NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.
So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.
Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.
Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.
It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.
It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.
And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.
3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.
Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.
And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....
All that happened right? But the Knicks sit here today with KP, Willy... a future #7 pick in 2017 sand a future pick in 2018. We have cap flexibility. We have a couple experienced vets.... it may not be a perfect thing but here we are in good shape after 3 seasons.... but we're doomed and can't improve? Yeah ok.... keep fighting to be miserable
....we sit here with two 2nd round draft picks between now and 2022. We sit here with very little financial flexibility or cap space of consequence despite being one of the worst teams in the league. We sit here with a deminished pick at the 7th seed because of hubris. We sit here with "experienced vets" with only Courtney Lee being able to fetch a 1st round pick, or actually play nearly all 82.
But keep drinking the kool-aid. Maybe you could tell me again how Andrea Bargnani was a great idea for a 1st round pick. Or how Jose Calderon was going to take the East by storm.
Phil gets extra second round picks just about every year.... but you want to talk about 2nd round picks right?
Knicks will have 19 million to spend this off season but you wanna say we have little financial flexibility?
How is a #7 pick diminished? Cuz you wanted to lose more you miserable wretch?
Courtney Lee did NOT play in 82 games clown.... Justin Holiday did though. KOQ played 79.... Lee played 77!
And now you want talk Bargnani? Calderon? Please man. You are pathetically miserable
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild. 
But that's not funny nor does it make any sense. Just more negativity. The truth is Phil is on the sane path. He gutted and tanked for KP... then in 2 years with kp he tried to get Melo help while still getting younger. Phil had been combing Europe and finding serviceable players to play for us. That's all one plan, one rebuild. Not everything is going to work but the method has been the same. Expect more of it... ask the good things we habe going on will only improve going forward as long as we stay consistent
More of the same? That means almost all our cap space will be used on guys like Rose, Melo, and Noah? The idea that that was part of a rebuilding plan doesn't pass the laugh test - at least not if it's a sensible rebuilding plan.
But Melo is a star player that wanted to be here. He took a chance on him to buy in. Melo didn't buy in... that didn't change what Phil iss doing. He's still finding young players and obscure talent.
Noah is a guy he wanted here mostly for his hard work and leadership. I could live with that. Noah is worth more than just his play on the court.
Rose is an expiring contract. It's not like he is on a 4 year deal. He was worth the look but he's gone now. Nothing to talk about.
Outside of those three you mentioned, we have been sensibly rebuilding. You choose to dwell on the negative. I feel sorry that you suffer. Stop suffering. Get help. See someone
Oh those three were just the start. Suffer? I enjoy the critical analysis. It's much more fun than blind faith.
Critical analysis? Is that the same as alternative facts? You are basically admitting that you prefer to talk about the negativity rather than talk about forward movement. I can't respect that. Just more examples of how far fans will go just to fight for their right to be miserable
No to your question about alternative facts, and no it's not the same as negativity. I've given Phil huge praise for the one thing he has done well (draft players). You are the one who sounds miserable. You sound like unless you can convince every Knick fan to have blind faith, it's awful.
It's not blind faith. It's true fact.... and what kind of fan would rather enjoy misery and wish for more of it With no end in sight? What kind of fan is that? Its one thing if we didn't have our picks or any young players.... or being capped out with a bunch of losers that we can't trade.... we're none of that. We do have all our picks, young players and cap flexibility... that's not blind faith. That's true fact!
LOL. You're delusional if you think anyone here meets that description.
I'm looking at the kinds of things you're celebrating (We have our own pick!!). You have terribly low standards.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
You can't sneak Hayward in the last 5 years... dude was drafted in 2010! Alex Burke can't be mentioned if he's been hurt for 2 years. Dante Exum did nothing since he's been drafted. Her was absolutely not a part of any playoff run. Stop lying. Nero isn't in the nba anymore dude stop lying!!! TREY LYLES PLAYED 10 MINUTES IN 2 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!! STOP LYING!!!!
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.
So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.
Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.
Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.
It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.
It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.
And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.
3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.
Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.
And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....
All that happened right? But the Knicks sit here today with KP, Willy... a future #7 pick in 2017 sand a future pick in 2018. We have cap flexibility. We have a couple experienced vets.... it may not be a perfect thing but here we are in good shape after 3 seasons.... but we're doomed and can't improve? Yeah ok.... keep fighting to be miserable
....we sit here with two 2nd round draft picks between now and 2022. We sit here with very little financial flexibility or cap space of consequence despite being one of the worst teams in the league. We sit here with a deminished pick at the 7th seed because of hubris. We sit here with "experienced vets" with only Courtney Lee being able to fetch a 1st round pick, or actually play nearly all 82.
