Knicks · TWolves stocked with Yoot!! (page 2)

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

Some were calling for knicks to hire some SAS exec........the fact that they would have Vetted him gives any SAS guy instant cred!
We have moved on from Layden as he has from us.
Point was Layden is like the worst human ever to be an suit here but some would rather him over phil.
Nalod says look at the assets and what they have to work with before they come in.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

This particular thread was what makes the Wolves better than us. The answer is KAT. I see you are comfortable making allowances for KP and Willy to improve on defense, but not young players on other teams?

Really, man, I'm tired of arguing this with you. You're right. Towns sucks. The Knicks are the best. KP is the best young player in the league. Everything Phil is doing is right on schedule. Once Melo waives the no trade clause he gave himself we should be right as rain. Ron Baker shall lead us to the promised land. Thank god Phil didn't trade for Rubio. Sure is great to be a Knicks fan.

Knixkik wrote:Wolves don't have as much as people think. Towns is going to be great, but despite crazy numbers, he doesn't have a star impact on the game yet. Will he ever be a good defensive player? That is the main question. Wiggins is a volume scorer, so is LaVine, and after that there's nothing (i don't see Rubio as a part of their future.) They really need a true impact player in the draft as much as we do. Each year people will keep waiting for them to take that next step. The names are greater than the impact they have on the game, as of right now.

Agreed. They have only one guy that I think is worth being excited about.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

I'm not exactly sure on the method used there. Are you looking at 82games? It's never been clear to me how they calculate that data. The player tracking data on nba.com has cameras actually following players and recording what happens. Towns' man is shooting 47.5% this season according to the tracking data. That's about average.

I think 82games is based on height - they assume the tallest player on each team are the centers and are guarding each other, 2nd tallest are the PFs, etc. If that is the case, it's obviously not as good as having cameras follow the players.

Is this a Phil centrist thread?

Knixkik wrote:Wolves don't have as much as people think. Towns is going to be great, but despite crazy numbers, he doesn't have a star impact on the game yet. Will he ever be a good defensive player? That is the main question. Wiggins is a volume scorer, so is LaVine, and after that there's nothing (i don't see Rubio as a part of their future.) They really need a true impact player in the draft as much as we do. Each year people will keep waiting for them to take that next step. The names are greater than the impact they have on the game, as of right now.

I'm in this boat. Lots of highlights coupled with losses

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

Ouch!!

I love KAT but that it is a pretty amazing and revealing stat. I think it's coupled with Wiggins and Lavine's too cool for school -- and definitely too cool to do the dirty work on defense

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

Ouch!!

I love KAT but that it is a pretty amazing and revealing stat. I think it's coupled with Wiggins and Lavine's too cool for school -- and definitely too cool to do the dirty work on defense

I don't think it's right though. See my comment above.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Wolves don't have as much as people think. Towns is going to be great, but despite crazy numbers, he doesn't have a star impact on the game yet. Will he ever be a good defensive player? That is the main question. Wiggins is a volume scorer, so is LaVine, and after that there's nothing (i don't see Rubio as a part of their future.) They really need a true impact player in the draft as much as we do. Each year people will keep waiting for them to take that next step. The names are greater than the impact they have on the game, as of right now.

Agreed. They have only one guy that I think is worth being excited about.

I think Lavine was progressing nicely before his injury. He looked like he was becoming a very good piece to the puzzle. Also, Lavine is not that much of a volume scorer and even still he was an efficient scorer this year unlike Wiggins.

CrushAlot wrote:Is this a Phil centrist thread?

Could be.
Depends on what side the isle your on.
Half full, half empty.
About 50-50
Could take it or leave it.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

This particular thread was what makes the Wolves better than us. The answer is KAT. I see you are comfortable making allowances for KP and Willy to improve on defense, but not young players on other teams?

Really, man, I'm tired of arguing this with you. You're right. Towns sucks. The Knicks are the best. KP is the best young player in the league. Everything Phil is doing is right on schedule. Once Melo waives the no trade clause he gave himself we should be right as rain. Ron Baker shall lead us to the promised land. Thank god Phil didn't trade for Rubio. Sure is great to be a Knicks fan.

Towns sucks? Im sorry can you point out where I mentioned that? See how you take 12% of a statement, fill in the gaps than answer your own statement pretending its mine?

