Knicks · Donovan Mitchell (page 1)
I'm operating under the impression that Fox, Monk, Isaac and the big names are off the board by the time we draft - THANKS NDOUR. With that in mind, I would definitely advocate Mitchell at #8.
Louisville coach Rick Pitino doesn’t like to hear draft analysts downplay 6-foot-3 Donovan Mitchell as an undersize shooting guard. That won’t be his position in the NBA.“Point guard is his natural position,’’ Pitino told The Post. “But because of Quentin Snider, who’s been around a while as a veteran, I played [Donovan] at the two-guard spot. I see him strictly as a one.”
That versatility, his defensive mindset and character are reasons the Knicks have more than a casual interest in Mitchell — whether at No. 8 or trading down a few notches to later in the lottery.
The Louisville sophomore has local ties. His father, Donovan Mitchell Sr., works for the Mets as director of player relations after a career as a minor-league journeyman who played for Mets manager Terry Collins. The Greenwich, Conn., product, who grew up 25 miles from the Knicks’ Tarrytown complex, is projected in most mock drafts as a late-lottery pick.
Pitino said the NBA Combine in Chicago — where Mitchell participated in skills/measurements — helped his stock. Mitchell, 20, measured in at 6-3 with shoes — 6-1½ without — and recorded a healthy 6-10 wingspan.
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“I think having that wingspan and being the defensive-minded person that I am will definitely help,” Mitchell said at the combine. “Because at Louisville, you don’t step on the floor unless you play defense.”Mitchell, who played a handful of games at point guard when Snider got hurt, averaged 15.6 points, 4.9 rebounds and 2.7 assists last season. Pitino, the ex-Knicks coach, figured Mitchell would be picked in the middle of the first round after Louisville’s 25-9 season ended in the NCAA Tournament’s second round.
Now he’s thinking grander.
“After the combine, we’re hearing he’ll be [a] lower [number] than where we thought because of what he did there in terms of measurements, 40-inch vertical, shot it well,’’ Pitino said. “He led the ACC in steals and showed anticipation skills. If it wasn’t for his shot getting so much better [this season], he’d be mid-to-late, but his shot improved so much, he’ll probably sneak into the lottery.’’
According to an NBA source, the Knicks put Mitchell on their combine interview list, but the league controls the meetings, and he wasn’t sent their way. The Knicks hope to work Mitchell out before the draft on June 22.
After his freshman season, Mitchell asked Pitino what he had to do to make the NBA.
“I said, ‘Look, Donovan, you’re a freak athlete, but if you’re serious about this game, you have to get a jump shot with arc and really develop it,’’’ Pitino said. “I haven’t seen a guy improve his jump shot more than him in my 40 years of coaching. He’s got great arc. He improved it more than any player I’ve coached outside of Billy Donovan.”
Pitino still has an apartment in Manhattan and owns Knicks season tickets. He said jokingly that it has been tougher to give them away in recent seasons. Pitino sees Mitchell fitting in at Phil Jackson’s Garden. The Knicks president has said he’s not looking for the best athlete in the draft but wants a cerebral prospect who can adapt to team play, meaning he’d grasp his sophisticated triangle.
According to Pitino, Mitchell has the qualifications to run the triangle and adds he’s so overly polite, he calls him Eddie Haskell from “Leave It to Beaver.”
“He’s understands everything about the game — a basketball junkie,’’ Pitino said. “He has a high basketball IQ, a high IQ period.’’
yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.
My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
SupremeCommander wrote:Agree but Smith Jr may also have a higher upside and be more ready. The more I look at least year the more I see a guy coming off an ACL... I think he looked pretty explosive and he may have been missing a gear.yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I am pretty convinced our guard choices will be between Smith, NTilikina and Mitchell.
Hard to envision Ball, Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, Monk, Fox or Isaac being there at 8. I just dont buy scenarios that have any of those 7 dropping.
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Agree but Smith Jr may also have a higher upside and be more ready. The more I look at least year the more I see a guy coming off an ACL... I think he looked pretty explosive and he may have been missing a gear.yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I am pretty convinced our guard choices will be between Smith, NTilikina and Mitchell.