But keep drinking the kool-aid. Maybe you could tell me again how Andrea Bargnani was a great idea for a 1st round pick. Or how Jose Calderon was going to take the East by storm.
Phil gets extra second round picks just about every year.... but you want to talk about 2nd round picks right?
Knicks will have scout 19 million to spend this off drain but you wanna say we have little financial flexibility?
How is a #7 pick diminished? Cuz you wanted to lose more you miserable wretch?
Courtney Lee did NOT play in 82 games clown.... Justin Holiday did though. KOQ played 79.... Lee played 77!
And now you want talk Bargnani? Calderon? Please man. You are pathetically miserable
I said that Courtney Lee played "nearly all 82", not that he played all 82. But I'm not surprised how the nuances of situation could be lost on you. In any case, Derrick Rose certainly did not come close to 82. Joakim Noah certainly did not come close to 82. But we invested quite a bit of resourcez in them.
$20 million in this NBA, with this new payroll scale is chump change. Bench players like Allen Crabbe and Tyler Johnson nearly make that annually. That means we are a bench player away from being capped out, which is not ideal considering how awful we are. You keep bringing up Justin Holiday; well, if we keep him, he'll definitely command a significant portion of that cap space.
Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild.
But that's not funny nor does it make any sense. Just more negativity. The truth is Phil is on the sane path. He gutted and tanked for KP... then in 2 years with kp he tried to get Melo help while still getting younger. Phil had been combing Europe and finding serviceable players to play for us. That's all one plan, one rebuild. Not everything is going to work but the method has been the same. Expect more of it... ask the good things we habe going on will only improve going forward as long as we stay consistent
More of the same? That means almost all our cap space will be used on guys like Rose, Melo, and Noah? The idea that that was part of a rebuilding plan doesn't pass the laugh test - at least not if it's a sensible rebuilding plan.
But Melo is a star player that wanted to be here. He took a chance on him to buy in. Melo didn't buy in... that didn't change what Phil iss doing. He's still finding young players and obscure talent.
Noah is a guy he wanted here mostly for his hard work and leadership. I could live with that. Noah is worth more than just his play on the court.
Rose is an expiring contract. It's not like he is on a 4 year deal. He was worth the look but he's gone now. Nothing to talk about.
Outside of those three you mentioned, we have been sensibly rebuilding. You choose to dwell on the negative. I feel sorry that you suffer. Stop suffering. Get help. See someone
Oh those three were just the start. Suffer? I enjoy the critical analysis. It's much more fun than blind faith.
Critical analysis? Is that the same as alternative facts? You are basically admitting that you prefer to talk about the negativity rather than talk about forward movement. I can't respect that. Just more examples of how far fans will go just to fight for their right to be miserable
No to your question about alternative facts, and no it's not the same as negativity. I've given Phil huge praise for the one thing he has done well (draft players). You are the one who sounds miserable. You sound like unless you can convince every Knick fan to have blind faith, it's awful.
It's not blind faith. It's true fact.... and what kind of fan would rather enjoy misery and wish for more of it With no end in sight? What kind of fan is that? Its one thing if we didn't have our picks or any young players.... or being capped out with a bunch of losers that we can't trade.... we're none of that. We do have all our picks, young players and cap flexibility... that's not blind faith. That's true fact!
LOL. You're delusional if you think anyone here meets that description.
I'm looking at the kinds of things you're celebrating (We have our own pick!!). You have terribly low standards.
And you are sitting here arguing with me trying tho convince me the Knicks suck and have no future. Yet the Jax are better when they sucked for the last 5 years doing all kinds of stupid moves. Yet the Knicks have no chance. No delusion on my end
Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
OK but we're not 4 years into Phil's rebuilding. We're 1 year into his fourth rebuild.
But that's not funny nor does it make any sense. Just more negativity. The truth is Phil is on the sane path. He gutted and tanked for KP... then in 2 years with kp he tried to get Melo help while still getting younger. Phil had been combing Europe and finding serviceable players to play for us. That's all one plan, one rebuild. Not everything is going to work but the method has been the same. Expect more of it... ask the good things we habe going on will only improve going forward as long as we stay consistent
More of the same? That means almost all our cap space will be used on guys like Rose, Melo, and Noah? The idea that that was part of a rebuilding plan doesn't pass the laugh test - at least not if it's a sensible rebuilding plan.
