Knicks · What would it mean to you if Phil re-signed Rose? (page 2)

nixluva wrote:Rose is just a SG at this point. Not a bad thing to have a scorer on the roster.

You forgot to say: off the bench.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

Rose ain't coming back for peanuts. Its going to take some serious change for him to forget that he doesn't like playing the Triangle. 2 years, means 2 more years of Rose looking off KP.

Does this imply you think Rose will get a substantial deal elsewhere?

This made very plain where Rose was in terms of health, fitness, and readiness after 4 years of injuries. Also showed where he was on both offense and defense.

Can only count on him for 60+ games.

Can be explosive to basket.

Not a 3pt threat.

Not a defender.

Not a facilitator.

Good midrange, undersized SG.

Which teams will pay for that?

If he can pass a physical, and a tryout, Rose could be a very effective 6th man. For all the deficiencies in his game you pointed out. Having someone with Rose's ability to get to the rim, unclog lanes, change the tide on a contender could get him a nice payday.That is considering what some of Lebrons teammates have received.

Sounds like somone you would want on the Knicks, but Im guessing he would not be used that way in NY. As for his value, my concern is that Phil will be as generous to Rose as he was to Noah, if not more. Legitimate concern IMO.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

Rose ain't coming back for peanuts. Its going to take some serious change for him to forget that he doesn't like playing the Triangle. 2 years, means 2 more years of Rose looking off KP.

Does this imply you think Rose will get a substantial deal elsewhere?

This made very plain where Rose was in terms of health, fitness, and readiness after 4 years of injuries. Also showed where he was on both offense and defense.

Can only count on him for 60+ games.

Can be explosive to basket.

Not a 3pt threat.

Not a defender.

Not a facilitator.

Good midrange, undersized SG.

Which teams will pay for that?

If he can pass a physical, and a tryout, Rose could be a very effective 6th man. For all the deficiencies in his game you pointed out. Having someone with Rose's ability to get to the rim, unclog lanes, change the tide on a contender could get him a nice payday.That is considering what some of Lebrons teammates have received.

Sounds like somone you would want on the Knicks, but Im guessing he would not be used that way in NY. As for his value, my concern is that Phil will be as generous to Rose as he was to Noah, if not more. Legitimate concern IMO.

Do any of the contending teams have ANY capspace to sign Rose?

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:Rose is just a SG at this point. Not a bad thing to have a scorer on the roster.

You forgot to say: off the bench.

You notice I didn't say starter!

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

Rose ain't coming back for peanuts. Its going to take some serious change for him to forget that he doesn't like playing the Triangle. 2 years, means 2 more years of Rose looking off KP.

Does this imply you think Rose will get a substantial deal elsewhere?

This made very plain where Rose was in terms of health, fitness, and readiness after 4 years of injuries. Also showed where he was on both offense and defense.

Can only count on him for 60+ games.

Can be explosive to basket.

Not a 3pt threat.

Not a defender.

Not a facilitator.

Good midrange, undersized SG.

Which teams will pay for that?

If he can pass a physical, and a tryout, Rose could be a very effective 6th man. For all the deficiencies in his game you pointed out. Having someone with Rose's ability to get to the rim, unclog lanes, change the tide on a contender could get him a nice payday.That is considering what some of Lebrons teammates have received.

Sounds like somone you would want on the Knicks, but Im guessing he would not be used that way in NY. As for his value, my concern is that Phil will be as generous to Rose as he was to Noah, if not more. Legitimate concern IMO.

Do any of the contending teams have ANY capspace to sign Rose?

And do they really want to gamble using that precious space on Rose?! If someone wants to pay him 8 figures a season, good for them. I'm OK with him staying here but it's gotta be a very small salary.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

Rose ain't coming back for peanuts. Its going to take some serious change for him to forget that he doesn't like playing the Triangle. 2 years, means 2 more years of Rose looking off KP.

Does this imply you think Rose will get a substantial deal elsewhere?

This made very plain where Rose was in terms of health, fitness, and readiness after 4 years of injuries. Also showed where he was on both offense and defense.