Hard to envision Ball, Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, Monk, Fox or Isaac being there at 8. I just dont buy scenarios that have any of those 7 dropping.
Rightly or wrongly I am skeptical of Smith... NCST should've been much, much better with him. They were so bad the headcoach got fired mid season and agreed to stay on until the end of the season... that never happens.
I don't think Frank has done enough on the international stage to warrant a high selection. I dind't think the same way about KP - I was fine with that pick. I just think people are assuming Frank is going to develop just fine... I haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe that.
Mitchell definitely is going to need work. His shot is the biggest area that needs improvement... but he got so much better last year. And I would think that Allan Houston would be able to give him some pointers. Mitchell has alreayd shown that he will put the work into improving.
So when you lay out those options (and I'll through Justin Jackson in there as well) I think Mitchell has a decent floor due to his defense and don't think he'll be a bust... but I also think his ceiling is quite high because if his shot continues to develop he essentially has the complete package
SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
The questions about attitude really do not bother me and I have not heard anything about work ethic. The guy has made major jumps in his ability and his work ethic showed in his ability to comeback from injury and play at a high level. Also, I believe the coach that was fired had some great things to say about him recently which speaks a great deal because he must not think Smith is to blame for getting him canned.
SupremeCommander wrote:Sr. year he sat out from an ACL. One and done at NCST and I read some of those message boards and it was a toxic coaching scene. Most opinions on DSjr are he was pretty much elite and will be a heck of an NBA player. Reading the NCST fan's view on him on the season really shifted my view from yours (I read same stuff you did) to being pumped if this is the kid we take. He may have another gear yet. We will see but I am def high on DSjr.yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
I would take him over Mitchell or Ntilikia right now. Probably over Monk also, but thats 50/50
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Sr. year he sat out from an ACL. One and done at NCST and I read some of those message boards and it was a toxic coaching scene. Most opinions on DSjr are he was pretty much elite and will be a heck of an NBA player. Reading the NCST fan's view on him on the season really shifted my view from yours (I read same stuff you did) to being pumped if this is the kid we take. He may have another gear yet. We will see but I am def high on DSjr.yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
I would take him over Mitchell or Ntilikia right now. Probably over Monk also, but thats 50/50
I'm concerned that in order to maximise Smith Jr he is going to have to be a ball dominant PNR heavy PG. What happens when he has to give up that rock to the pinch post often? There is a lot of variables that can transpire from this dynamic. Especially with Phil's personality, the NY media waiting with pitch forks, and *possibly* Smiths personality. Many will also say to scrap the triangle in order to maximize him. But will he be someone worth sacrificing everything for? Or why did we draft a non triangle guard if we plan on running the triangle. These ball dominant PGs arent winning chips though. The PGs who play on and off ball in a system that shares amount the team has though.
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Sr. year he sat out from an ACL. One and done at NCST and I read some of those message boards and it was a toxic coaching scene. Most opinions on DSjr are he was pretty much elite and will be a heck of an NBA player. Reading the NCST fan's view on him on the season really shifted my view from yours (I read same stuff you did) to being pumped if this is the kid we take. He may have another gear yet. We will see but I am def high on DSjr.yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
I would take him over Mitchell or Ntilikia right now. Probably over Monk also, but thats 50/50
See fish-- it's a difficult decision. The K icks fwlt Jerian Grant was a lottery pick and took him at 21-- and he is a fat bust
newyorknewyork wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Sr. year he sat out from an ACL. One and done at NCST and I read some of those message boards and it was a toxic coaching scene. Most opinions on DSjr are he was pretty much elite and will be a heck of an NBA player. Reading the NCST fan's view on him on the season really shifted my view from yours (I read same stuff you did) to being pumped if this is the kid we take. He may have another gear yet. We will see but I am def high on DSjr.yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
I would take him over Mitchell or Ntilikia right now. Probably over Monk also, but thats 50/50I'm concerned that in order to maximise Smith Jr he is going to have to be a ball dominant PNR heavy PG. What happens when he has to give up that rock to the pinch post often? There is a lot of variables that can transpire from this dynamic. Especially with Phil's personality, the NY media waiting with pitch forks, and *possibly* Smiths personality. Many will also say to scrap the triangle in order to maximize him. But will he be someone worth sacrificing everything for? Or why did we draft a non triangle guard if we plan on running the triangle. These ball dominant PGs arent winning chips though. The PGs who play on and off ball in a system that shares amount the team has though.