But Melo is a star player that wanted to be here. He took a chance on him to buy in. Melo didn't buy in... that didn't change what Phil iss doing. He's still finding young players and obscure talent.
Noah is a guy he wanted here mostly for his hard work and leadership. I could live with that. Noah is worth more than just his play on the court.
Rose is an expiring contract. It's not like he is on a 4 year deal. He was worth the look but he's gone now. Nothing to talk about.
Outside of those three you mentioned, we have been sensibly rebuilding. You choose to dwell on the negative. I feel sorry that you suffer. Stop suffering. Get help. See someone
Oh those three were just the start. Suffer? I enjoy the critical analysis. It's much more fun than blind faith.
Critical analysis? Is that the same as alternative facts? You are basically admitting that you prefer to talk about the negativity rather than talk about forward movement. I can't respect that. Just more examples of how far fans will go just to fight for their right to be miserable
No to your question about alternative facts, and no it's not the same as negativity. I've given Phil huge praise for the one thing he has done well (draft players). You are the one who sounds miserable. You sound like unless you can convince every Knick fan to have blind faith, it's awful.
It's not blind faith. It's true fact.... and what kind of fan would rather enjoy misery and wish for more of it With no end in sight? What kind of fan is that? Its one thing if we didn't have our picks or any young players.... or being capped out with a bunch of losers that we can't trade.... we're none of that. We do have all our picks, young players and cap flexibility... that's not blind faith. That's true fact!
LOL. You're delusional if you think anyone here meets that description.
I'm looking at the kinds of things you're celebrating (We have our own pick!!). You have terribly low standards.
Lol, I should've followed your cue and kept this short and sweet.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
You can't sneak Hayward in the last 5 years... dude was drafted in 2010! Alex Burke can't be mentioned if he's been hurt for 2 years. Dante Exum did nothing since he's been drafted. Her was absolutely not a part of any playoff run. Stop lying. Nero isn't in the nba anymore dude stop lying!!! TREY LYLES PLAYED 10 MINUTES IN 2 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!! STOP LYING!!!!
So...how is it that we speak of a Jazz rebuild but exclude all the players they drafted during the rebuild who actually play key roles on the team?
Also, how can Raul Neto be out of the league...if he just played in the past 3 games with the Jazz?
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.
So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.
Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.
Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.
It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.
It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.
And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.
3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.
Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.
And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....
All that happened right? But the Knicks sit here today with KP, Willy... a future #7 pick in 2017 sand a future pick in 2018. We have cap flexibility. We have a couple experienced vets.... it may not be a perfect thing but here we are in good shape after 3 seasons.... but we're doomed and can't improve? Yeah ok.... keep fighting to be miserable
....we sit here with two 2nd round draft picks between now and 2022. We sit here with very little financial flexibility or cap space of consequence despite being one of the worst teams in the league. We sit here with a deminished pick at the 7th seed because of hubris. We sit here with "experienced vets" with only Courtney Lee being able to fetch a 1st round pick, or actually play nearly all 82.
But keep drinking the kool-aid. Maybe you could tell me again how Andrea Bargnani was a great idea for a 1st round pick. Or how Jose Calderon was going to take the East by storm.
Phil gets extra second round picks just about every year.... but you want to talk about 2nd round picks right?
Knicks will have scout 19 million to spend this off drain but you wanna say we have little financial flexibility?
How is a #7 pick diminished? Cuz you wanted to lose more you miserable wretch?
Courtney Lee did NOT play in 82 games clown.... Justin Holiday did though. KOQ played 79.... Lee played 77!
And now you want talk Bargnani? Calderon? Please man. You are pathetically miserable
I said that Courtney Lee played "nearly all 82", not that he played all 82. But I'm not surprised how the nuances of situation could be lost on you. In any case, Derrick Rose certainly did not come close to 82. Joakim Noah certainly did not come close to 82. But we invested quite a bit of resourcez in them.
$20 million in this NBA, with this new payroll scale is chump change. Bench players like Allen Crabbe and Tyler Johnson nearly make that annually. That means we are a bench player away from being capped out, which is not ideal considering how awful we are. You keep bringing up Justin Holiday; well, if we keep him, he'll definitely command a significant portion of that cap space.
You keep mentioning Noah and Rose. NOAH isn't going anywhere but Rose is free agent... but the fact is Lee isn't the only one that played "nearly" 82 games.
