this is one of the worse signings in franchise history..
Phil is shooting like 20% from the field, his moves have been really really suspect to say the least, a couple of draft picks and three 50 loss seasons...Im sure anyone on this board can do better
franco12 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:The only viable alternative was to sign Dwight Howard. And if there was not enough drama for the Knicks this season, also having Dwight in the mix would have made it thermonuclear.And keeping Lopez would have most likely meant trying to develop Jerian Grant as our PG of the future. At most with Deron Williams as a stopgap signing. The only other viable PG option on the market was Jeremy Lin, but I am not sure he+Melo would have worked well either.
No, the viable alternative was to stick with Lopez & Calderon- we'd still have added Baker and Randle - and won just as many, maybe more games.
And it's not like we would have been stuck with Grant -sorry,
Calderon as our starting PG got us a record good enough for the #9 pick in last year's draft. Is this what you would have rather had this season?
And please remind me, how did this season go for Jose? Which NBA team is he playing for? And how many minutes?
ESOMKnicks wrote:franco12 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:The only viable alternative was to sign Dwight Howard. And if there was not enough drama for the Knicks this season, also having Dwight in the mix would have made it thermonuclear.And keeping Lopez would have most likely meant trying to develop Jerian Grant as our PG of the future. At most with Deron Williams as a stopgap signing. The only other viable PG option on the market was Jeremy Lin, but I am not sure he+Melo would have worked well either.
No, the viable alternative was to stick with Lopez & Calderon- we'd still have added Baker and Randle - and won just as many, maybe more games.
And it's not like we would have been stuck with Grant -sorry,
Calderon as our starting PG got us a record good enough for the #9 pick in last year's draft. Is this what you would have rather had this season?
And please remind me, how did this season go for Jose? Which NBA team is he playing for? And how many minutes?
Lopez> Noah on a cheaper deal, hasnt missed a game.
But Rose was more than Jose. Similar liability on defense, but could at least score a bunch
90sKnicks wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I still think it's too early to say Phil messed up. Yes, we gave pup Lopez but our frontcourt is still crowded with KOQ, Porzingis, and Hernagomez. Don't forget we also got Justin Holiday in that trade, who at the time i thought was a throw-in, but who might be the most valuable piece in the trade for either side.
He is a free agent this summer. It can't be considered a dub unless he resigns here for cheap, which in doubt he will.
I'm not saying Phil has messed up his tenure here, but this move was terrible. Tried so hard to get rid of Calderon just to add Noah. I don't think there is anyway you spin this move as a success unless Noah comes back banging next season. We will see.
fishmike wrote:really too bad. Would have been nice to have a healthy Noah/Willy/KP/KOQ to start the season. I wonder if that means they are less hesitant to trade KOQ.
Perhaps that may be a good thing. O Quinn brings great passing and grit to this offense, something that may be hard to replace.
franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I don't know that you can put Lance and Lee in the win column.
Lance and Lee are getting paid $17m between them. Lee didn't look great early in the season and Lance has been hurt and only played 46 games and averaged 6 points for us. And he is 28- peak typically for an athlete.
Have you seen what guys like Bazemore and Carroll get paid?
TPercy wrote:90sKnicks wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I still think it's too early to say Phil messed up. Yes, we gave pup Lopez but our frontcourt is still crowded with KOQ, Porzingis, and Hernagomez. Don't forget we also got Justin Holiday in that trade, who at the time i thought was a throw-in, but who might be the most valuable piece in the trade for either side.
He is a free agent this summer. It can't be considered a dub unless he resigns here for cheap, which in doubt he will.
I'm not saying Phil has messed up his tenure here, but this move was terrible. Tried so hard to get rid of Calderon just to add Noah. I don't think there is anyway you spin this move as a success unless Noah comes back banging next season. We will see.
traded Tyson expiring contract and added calderon's longer contract. calderon would have been expiring this yr, but traded it for and added 10 more million with less productivity and this is the president people are praising that is so much better than I. Thomas. There both inept
TPercy wrote:franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I don't know that you can put Lance and Lee in the win column.
