Knicks · Can't believe almost every player phil traded away is in the playoffs contributing..THANKS PHIL (page 5)

knicks1248 wrote:We make trades to get players off the roster, not improve the roster. Every playoff contender feels like they are a player away. You put melo on any playoff team this year and they could challenge the Cavs or GSW.

But keep melo on this current roster and we are a 30 win team, so why isn't phil looking at adding instead of subtracting. your not building around melo, your adding talent to the roster

https://www.mathsisfun.com/positive-nega...

Take a look at the balloon example. Picture Melo as that weight pulling the balloon down. See what happens when you subtract that? The balloon can fly and be happy and one with the birds and the clouds.

fishmike wrote:So we start with an article from the Post. Then a sentence later we learn that Phil Jackson would trade KD, Curry, or even Labron for Ron Baker if Baker was a better fit in the shanannings offense. Well that escalated quickly!

Could be a looooong offseason.

LMAO

fwk00 wrote:Last night, Hardaway - at the end of the last quarter with one minute or so left was -cough- "guarding" John Wall. Game over. Getting rid of him belongs on the plus side of Phil's ledger.

Im sure baker or randle would have lock wall down for the game

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:So we start with an article from the Post. Then a sentence later we learn that Phil Jackson would trade KD, Curry, or even Labron for Ron Baker if Baker was a better fit in the shanannings offense. Well that escalated quickly!

Could be a looooong offseason.

LMAO

I could imagine Phil cringing every time Curry steps across the half court line and launches a 3.Thats a triangle sin.. He already thinks the 3 ball are cheap lazy shots

knicks1248 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:So we start with an article from the Post. Then a sentence later we learn that Phil Jackson would trade KD, Curry, or even Labron for Ron Baker if Baker was a better fit in the shanannings offense. Well that escalated quickly!

Could be a looooong offseason.

LMAO

I could imagine Phil cringing every time Curry steps across the half court line and launches a 3.Thats a triangle sin.. He already thinks the 3 ball are cheap lazy shots

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

A lot change's if JC and ZBO were not traded, their certainly wouldn't be no Amare, we would still have gallo,and chandler.. Probably would have traded for a real pg instead of Melo.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

A lot change's if JC and ZBO were not traded, their certainly wouldn't be no Amare, we would still have gallo,and chandler.. Probably would have traded for a real pg instead of Melo.

When we traded guys away to make our Lebron run - we gave up assets, made bad deals just to try to be in a position to go after Lebron. That was the start of digging the hole on the franchise, and it's a hole we're still in.

I don't know that we would be better if we hadn't made some of those moves, kept guys like Zach & Crawford.

But I feel like Phil's decision to build with triangles and trade Melo and interfere with how Jeff want's to coach has the same feel to making moves that negatively impact our franchise.

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

A lot change's if JC and ZBO were not traded, their certainly wouldn't be no Amare, we would still have gallo,and chandler.. Probably would have traded for a real pg instead of Melo.

When we traded guys away to make our Lebron run - we gave up assets, made bad deals just to try to be in a position to go after Lebron. That was the start of digging the hole on the franchise, and it's a hole we're still in.

I don't know that we would be better if we hadn't made some of those moves, kept guys like Zach & Crawford.

But I feel like Phil's decision to build with triangles and trade Melo and interfere with how Jeff want's to coach has the same feel to making moves that negatively impact our franchise.

We overpaid for assets in the Isiah era. Because of bad play and other factors (Zbo was awful here) they were removed for less than their eventual fair market. Thus we bought high and sold low. Melo was purchased at MSRP, and performed up to his contract and projections. Yes, Im not blaming him. But, you pay high and sell low you end up with depleted assets.
Phil in 3 years dismantled a 37 win team that was floundering enroute to a 17 win season. The common Phil hate mantra is he somehow created this problem. Not at all true. This problem was build over a long period of time. Trade a first round pick for Bargnani? Thnk that has no effect? Numbers don't lie, but also numbers that don't exist need to speak their truth.

Connecting the dots lie.
Knicks 1248 lies.

The Knicks record speaks for itself.

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

A lot change's if JC and ZBO were not traded, their certainly wouldn't be no Amare, we would still have gallo,and chandler.. Probably would have traded for a real pg instead of Melo.

When we traded guys away to make our Lebron run - we gave up assets, made bad deals just to try to be in a position to go after Lebron. That was the start of digging the hole on the franchise, and it's a hole we're still in.

I don't know that we would be better if we hadn't made some of those moves, kept guys like Zach & Crawford.

But I feel like Phil's decision to build with triangles and trade Melo and interfere with how Jeff want's to coach has the same feel to making moves that negatively impact our franchise.