I have said KP is a top 5 NBA prospect, and BEHIND Towns. The point of my post is that the team YOUR SAVIOR is running is having same kinds of problems the Knicks are. However there Thibs is actually coaching and he took over an incredible talent base and is still struggling. You have tunnel vision right now and cant accept anything but Phil is a POS. Enjoy that. Looking forward to another good draft. And hey... maybe Phil is only here 5 years for his contract and leaves with 5 losing seasons and the next guy is fantastic. You can even tell yourself the reason we have all this talent is in spite of Phil if it makes you feel better. I dont really care. Obsess about Noah. Go youtube the 54 win season. Tell me what a travisty it is we didnt build around Melo. Its a yawn at this point man. I write "he's done some good" you hear "exec of the year"

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Karl Anthony Towns is averaging 28.4ppg 14reb .593fg% .418 3pt% since the all-star break.

And of course, the T'Wolves actually have a better record than the Knicks, yet people here are crowing that the Knicks are better.

Anyone willing to bet money the Knicks will have more wins than the T'Wolves next year? Anyone? Bueller?

Yup.. and as great as he's been KAT may have the worst opposing EFG% I have ever seen. Ever. Opponents AVERAGE .620 EFG. I mean thats really amazing. Literally everyone who plays center vs. Minn is as efficient as Shaq. Nightly. Its Phil's fault the Knicks defense sucks, he undermines coaches, forces Rambis, etc... but the guy who's jock you were riding the hardest had a roster full of elite NBA prospects and produced one of the worst defensive teams ever. Hard to fathom without Phil there to undermine him

I see you have switches flavors from "everything Phil does sucks" to "everyone is better than us"

sigh

This particular thread was what makes the Wolves better than us. The answer is KAT. I see you are comfortable making allowances for KP and Willy to improve on defense, but not young players on other teams?

Really, man, I'm tired of arguing this with you. You're right. Towns sucks. The Knicks are the best. KP is the best young player in the league. Everything Phil is doing is right on schedule. Once Melo waives the no trade clause he gave himself we should be right as rain. Ron Baker shall lead us to the promised land. Thank god Phil didn't trade for Rubio. Sure is great to be a Knicks fan.

I mentioned something about Minny's D earlier...so I expect fishmike's observation might give us one reason for the team's defensive deficiencies (As a team they have the second worst defensive efg%...only below the Lakers)...the lack of defensive ability on a team that had a pretty decent athlete at every position for most of the season is pretty surprising. If Thibbs, I would be concerned that they did not come together as a defensive unit by the end of the year.

holfresh mentioned that the on the OKC/Min broadcast there was discussion about their inability to work as a unit on D. Almost everyone seems to evaluate players in terms of what they can do on O...

Surprised that Towns' numbers on D are this poor, though when you watch him you see that he has slow feet. It was one of the reasons I always laughed when folks talked about him possibly being able to play at the PF position. He was always a 5. He clearly has his offensive moves worked out-he should be unstoppable at some point, but it is hard to know how you are going to have to move on D at any moment, so his lack of foot speed must be an issue for him as a defender.

Not making any comparisons of this or that player on the Knicks and T-Wolves...just wondering about why a team with so many young stars seems to have so many issues on the defensive end of the court.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Wolves don't have as much as people think. Towns is going to be great, but despite crazy numbers, he doesn't have a star impact on the game yet. Will he ever be a good defensive player? That is the main question. Wiggins is a volume scorer, so is LaVine, and after that there's nothing (i don't see Rubio as a part of their future.) They really need a true impact player in the draft as much as we do. Each year people will keep waiting for them to take that next step. The names are greater than the impact they have on the game, as of right now.

Agreed. They have only one guy that I think is worth being excited about.

I think Lavine was progressing nicely before his injury. He looked like he was becoming a very good piece to the puzzle. Also, Lavine is not that much of a volume scorer and even still he was an efficient scorer this year unlike Wiggins.

So if it came down to giving up Lavine or Wiggins you would give up Wiggins?

CrushAlot wrote:Is this a Phil centrist thread?

Pretty much..Nalod is one the biggest phil apologists here. He's comparing a Layden to phil which is idiotic when you consider phil has been here 3 yrs vs Laydens 1.