Kyrie says hello. Also, I doubt the triangle will be an issue in a few years. Plus, his athleticism and jumper can be molded to play off the ball.
yellowboy90 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Sr. year he sat out from an ACL. One and done at NCST and I read some of those message boards and it was a toxic coaching scene. Most opinions on DSjr are he was pretty much elite and will be a heck of an NBA player. Reading the NCST fan's view on him on the season really shifted my view from yours (I read same stuff you did) to being pumped if this is the kid we take. He may have another gear yet. We will see but I am def high on DSjr.yellowboy90 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:If he is apart of the 13th and Juan Hernangomez for the 8th pick package then okay I guess but if he gets picked at 8 with Isaac, Smith jr, or Tatum on the board then no way. His 2pt fg% is very concerning. He would have to really work on his shooting or else he will be a Terry Rozier?Marcus Smart instead of an Avery Bradley.My assumption is Isaac and Tatum will be gone by our selection. I think Smith Jr. is a bigger roll of the dice than Mitchell
I don't see how he is a bigger role of the dice when he is better than Mitchell in a lot of categories while being younger and coming off an injury. Plus, he has a clear position. I think you can find a Mitchell type later in the draft and I am not so sure that you will find another Smith jr.
nbadraft.net opens his weaknesses with "Questions about attitude, focus and desire have surrounded Smith since his high school days." When you hear stuff like that and then see how shitty NCST was last year, I would call that a big red flag.
Whereas a guy like Mitchell has no questions about his attitude or work ethic, has a PF wingspan, and could jump out of MSG
I would take him over Mitchell or Ntilikia right now. Probably over Monk also, but thats 50/50I'm concerned that in order to maximise Smith Jr he is going to have to be a ball dominant PNR heavy PG. What happens when he has to give up that rock to the pinch post often? There is a lot of variables that can transpire from this dynamic. Especially with Phil's personality, the NY media waiting with pitch forks, and *possibly* Smiths personality. Many will also say to scrap the triangle in order to maximize him. But will he be someone worth sacrificing everything for? Or why did we draft a non triangle guard if we plan on running the triangle. These ball dominant PGs arent winning chips though. The PGs who play on and off ball in a system that shares amount the team has though.
Kyrie says hello. Also, I doubt the triangle will be an issue in a few years. Plus, his athleticism and jumper can be molded to play off the ball.
Kyrie plays off the ball a ton with success and had a mean jumper coming out of College. LeBron makes anything work though.
dacash wrote:this is where a team like portland comes into play, if something healthy can be done with them
EXACTLY. They're prime target for sure. They're just sitting on picks they don't need or want to use.
Perhaps the most appealing part of Mitchell's profile, particularly early on in his career, lies on the defensive end. Two years under Rick Pitino has benefited him greatly in this regard, as he's emerged as a multi-positional stopper who a coach can sic on point guards, shooting guards and even some small forwards and expect results. Mitchell has outstanding physical tools to get the job done, with his elite length, chiseled frame and quick feet, but also the mentality, as he's a highly competitive guy who is willing to pick up full court, get on the floor for loose balls, and generally make life difficult for opposing players. Mitchell has outstanding instincts off the ball, as evidenced by his 2.6 steals per-40 (#1 among all DX Top-100 prospects). Despite not possessing great height, his 6'10 wingspan is very difficult for opposing guards to shoot over, and he does a great job of getting underneath defenders, sliding his feet and using his strength to contain the ball.
nixluva wrote:dacash wrote:this is where a team like portland comes into play, if something healthy can be done with themEXACTLY. They're prime target for sure. They're just sitting on picks they don't need or want to use.
thing is what do we have that they want or need?
unless we can take one of their over priced guys away with a pick or two but for whom?