Lance and Lee are getting paid $17m between them. Lee didn't look great early in the season and Lance has been hurt and only played 46 games and averaged 6 points for us. And he is 28- peak typically for an athlete.
Have you seen what guys like Bazemore and Carroll get paid?
there going to the playoffs
fishmike wrote:huge news. Phil haters rejoice. This day is yours.
The wild thing about Phil Lovers is they think that people who don't think Phil has done a good job are happy about any of this. Phil really has driven you guys insane.
knicks1248 wrote:TPercy wrote:90sKnicks wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I still think it's too early to say Phil messed up. Yes, we gave pup Lopez but our frontcourt is still crowded with KOQ, Porzingis, and Hernagomez. Don't forget we also got Justin Holiday in that trade, who at the time i thought was a throw-in, but who might be the most valuable piece in the trade for either side.
He is a free agent this summer. It can't be considered a dub unless he resigns here for cheap, which in doubt he will.
I'm not saying Phil has messed up his tenure here, but this move was terrible. Tried so hard to get rid of Calderon just to add Noah. I don't think there is anyway you spin this move as a success unless Noah comes back banging next season. We will see.
traded Tyson expiring contract and added calderon's longer contract. calderon would have been expiring this yr, but traded it for and added 10 more million with less productivity and this is the president people are praising that is so much better than I. Thomas. There both inept
Isiah Thomas makes Phil look like a rookie. Maybe this was Dolan's plan....If Phil sucks, he has leverage to bring back his boy Isiah.
Seriously, I'm bias against Phil, so it's really not fair for me to judge his performance. But damn, I'm stuck between getting rid of Phil and staying the course. I'm also tired of the knicks GM and Coaching turnover rate.
This is turning into a bad nightmare. Phil is currently walking on eggshells!
knicks1248 wrote:this is one of the worse signings in franchise history..
Phil is shooting like 20% from the field, his moves have been really really suspect to say the least, a couple of draft picks and three 50 loss seasons...Im sure anyone on this board can do better
And the winner of the hyperbole award goes to....
Honestly, you can think Noah is horrible signing ( I might disagree) but the Knicks have a long "distinguished" history of bad signings
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:huge news. Phil haters rejoice. This day is yours.
The wild thing about Phil Lovers is they think that people who don't think Phil has done a good job are happy about any of this. Phil really has driven you guys insane.
Seriously?!? there are like a dozen posts here blaming Phil for the signing as if he had the crystal ball to see this injury. There is rejoicing among the Phil hater crowd.
Chandler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:this is one of the worse signings in franchise history..
Phil is shooting like 20% from the field, his moves have been really really suspect to say the least, a couple of draft picks and three 50 loss seasons...Im sure anyone on this board can do better
And the winner of the hyperbole award goes to....
Honestly, you can think Noah is horrible signing ( I might disagree) but the Knicks have a long "distinguished" history of bad signings
Notice I said one of the worse, the list is endless
Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:huge news. Phil haters rejoice. This day is yours.
The wild thing about Phil Lovers is they think that people who don't think Phil has done a good job are happy about any of this. Phil really has driven you guys insane.
Seriously?!? there are like a dozen posts here blaming Phil for the signing as if he had the crystal ball to see this injury. There is rejoicing among the Phil hater crowd.
you mean like the Bulls did
ESOMKnicks wrote:franco12 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:The only viable alternative was to sign Dwight Howard. And if there was not enough drama for the Knicks this season, also having Dwight in the mix would have made it thermonuclear.And keeping Lopez would have most likely meant trying to develop Jerian Grant as our PG of the future. At most with Deron Williams as a stopgap signing. The only other viable PG option on the market was Jeremy Lin, but I am not sure he+Melo would have worked well either.
No, the viable alternative was to stick with Lopez & Calderon- we'd still have added Baker and Randle - and won just as many, maybe more games.
