Knicks · What will the Knicks do at the PG position?? (page 2)
reub wrote:fwk00 wrote:I'm a Monte Morris fan but I get the Mason admiration as well.Will he still be there at pick #44? He might be because of his age. He's 23.
Well, there's that. He will probably drop through just because he put his time in.
For Phil and co., the upside is that you're drafting a mature, well-known asset. Chances are he gets up to speed sooner. The fact that his attitude about defense perfectly complements Baker and Randle makes that a nice fit. And assuming the Knicks pick up Rubio, the position is deep and flexible - lots of competent guards for Horny to deploy.
AND, as the astute observe, Knicks are free to draft BPA at 8 without deferring to need-first.
And I don't get hung up on Morris. There are five or six second-rounders for scouting to sort out. And you absolutely know one or two of them will be stars that no one anticipated.
Sinix wrote:Well the Knicks have a lot of options.Draft one at 8.
Re-sign Rose if you can get him on a good short deal.
Trade for Rubio. Or maybe trade for Dunn if they've given up on him.
Or my personal favorite, trade KP in some of package deal that lands the #1 pick and draft Fultz. Start building with Fultz, WHG, #8 pick and what ever draft picks you can get for Melo.
Well, it looks like a lot of options but they are options that are tightly coupled to potential trades. Two weeks into June will unlock a number of trade options. Once those are clarified, it becomes a game of dominoes.
My guess is that Knicks draft 4 players - 8, one in the teens, and their two second-rounders.
Who is on the table in potential Melo trades makes a big difference. I am NOT an Austin Rivers fan - my nightmare scenario.
fwk00 wrote:Sinix wrote:Well the Knicks have a lot of options.Draft one at 8.
Re-sign Rose if you can get him on a good short deal.
Trade for Rubio. Or maybe trade for Dunn if they've given up on him.
Or my personal favorite, trade KP in some of package deal that lands the #1 pick and draft Fultz. Start building with Fultz, WHG, #8 pick and what ever draft picks you can get for Melo.Well, it looks like a lot of options but they are options that are tightly coupled to potential trades. Two weeks into June will unlock a number of trade options. Once those are clarified, it becomes a game of dominoes.
My guess is that Knicks draft 4 players - 8, one in the teens, and their two second-rounders.
Who is on the table in potential Melo trades makes a big difference. I am NOT an Austin Rivers fan - my nightmare scenario.
I don't know what they will get for Carmelo but I really don't think the Clippers deal is going to happen.
You don't hear about trades stalling for as long as that scenario ever happening. The rumors they want a PJ Tucker or Simmons makes me feel secure in that we're not going to max Redick in a Sign and Trade.
Griffin would be a wildcard I could understand trading for though I wouldn't advocate it. A third party would have to be involved with some useful assets.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-blake-griffin-20170529-story.html
PhilinLA wrote:He was what was left of a great point guard. Had we had him earlier, many things would have been different.
If we could of given Melo a legit PG from the beginning every season could of been different.
newyorker4ever wrote:PhilinLA wrote:He was what was left of a great point guard. Had we had him earlier, many things would have been different.If we could of given Melo a legit PG from the beginning every season could of been different.
The question is WHO? There were only a very few opportunities to grab a legit PG that would've made a real difference. It's just something that wasn't in the cards. Now they will have a shot to draft a legit PG but for KP and not for Melo. Whether Melo stays or goes makes no difference. This is all about KP now. Melo is a side issue and not the focus of the team's building anymore.
IMO people are too worried about what the return on Melo will be. That's not the most important thing IMO. The last 3 years Melo has had an Offensive Rating of 106, 107 and 108. He's had a Defensive Rating of 110, 107 and 113. He's had a WS/48 of .097, .121 and .089. He'll likely be a bit better on a winning roster with tons of support. For the Knicks tho? He's not able to carry a team with highly efficient production or leadership.
newyorker4ever wrote:PhilinLA wrote:He was what was left of a great point guard. Had we had him earlier, many things would have been different.
If we could of given Melo a legit PG from the beginning every season could of been different.
It really wouldn't matter. Sadly, it would just not matter.
A PG is only effective if the other four players on the court work hard to move well and efficiently off the ball. Also a traditional PG is only effective when he is the only true ball dominant player on the court.
Phil Jackson should have corrected himself. Melo does hold the ball too long and too much... FOR A GUY WHO DOESN'T TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RUN THE OFFENSE.
This is one issue I'll give LeBron James credit for, even if I think he's pretty much a gigantic idiot protected by Nike and the league. He wants the ball in his hands. But he understands that he also has the responsibility to run the offense.