Can only count on him for 60+ games.

Can be explosive to basket.

Not a 3pt threat.

Not a defender.

Not a facilitator.

Good midrange, undersized SG.

Which teams will pay for that?

If he can pass a physical, and a tryout, Rose could be a very effective 6th man. For all the deficiencies in his game you pointed out. Having someone with Rose's ability to get to the rim, unclog lanes, change the tide on a contender could get him a nice payday.That is considering what some of Lebrons teammates have received.

Sounds like somone you would want on the Knicks, but Im guessing he would not be used that way in NY. As for his value, my concern is that Phil will be as generous to Rose as he was to Noah, if not more. Legitimate concern IMO.

Do any of the contending teams have ANY capspace to sign Rose?

Good question not sure, probably some teams would have to make moves to clear space. To what lengths they will go will in part have to do with how the playoffs go for some contenders, and how deseperate they will be to add some instant offense.

For all the things Rose doesn't do, short of Westbrook, no one really gets to the rim unchallenged like he does, I imagine. Maybe Harden. He would be worth a big one year deal.

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

I am glad you brought this up as I was going to include it in my initial post but wanted to see if someone else would bring it up.

Does the contract length matter. What if gave Rose a 2 yr $34m+ with a player option? Does it even matter since Phil continued to harp on moving the ball, defense, and culture?

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:stupid Knick fans. Not one of you asked the terms. 4 years $100mm? Or 2 years and $25mm like a Rondo type deal? Not all circumstances are equal.

Rose ain't coming back for peanuts. Its going to take some serious change for him to forget that he doesn't like playing the Triangle. 2 years, means 2 more years of Rose looking off KP.

Does this imply you think Rose will get a substantial deal elsewhere?

This made very plain where Rose was in terms of health, fitness, and readiness after 4 years of injuries. Also showed where he was on both offense and defense.

Can only count on him for 60+ games.

Can be explosive to basket.

Not a 3pt threat.

Not a defender.

Not a facilitator.

Good midrange, undersized SG.

Which teams will pay for that?

If he can pass a physical, and a tryout, Rose could be a very effective 6th man. For all the deficiencies in his game you pointed out. Having someone with Rose's ability to get to the rim, unclog lanes, change the tide on a contender could get him a nice payday.That is considering what some of Lebrons teammates have received.

Sounds like somone you would want on the Knicks, but Im guessing he would not be used that way in NY. As for his value, my concern is that Phil will be as generous to Rose as he was to Noah, if not more. Legitimate concern IMO.

Do any of the contending teams have ANY capspace to sign Rose?

Good question not sure, probably some teams would have to make moves to clear space. To what lengths they will go will in part have to do with how the playoffs go for some contenders, and how deseperate they will be to add some instant offense.

For all the things Rose doesn't do, short of Westbrook, no one really gets to the rim unchallenged like he does, I imagine. Maybe Harden. He would be worth a big one year deal.

Again, the costs. Most all contenders are waaayyy over the limit (when you factor in guys they will undoubtedly resign). http://www.basketball-reference.com/cont...

And since that is the case, they would need to MOVE players without taking back contracts. And THEN you can think about a big, one year deal.

Not easy. And all of this for a guy who can't pass, doesn't play D, AND is coming off of knee surgery. Again. Meaning he may miss significant time or all of the playoffs.

I don't see even a 1 year big deal in those circumstances.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

Oh I thought you meant regular MLE. mMLE meaning the room exception?

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

Oh I thought you meant regular MLE. mMLE meaning the room exception?

Bottom line I think Rose is a $3m type of player at best.

Teams will have cap space this year.

Just as a further reminder:
Evan Turner is getting 17.5 mm a year for four years.
Mozgov is getting 16mm a year for four years.
We gave Noah 18mm.
Harrison Barnes got a near max deal. Harrison Barnes.
Jeremy Lin is on 12mm
Chandler Parsons? Arron Afflalo? Rondo? Wade? Beal? Clarkson? Do I need to give more?