WaltLongmire wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Wolves don't have as much as people think. Towns is going to be great, but despite crazy numbers, he doesn't have a star impact on the game yet. Will he ever be a good defensive player? That is the main question. Wiggins is a volume scorer, so is LaVine, and after that there's nothing (i don't see Rubio as a part of their future.) They really need a true impact player in the draft as much as we do. Each year people will keep waiting for them to take that next step. The names are greater than the impact they have on the game, as of right now.

Agreed. They have only one guy that I think is worth being excited about.

I think Lavine was progressing nicely before his injury. He looked like he was becoming a very good piece to the puzzle. Also, Lavine is not that much of a volume scorer and even still he was an efficient scorer this year unlike Wiggins.

So if it came down to giving up Lavine or Wiggins you would give up Wiggins?

Why would you give up on any of them so soon??..They are 22 and putting decent numbers given their experience...One of these guys having a breakout season, a couple of defensive pieces can turn the franchise around and look to compete with the GS of the world...

Silly thread. Why would a team who's starting 5, has an average age of 23 and their go to player who is 21, have a better season than the team who's starting 5 has an average age of 28, and 4 of the 5 starters have legit playoff experience?

Why are we comparing these random teams? The Layden and Thibbs connection?

The T-Wolves young core has more potential than ours. Hopefully, we luck out and get a good prospect this year, but the comparisons between these two teams dont make any sense.

Nalod wrote:Some were calling for knicks to hire some SAS exec........the fact that they would have Vetted him gives any SAS guy instant cred!
We have moved on from Layden as he has from us.
Point was Layden is like the worst human ever to be an suit here but some would rather him over phil.
Nalod says look at the assets and what they have to work with before they come in.

i think that some said Marks was a good hire. I think the assistant gm for the rockets is considered an up and comer. you
This not a Phil centrist thread!!!!😄

Someone said Nets were smart and knicks should hire an up an comer. I laughed when I realized Layden came from SAS and the irony was not lost on my.
A phil apologist? Ok. Gee, when you have Phil vs. some abstract mystical concept there is no argument, the unseen is always a faith based win and connecting the dots is easy. Skeptics are usually seen as "Wise" where optimists are considered fools.
Im a realist, and I look back on history and see that change is not always improvement, and knicks lack patience.
So I preach patience.

Label that what ever you want. Twolves are stocked with Yoot, with Thibs, and Spurs former assistant GM. Their record is the same as ours, yet because they are in Year 1 of a change, they get a pass. Year on in Phils world, he had to do a tear down.

Silly thread. Perhaps.

Nalod wrote:Twolves are one year into the new era. New coach and New GM. They have perhaps too many young guns? They do have Thibs, and what,
Isn't what many of you want? That young Spurs guy? Like hiring the best no. 2 guy from the best company? In one year they lost Sean Marks to the Nets as well!! Too bad we didn't hire this guy before the Wolves did!!!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2017.html

Here's a question to ask people, besides your foray into how many logical fallacies you can stack into one post -

"If you could TRADE EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE KNICKS for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TIMBERWOLVES, right now, would you do it?"

That there, all alone, answers every single issue and question you have about comparing the Knicks current roster and the Timberwolves current roster.

If you could trade for Glen Taylor right now in exchange for getting rid of James Dolan, would you do it?

If you could trade for Tom Thibodeau right now in exchange for getting rid of Hornacek, would you do it?

If you could trade for Scotty Layden right now in exchange for getting rid of Phil Jackson, would you do it?

You want to criticize the TWolves, but I bet, to a man, just about everyone here, and most NBA analysts and pundits, would trade the Knicks entire roster for the TWolves entire roster, in a heartbeat.

You really want to compare a team with three 21 year old players, two were first overall picks in their drafts, still operating under their cost controlled status, with positional value at the pivot and wing, to the Knicks situation?

I know you didn't ask me but . . . Yeah, I'd trade any or all of the Knicks for any or all of the T-Wolves. We aren't in the same kind of pit we've been in in years past--we have cap room, yay!, and a pick or two--but the T-Wolves have a few promising players and we have Porzingis. I like Wiggins, Towns, and Lavine but I'd argue that Thibs is the Wolves most valuable asset, even if they've all had a somewhat disappointing year.