Running an offense is like hosting a party or a BBQ. You have to make sure everyone has a good time. You have to make sure everyone gets something to eat and drink. If there is a dispute, you have to regulate it. If someone drinks too much, it's on you that they don't jump in their SUV and plow down a bunch of preschoolers. It's work and responsibility, and the focus can't be on you having a good time, the focus on you managing the expectations of your guests.
Melo wants the ball in his hands, fine. He wants to dominate the ball, fine. He wants to dribble forever, fine. Just run the offense if you do all that crap. Except he doesn't run the offense. Because he doesn't care. It's all about him. He doesn't care about his team mates, or winning or sacrificing for the greater good of the team concept.
A leader creates more answers than questions. A leader considers what is needed not just what he wants himself. A leader understands he gets all the credit, but he also must shoulder the blame and responsibility.
There's a kid who cheats on a test. Goes through tons of hoops and strategies and techniques to cheat on a test. His instructor comes to him and says, this is stupid, you WORKED HARDER TO CHEAT THAN TO JUST STUDY FOR THE DAMN test. This is Melo, the blithering shotjacking idiot. He's working overdrive to come up with excuses and have Leon Rose jam up article and hit piece after hit pieces to save his public perception and his stupid branding, when it would just be alot less work to JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME THE RIGHT WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Melo is a test case that talent just is not enough. At some point, you actually have to give a damn. You have to accept that there are actual responsibilities in place when you want something, when you say you need something, it can't be all about you, all the time.
Yes, it's everyone elses fault Melo can't come to terms with what 10-11 year old children are taught every single day about responsibility. Think about that, there is some 11 year old in Brooklyn who can figure this part out about responsibility but Melo cannot. If you can't come to terms with lessons that even children get, whose fault is that?
Re-sign Rose
Work with Baker on his 3 point shot
EnySpree wrote:Point guards rarely stay on the same team. Tony Parker is rare. Even Chris Paul has changed adresses a few times.And why are we forgetting Mark Jackson, Rod Strickland, Mo Cheeks, Billups, Marbury.... we've had plenty of point guards come through. Problem is we've had bad teams and even worse management behind them.
Too much focus is on the point guard. We haven't had a good one since Raymond Felton. That was only a couple seasons ago. We're rebuilding. We need and we will probavly get new everything. We have to accumulate enough assets to to put us in position to make moves if need be. Everybody be cool
Are you out of your mind? All those PGs you listed were either insane, terrible and/or past their prime AND the only good ones (Jackson, Strickland) were here for about five minutes. Great trade there Bianchi!!
The knicks haven't had good to great sustained pg play here in 35 years or longer. It's about damn the knicks found a long term solution. Devote resources!!!
The pg postition is as deep and talented in NBA history and the knicks have and have had crap at the position. We've had every other position in spades at times. Never pg. never.
newyorker4ever wrote:If i had my choice out of who i'd like to see as our starting PG next season and i'm talking about reasonable not fiction like saying S.Curry then one of my top choices would be to sign G.Hill. He's one of the best PG's in the league at playing both sides of the ball and really good on defense. I have no idea what Phil is gonna do cause he's so damn unpredictable but he's gonna do something at the PG position whether that be with our lottery pick or that be a 2nd round pick or that be trading for another 1st round pick or that be in free agency but he's not gonna have R.Baker or C.Randle as our starting PG next season.
GHill would be awesome but I just don't think he is realistic. Just turned 31. And if Gordon stays on team, why would he want to go from Utah to Knicks?
Has Phil decided if he wants to build around KP or try to win in the short term? I think that question (and the outcome of this season) has been answered this past year for us.
martin wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:If i had my choice out of who i'd like to see as our starting PG next season and i'm talking about reasonable not fiction like saying S.Curry then one of my top choices would be to sign G.Hill. He's one of the best PG's in the league at playing both sides of the ball and really good on defense. I have no idea what Phil is gonna do cause he's so damn unpredictable but he's gonna do something at the PG position whether that be with our lottery pick or that be a 2nd round pick or that be trading for another 1st round pick or that be in free agency but he's not gonna have R.Baker or C.Randle as our starting PG next season.GHill would be awesome but I just don't think he is realistic. Just turned 31. And if Gordon stays on team, why would he want to go from Utah to Knicks?
Has Phil decided if he wants to build around KP or try to win in the short term? I think that question (and the outcome of this season) has been answered this past year for us.
I think Phil believes in competitive rebuilding not tanking.
Which means he wants to get young players who have a winning attitude and are focused on winning.
Which is why he likes Baker, because Baker was a rookie but he played with the right manner. At season's end, I thought the way Baker, CLee and Willy played was fantastic.