While I believe Rose isn't worth more more than the vet min here, especially with all the bullshit he has pulled on this team and the dysfunction he has contributed to, I also sadly believe that Rose will get paid this coming FA....handsomely if he wants to just because his name is Derrick Rose.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

Don't think he will take anything close to that. But it Depends on the term, for me. Not a fan of his court vision or true PG skill set but he can sure create. If term is short and Knicks can convince him to come off bench and be a "Lou Williams" type, then not the worst thing. But like I said, Just don't think he is going to take less money AND a bench role as well. Just hope Phil doesn't repeat the Noah type lapse of judgement.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

Oh I thought you meant regular MLE. mMLE meaning the room exception?

I believe it is also called the room exception. I think the knicks only have the full MLE but I think Rose is still a mMLE type of salary player but I may have to rethink that because the mMLE may have actually gone up. Now, that I think about the MLE will be worth around $8m and it was in the $5.6m area(I think) last year.

Bottom line I think Rose is a $3m type of player at best.

Yeah that sounds reasonable. I think he'll probably get more elsewhere but it will be interesting to see how much interest there actually is in him.

HofstraBBall wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I personally think Rose is a mMLE type player and is simply a bigger version of Monta Ellis. It's hard to win with Ellis/Rose types and if it is hard to win with those types why have them around on a team that is rebuilding with Youth?

Meaning like $6 mil a year? I'd hate to spend that much on him but if we struck out with better FAs, I'd be open to it.

Did the mMLE go up that much? I thought it was still in the $3m territory.

Don't think he will take anything close to that. But it Depends on the term, for me. Not a fan of his court vision or true PG skill set but he can sure create. If term is short and Knicks can convince him to come off bench and be a "Lou Williams" type, then not the worst thing. But like I said, Just don't think he is going to take less money AND a bench role as well. Just hope Phil doesn't repeat the Noah type lapse of judgement.

yellowboy90 wrote:So if the directive is to get younger and collect more 2-way players if Phil brought back Rose how would you view Phil's direction of the team?

Rose would be brought back simply to take scoring pressure off KP and others -- especially late in games.

TPercy wrote:
Hawks: 31m
Boston: 20m
GSW: 24m
Clippers: 42m
Memphis: 29M
OKC: 38m
Toronto: 40m

Teams will have cap space this year.

Just as a further reminder:
Evan Turner is getting 17.5 mm a year for four years.
Mozgov is getting 16mm a year for four years.
We gave Noah 18mm.
Harrison Barnes got a near max deal. Harrison Barnes.
Jeremy Lin is on 12mm
Chandler Parsons? Arron Afflalo? Rondo? Wade? Beal? Clarkson? Do I need to give more?

While I believe Rose isn't worth more more than the vet min here, especially with all the bullshit he has pulled on this team and the dysfunction he has contributed to, I also sadly believe that Rose will get paid this coming FA....handsomely if he wants to just because his name is Derrick Rose.

You have to present this much better. I don't know where you are getting your numbers either. http://www.basketball-reference.com/cont...

Example:

                                   
			    2017-18
DeMar DeRozan	 	$27,739,975 
Jonas Valanciunas	$15,460,675 
DeMarre Carroll	 	$14,800,000 
Serge Ibaka	
Kyle Lowry	
Cory Joseph	 	 $7,660,000 
Patrick Patterson	
P.J. Tucker	
Jakob Poeltl	 	 $2,825,640 
Lucas Nogueira	 	 $2,947,305 
Bruno Caboclo	 	 $2,451,225 
Delon Wright	 	 $1,645,200 
Pascal Siakam	 	 $1,249,920 
Norman Powell	 	 $1,014,746 
Fred VanVleet	 	  $905,249 
	 		$78,699,935 

Toronto seems to have $28M of cap BEFORE they need to resign Ibaka, Lowry, Patterson, Tucker, draft pick?

Also, cap holds.

nixluva wrote:Rose is just a SG at this point. Not a bad thing to have a scorer on the roster.

WTF, your middle name is NIX "When Melo and Rose are gone"LUVA

He would be completely pointless to bring him back if your playing the triangle. His contract would be packed with incentives