That's series came down to size. Their bigs were allowed to maul us in the paint at will on both ends of the court and the refs didn't do us any favors on either side.

That's series came down to size. Their bigs were allowed to maul us in the paint at will on both ends of the court and the refs didn't do us any favors on either side.