And I mentioned Justin Holiday only to mention a guy that was a throw away that we habe a chance to play. Nothing more. And if we did keep him so what? Why do we habe to be stupid clubs like Portland sand the Lakers and toronto and blow cash on mediocre players just because. Phil has only splurged on Noah. He's been getting cheaper value players. I'm sure we'll do the same this year.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
You can't sneak Hayward in the last 5 years... dude was drafted in 2010! Alex Burke can't be mentioned if he's been hurt for 2 years. Dante Exum did nothing since he's been drafted. Her was absolutely not a part of any playoff run. Stop lying. Nero isn't in the nba anymore dude stop lying!!! TREY LYLES PLAYED 10 MINUTES IN 2 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!! STOP LYING!!!!
So...how is it that we speak of a Jazz rebuild but exclude all the players they drafted during the rebuild who actually play key roles on the team?
Also, how can Raul Neto be out of the league...if he just played in the past 3 games with the Jazz?
5 years idiot! And I just explained how stupid your list was. You are a liar!
(Fyi Neto okayed 9 games and 60 total minutes... but please carry on)
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...The team they have now took 5 years to make... their star player Gordon Hayward was drafted in 2010. He just became a 20pt per game score a few seasons ago. Derrick Favors was drafted the same year as Hayward and looked Like a star buy has recently succumbed to injuries. They have had plenty of good draft picks and bad ones. Injuries have really plagued them... but they finally made it back to the playoffs.
The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. Contrary to popular belief, Phil is not the reason thet started losing... They lost 36 games the year after they won 54 games with basically the same core intact. Phil has led us the last 3 years. We've gutted the roster and slowly we have built some youth with More to come. http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Point being... you have to let this thing build up into something real. The ground work is there. We are about 2 years away from hopefully our own playoff run. Maybe sooner. Enjoy the ride motherfucker
What bad draft picks have the Jazz made? Even their worst pick might be merely average.
So that's all you want to talk about? Just looking for something to argue about? Yes the Jazz have drafted players that didn't work out. It's typical that a passing comment would get a response.
Yeah because I disagree with the essence of your post. We're not nearly as competent as the Jazz have demonstrated to be. They've had a seasoned front office that has had a winning culture for more than two decades. We're a franchise that has changed our front office every 3-4 years, with the most recent iteration headed by a complete neophyte that has consistently made an ass out of himself, save for the Porzingis pick....which was probably made by an infrastructure that preceded him (we've been good at drafting international players since Gallo in 2008). There is no comparison between them and us.
Again you want to argue. I'm taking about their recent history. 5 years without being in the playoffs is not good. Don't talk to me about seasoning. We're not frying chicken. The Knicks were just in the playoffs 4 years ago. The past is the past. Phil had only been here 3 years were on a rebuilding path. The comparison is valid.
It's insane how much fans want to fight for the right to be misersble.
It's not a matter of fighting to be miserable. It's a matter of coming to grips with reality.
And the reality is that there has been very little during Phil's tenure here to demonstrate that he is effective in his capacity as Team President. The Porzingis selection is very much his only saving grace and is an aberration to a series of inept decisions he has made (or did not make). Porzingis aside, name me two moves he has done that have actually made this team more valuable or placed us in a better position for the future.
3 seasons... first season was sacrificed to get KP. We also got Willy the same year. In between he found Lance and KOQ. Ndour, Kuz, Holiday, Lance Thomas, Baker, Randle, Lee.... all positive players. Plenty of other guys that didn't workout but they are no longer here. Every year we get better. Every year someone else sticks. This off season we will get more of these players from a Melo trade, draft and free agency.... it's positive and it's forward building. Its going to take a while... just like it took the Jazz 5 years to get back. Phil hasn't had 5 years yet.
Please. All you smucks were hyping Jose Calderon and how that trade would get us back into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, which we'd continue to build on. The intent was never to "sacrifice" the season; we just happened to be terrible by accident. If Phil's agenda were to truely rebuild, he would have never traded Tyson Chandler for anything short of a mid-1st round pick (which is what the Rockets got for career malcontent and backup Omer Asik that same season). If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have allowed Melo to have a NTC in his contract. If his agenda were to truely rebuild, he never would have blown cap space on win-now veterans, rather than for draft picks that teams like the Kings and Cavs gave up to shed bad contracts. That's because Phil never intended to rebuild, he intended to retool with big ticket free agent signings.