We overpaid for assets in the Isiah era. Because of bad play and other factors (Zbo was awful here) they were removed for less than their eventual fair market. Thus we bought high and sold low. Melo was purchased at MSRP, and performed up to his contract and projections. Yes, Im not blaming him. But, you pay high and sell low you end up with depleted assets.
Phil in 3 years dismantled a 37 win team that was floundering enroute to a 17 win season. The common Phil hate mantra is he somehow created this problem. Not at all true. This problem was build over a long period of time. Trade a first round pick for Bargnani? Thnk that has no effect? Numbers don't lie, but also numbers that don't exist need to speak their truth.

Connecting the dots lie.
Knicks 1248 lies.

The Knicks record speaks for itself.

you call a team that won 70% of their final 21 games, and had been hammered by injuries all season long, floundering..

Guys were traded because they could not fit the system and phil never gave it a 2nd thought.... period

Tim Hardaway Jr: 4-18 shooting, 13pts
Calderon: 2-4 shooting, 6 points
Lopez- 10pts 5rebs
J Grant: 4pts 0 assists
Felton: 1-4 shooting, 2pts, 1 assist

I.E. if Phil Jackson simply had to dump certain players, then at least dump them with no lingering long term problems from other teams.

If he wanted to dump Tyson Chandler, then he wanted to get rid of him. Chandler had enough value to simply go for expiring contracts, no need to take in the bad Calderon contract in exchange. The BARE MINIMUM should be a "wash" Is it ideal? No, it's not maximizing value, but it's also not limiting your options in the future.

The Smith/Shumpert trade could have been a wash. But then Jackson had to overpay Lance Thomas, which created a net negative situation from that deal.

The situation was bad when he walked in. This is not his fault. He kept making the situation worse ( trading for Calderon, trading for then giving a bad deal to Lance Thomas, taking youth ( Grant) and stability (Lopez) and converting it to Rose and his issues)

A good decision maker creates a net positive

An average decision maker just does enough to not keep hurting his franchise

A bad decision maker ( Phil) inflicts more damage.

The litmus test for "harm" is not ex Knicks doing positive things for other teams, it's whether Jackson creates more answers to current problems or keeps stacking more problems onto current problems.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:If they are that good should we trade them back now? We can give up what we have now to bring them back actually. KP plus Willy plus picks should be enough.

Shockingly, I think of both Z Bo and Crawford - and how they would have been starters for us this year.

which would have accomplished what?

solid veterans on the roster with some value

If you good with numbers, then look at their salary then subtract whose place they take.
Better yet, go back and reconstruct the team before before it was decided to make a run for Lebron?

Zbo was the same guy here? Mature and devoted to his craft? Did knicks have an in prime Marc Gasol and Michael Conley as a base as well? These guys on the same team now for years!!!!
Numbers don't like, but deleting facts does.

A lot change's if JC and ZBO were not traded, their certainly wouldn't be no Amare, we would still have gallo,and chandler.. Probably would have traded for a real pg instead of Melo.

When we traded guys away to make our Lebron run - we gave up assets, made bad deals just to try to be in a position to go after Lebron. That was the start of digging the hole on the franchise, and it's a hole we're still in.

I don't know that we would be better if we hadn't made some of those moves, kept guys like Zach & Crawford.

But I feel like Phil's decision to build with triangles and trade Melo and interfere with how Jeff want's to coach has the same feel to making moves that negatively impact our franchise.

We overpaid for assets in the Isiah era. Because of bad play and other factors (Zbo was awful here) they were removed for less than their eventual fair market. Thus we bought high and sold low. Melo was purchased at MSRP, and performed up to his contract and projections. Yes, Im not blaming him. But, you pay high and sell low you end up with depleted assets.
Phil in 3 years dismantled a 37 win team that was floundering enroute to a 17 win season. The common Phil hate mantra is he somehow created this problem. Not at all true. This problem was build over a long period of time. Trade a first round pick for Bargnani? Thnk that has no effect? Numbers don't lie, but also numbers that don't exist need to speak their truth.

Connecting the dots lie.
Knicks 1248 lies.

The Knicks record speaks for itself.

you call a team that won 70% of their final 21 games, and had been hammered by injuries all season long, floundering..

Guys were traded because they could not fit the system and phil never gave it a 2nd thought.... period

Yes, that team was floundering. Injuries matter. The core of that team are role players elsewhere. Here they were founding on expiring contracts, or had little trade value.
Next to Lebron and two other all stars, they did well.
Jordans/Phil's last year in Chicago might have been a premature teardown. Knicks teardown? Naw, the 17win team started awful. Blame the triangle. OK, team raised the bar and its the triangles fault. Blame must be assigned. Guess what, Knicks for years mismanaged its talent acquisition. It added up.