And it's not like we would have been stuck with Grant -sorry,
Calderon as our starting PG got us a record good enough for the #9 pick in last year's draft. Is this what you would have rather had this season?
And please remind me, how did this season go for Jose? Which NBA team is he playing for? And how many minutes?
Yes- because at least calderon was cerebral and understood how to run an offense- probably a far better fit in the triangle than Rose.
And Rose got us what, exactly? 30 wins, a nice scoring average and another season ending knee surgery.
TPercy wrote:franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I don't know that you can put Lance and Lee in the win column.
Lance and Lee are getting paid $17m between them. Lee didn't look great early in the season and Lance has been hurt and only played 46 games and averaged 6 points for us. And he is 28- peak typically for an athlete.
Have you seen what guys like Bazemore and Carroll get paid?
We won 30 games. Lee is 31. Lance is 28 and has yet to play an entire season injury free.
A couple of undrafted rookies could have done as well.
franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I don't know that you can put Lance and Lee in the win column.
Lance and Lee are getting paid $17m between them. Lee didn't look great early in the season and Lance has been hurt and only played 46 games and averaged 6 points for us. And he is 28- peak typically for an athlete.
Have you seen what guys like Bazemore and Carroll get paid?
We won 30 games. Lee is 31. Lance is 28 and has yet to play an entire season injury free.
A couple of undrafted rookies could have done as well.
how about 5 rookies to start and a 6th to finish?
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:Phil messed up here. Bad. Got rid of Robin Lopez at what cost? Phil Jackson needs to have a good free agency and draft this summer. So far the only good moves that Phil has to his name is KOQ, Lee, Lance and the 2015 draft. And that's me being generous. Phil has been an upgrade over past GMs, but he can do a lot better than this.
I don't know that you can put Lance and Lee in the win column.
Lance and Lee are getting paid $17m between them. Lee didn't look great early in the season and Lance has been hurt and only played 46 games and averaged 6 points for us. And he is 28- peak typically for an athlete.
Have you seen what guys like Bazemore and Carroll get paid?
We won 30 games. Lee is 31. Lance is 28 and has yet to play an entire season injury free.
A couple of undrafted rookies could have done as well.
how about 5 rookies to start and a 6th to finish?
Certain posters will read this and say "Once again fish says Phil can do no wrong." However I am simply agreeing with you and saying it actually did happen.
Since asshole Dolan (yes let's call him an asshole instead of the fan who rightfully called him out)
started his ownership of the team (2000) the medical staff has been the absolute worst!
Started with McDysess and continuing to Noah. When the person at the top is incompetent in hiring & implementing a toxic culture then there's a high likelyhood people below him will be incompetent & toxic as well.
franco12 wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:franco12 wrote:
No, the viable alternative was to stick with Lopez & Calderon- we'd still have added Baker and Randle - and won just as many, maybe more games.And it's not like we would have been stuck with Grant -sorry,
Calderon as our starting PG got us a record good enough for the #9 pick in last year's draft. Is this what you would have rather had this season?
And please remind me, how did this season go for Jose? Which NBA team is he playing for? And how many minutes?
Yes- because at least calderon was cerebral and understood how to run an offense- probably a far better fit in the triangle than Rose.
And Rose got us what, exactly? 30 wins, a nice scoring average and another season ending knee surgery.
Calderon was a lot worse than Rose. And Noah was not that much worse than Lopez.
I did not like the swap of Lopez for Rose with the signing of Noah either. But that was because I thought we should not be giving up on Grant. But, as it turned out, Grant has so far been a bust, and Jose proved useless on TWO teams and is now keeping the end of the bench warm for a third. And I don't see anything useful we could do this coming offseason if we had extra money under the cap by keeping Lopez as opposed to signing Noah.
The whole transaction proved to be a wash vs standing pat, except we took a gamble that adding a former league MVP and DPOY would have made us a superteam this season, a gamble that has not worked out, but not set us back either.
Trading Chandler for Calderon was a move I still do not understand, except that maybe Chandler was such a team cancer that he had to be shipped out at all costs.