And the players you think Phil has "found", have all be rethreads from other teams that have been disposed of save for Mindaugas Kuzminskaus....who is 27 years old, going on 28. Best case scenario is that they are inconsequential 2nd unit players on a winning team. More likely than not, they end up out of the league like all the other hyped bench players we were developing that were someday going to make it e.g. Jeremy Tyler, Andy Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Josh Harrellson, Toure Murry....
All that happened right? But the Knicks sit here today with KP, Willy... a future #7 pick in 2017 sand a future pick in 2018. We have cap flexibility. We have a couple experienced vets.... it may not be a perfect thing but here we are in good shape after 3 seasons.... but we're doomed and can't improve? Yeah ok.... keep fighting to be miserable
....we sit here with two 2nd round draft picks between now and 2022. We sit here with very little financial flexibility or cap space of consequence despite being one of the worst teams in the league. We sit here with a deminished pick at the 7th seed because of hubris. We sit here with "experienced vets" with only Courtney Lee being able to fetch a 1st round pick, or actually play nearly all 82.
But keep drinking the kool-aid. Maybe you could tell me again how Andrea Bargnani was a great idea for a 1st round pick. Or how Jose Calderon was going to take the East by storm.
Phil gets extra second round picks just about every year.... but you want to talk about 2nd round picks right?
Knicks will have scout 19 million to spend this off drain but you wanna say we have little financial flexibility?
How is a #7 pick diminished? Cuz you wanted to lose more you miserable wretch?
Courtney Lee did NOT play in 82 games clown.... Justin Holiday did though. KOQ played 79.... Lee played 77!
And now you want talk Bargnani? Calderon? Please man. You are pathetically miserable
I said that Courtney Lee played "nearly all 82", not that he played all 82. But I'm not surprised how the nuances of situation could be lost on you. In any case, Derrick Rose certainly did not come close to 82. Joakim Noah certainly did not come close to 82. But we invested quite a bit of resourcez in them.
$20 million in this NBA, with this new payroll scale is chump change. Bench players like Allen Crabbe and Tyler Johnson nearly make that annually. That means we are a bench player away from being capped out, which is not ideal considering how awful we are. You keep bringing up Justin Holiday; well, if we keep him, he'll definitely command a significant portion of that cap space.
You keep mentioning Noah and Rose. NOAH isn't going anywhere but Rose is free agent... but the fact is Lee isn't the only one that played "nearly" 82 games.
And I mentioned Justin Holiday only to mention a guy that was a throw away that we habe a chance to play. Nothing more. And if we did keep him so what? Why do we habe to be stupid clubs like Portland sand the Lakers and toronto and blow cash on mediocre players just because. Phil has only splurged on Noah. He's been getting cheaper value players. I'm sure we'll do the same this year.
Kind of stupid to invest the bulk of your cap and precious assets into guys, who either are not going to be around beyond one season or who can barely play half a season without being injured. Wouldn't you say?
And if Justin Holiday is not some kind of building stone or won't be around, why even mention him at all? We can't even get assets for him in a sign and trade since we don't even own his rights!
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
You can't sneak Hayward in the last 5 years... dude was drafted in 2010! Alex Burke can't be mentioned if he's been hurt for 2 years. Dante Exum did nothing since he's been drafted. Her was absolutely not a part of any playoff run. Stop lying. Nero isn't in the nba anymore dude stop lying!!! TREY LYLES PLAYED 10 MINUTES IN 2 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!! STOP LYING!!!!
So...how is it that we speak of a Jazz rebuild but exclude all the players they drafted during the rebuild who actually play key roles on the team?
Also, how can Raul Neto be out of the league...if he just played in the past 3 games with the Jazz?
5 years idiot! And I just explained how stupid your list was. You are a liar!
(Fyi Neto okayed 9 games and 60 total minutes... but please carry on)
So if the key players DRAFTED by the Jazz were DRAFTED outside of this 5 year timeframe...wouldn't that suggest their rebuild lasted longer than 5 years? But don't allow me to interrupt you. You're on a roll and totally seem sane right now.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Again...The jazz missed the playoffs 5 straight seasons. They rebuilt their club and got back. The Knicks have been out the playoffs for 4 straight seasons... 3 under the current administration. They are on right path. Our worst problems well all be taken care of this summer. Noah getting healthy, Rose becoming a free agent and Melo being traded. We have a ton of young players and more to come... but this isn't similiar to the Jazz? The knicks are destined to be bad but the Jazz have this rich history? Yeah ok.