Whomever we draft at 8, I think it is likely to be a guard, Monk, Dennis Smith or Ntilikina. We need to allow that 8th pick to start right away alongside Willy, KP and maybe even Baker. That gives us some continuity from last season and also 4 starters who are younger players who can keep improving together, The way we closed out was solid. I don't want to see Willy and Ron lose starting spots. KP needs to step up and back up his antics. He wants to act like a star that demands more, he needs to also play like one, which he is fully capable of. So that's 4 starters there, and then you have Melo ... the real conundrum.
If Melo can fetch a young 3, some capspace and/or draft picks, I do that deal. If not, I don't see a major issue in keeping him. He will be a contract year, and he will play well. With KP and Melo, we could have two all-stars next year if Melo is healthy and KP steps up like he should. Don't confuse systems or style of play. From day 1, run the Triangle. Work on defense. There won't be confusion next year (I hope, I think Phil has made that clear).
Lets see what happens, but I'm cautiously optimistic that if Phil does what he did in 2015-16, the team will be both developing young players and also surprising people in how competitive they are next year. I do prefer to see Melo traded, but only if we get a Jae Crowder/draft pick or Winslow/14th pick (Plus capspace) type of package.
doomed wrote:EnySpree wrote:Point guards rarely stay on the same team. Tony Parker is rare. Even Chris Paul has changed adresses a few times.And why are we forgetting Mark Jackson, Rod Strickland, Mo Cheeks, Billups, Marbury.... we've had plenty of point guards come through. Problem is we've had bad teams and even worse management behind them.
Too much focus is on the point guard. We haven't had a good one since Raymond Felton. That was only a couple seasons ago. We're rebuilding. We need and we will probavly get new everything. We have to accumulate enough assets to to put us in position to make moves if need be. Everybody be cool
Are you out of your mind? All those PGs you listed were either insane, terrible and/or past their prime AND the only good ones (Jackson, Strickland) were here for about five minutes. Great trade there Bianchi!!
The knicks haven't had good to great sustained pg play here in 35 years or longer. It's about damn the knicks found a long term solution. Devote resources!!!
The pg postition is as deep and talented in NBA history and the knicks have and have had crap at the position. We've had every other position in spades at times. Never pg. never.
The answer to this is to read my post again.
nyknickzingis wrote:martin wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:If i had my choice out of who i'd like to see as our starting PG next season and i'm talking about reasonable not fiction like saying S.Curry then one of my top choices would be to sign G.Hill. He's one of the best PG's in the league at playing both sides of the ball and really good on defense. I have no idea what Phil is gonna do cause he's so damn unpredictable but he's gonna do something at the PG position whether that be with our lottery pick or that be a 2nd round pick or that be trading for another 1st round pick or that be in free agency but he's not gonna have R.Baker or C.Randle as our starting PG next season.GHill would be awesome but I just don't think he is realistic. Just turned 31. And if Gordon stays on team, why would he want to go from Utah to Knicks?
Has Phil decided if he wants to build around KP or try to win in the short term? I think that question (and the outcome of this season) has been answered this past year for us.
I think Phil believes in competitive rebuilding not tanking.
Which means he wants to get young players who have a winning attitude and are focused on winning.Which is why he likes Baker, because Baker was a rookie but he played with the right manner. At season's end, I thought the way Baker, CLee and Willy played was fantastic.
Whomever we draft at 8, I think it is likely to be a guard, Monk, Dennis Smith or Ntilikina. We need to allow that 8th pick to start right away alongside Willy, KP and maybe even Baker. That gives us some continuity from last season and also 4 starters who are younger players who can keep improving together, The way we closed out was solid. I don't want to see Willy and Ron lose starting spots. KP needs to step up and back up his antics. He wants to act like a star that demands more, he needs to also play like one, which he is fully capable of. So that's 4 starters there, and then you have Melo ... the real conundrum.
If Melo can fetch a young 3, some capspace and/or draft picks, I do that deal. If not, I don't see a major issue in keeping him. He will be a contract year, and he will play well. With KP and Melo, we could have two all-stars next year if Melo is healthy and KP steps up like he should. Don't confuse systems or style of play. From day 1, run the Triangle. Work on defense. There won't be confusion next year (I hope, I think Phil has made that clear).
Lets see what happens, but I'm cautiously optimistic that if Phil does what he did in 2015-16, the team will be both developing young players and also surprising people in how competitive they are next year. I do prefer to see Melo traded, but only if we get a Jae Crowder/draft pick or Winslow/14th pick (Plus capspace) type of package.
oh yeah, 100%