All I'm getting back is negativity. How miserable and disgusting are you? You cry about the bad things so much that you can't enjoy the good. You can't see the Knicks have a chance to get back in the playoffs in the next 2 years? You want to talk about old shit that has nothing to do with Phil? How lame and pathetic are you?
Go check the respective teams' overall record the past two decades....then get back to us.
Again you want to talk about a passing comment and dwell on negativity. Pathetic
Why are you always so emotional?
Your entire response was predicated on my side of the aisle being "negative" and unfairly crediting the Jazz. Well the Jazz have more than 20 years of evidence that shows they consistently make the right decision. We don't. And there is no evidence to suggest that Phil Jackson will buck that trend.
The Jazz have consistently made moves with an eye toward their future, even if it temporarily inconveniences their present ambitions e.g. trading Ronnie Brewer to MEM for a 1st, Deron Williams to the Nets, Tom Gugulitto for the pick that became our 2010 1st rounder (Gordon Hayward).
We, on the other hand have consistently made shortsighted moves that provide marginal utility in the present and royally screws our future e.g. trading an eventual lottery pick for Andrea Bargnani (which you were an adament supporter of). Phil has continued that culture and instead of trying to supplement our cache of draft picks/young players, made foolish moves in an attempt to win now e.g. trading Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon instead of picks or signing guys like Aaron Afflalo instead of using his cap space to take the Kings bad contracts for Nik Stauskaus, SAC 2019 1st round pick and a 2018 1st round pick swap. We got lucky with Porzingis but again, that is an abherration and not the norm in Phil's plan.
Everything you are saying is stupid because the last 5 years the Jazz weren't in the playoffs. Spit out the Jazz printed underwear. The current Knicks are rebuilding just like the Jazz did. Your holy jazz tean sucked for 5 years as they rebuilt. The Knicks are in that same path... 3 years under Phil. Who is to say they can't finish this off and get back into the playoffs in 2 more years? Why are the Knicks destined to be bad forever? Why cuz a pathetic vampire fan says so?
Everything the Jazz did was build towards a moment when they could make the playoffs and make noise, over the past 5 years. During that span, we've tried to utilize as many assets/resources as possible EACH SEASON just to be a 7th or 8th seed. Therein lies the difference.
that's the biggest crock of shit I ever heard. If you weren't so pathetically negative you could say the same things about the Knicks you say about the Jazz. The jazz rebuild wasn't some elegant gallop across the meadow in a white stallion. You guys make me sick. So damn ignorant...
Check out their draft history the last 5 years. Just a bunch of bums. Hardly anyone sticking the last 5 years. Just Rodney Hood. They traded for Gobert on draft night in 2013 for a second round pick. That's luck... same way we traded for Willy. In 4 years how good is Willy going to be?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
The Jazz didn't have a beautiful text book rebuild. They were trying to get in the playoffs too.... but no lets throw dirt only on the Knicks. Again.... just more pathetic garbage from miserable stans
Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gobert, Rodney Hood, Dante Exum, Alec Burks, Trey Lyles and Raul Neto were all drafted by the Jazz. All were rotation players this season and all- save for Alec Burk (due to injury)- were key rotation players during their playoff run.
In the three seasons Phil Jackson has been with the Knicks, we only have one first round pick (Kristaps Porzingis) and one second round pick....that came at the expense of at least two other second round picks (Willy Hernangomez) to show for it. Therein lies the difference.
You can't sneak Hayward in the last 5 years... dude was drafted in 2010! Alex Burke can't be mentioned if he's been hurt for 2 years. Dante Exum did nothing since he's been drafted. Her was absolutely not a part of any playoff run. Stop lying. Nero isn't in the nba anymore dude stop lying!!! TREY LYLES PLAYED 10 MINUTES IN 2 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!! STOP LYING!!!!
So...how is it that we speak of a Jazz rebuild but exclude all the players they drafted during the rebuild who actually play key roles on the team?
Also, how can Raul Neto be out of the league...if he just played in the past 3 games with the Jazz?
5 years idiot! And I just explained how stupid your list was. You are a liar!
(Fyi Neto okayed 9 games and 60 total minutes... but please carry on)
So if the key players DRAFTED by the Jazz were DRAFTED outside of this 5 year timeframe...wouldn't that suggest their rebuild lasted longer than 5 years? But don't allow me to interrupt you. You're on a roll and totally seem sane right now.
They were a playoff team in Hayward first 2 years genius. Alex Burke was drafted in 2011. We're taking about the 5 years they weren't in the playoffs you numb skull
