Knicks · what can we give the pistons? (page 2)

wargames wrote:
Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Honestly, I just don't see how this trade helps the Pistons at all. Yes, they want and need some long range gunners, but this just doesn't operate IMHO as the best option out of all possible options if they were willing to move those assets in place to someone and somewhere.

Lance Thomas is a D League Wet Dream ( i.e. you can be a fringe 13th-15th man and get a long term contract for basically being an energy guy) His contract honestly just doesn't make a whole ton of sense considering the current NBA marketplace and I'm not quite sure he carries the trade value that some here believe he does.

Redick is old and will want a payday/last big contract deal and I just don't see a team giving it to him. This kind of trade means hes going to get it.

Austin Rivers makes enough where they would be forced to start him, and honestly Ish Smith is just better for cheaper.

The Pistons do want to move Reggie Jackson and his contract though. There might be some kind of trade involving Jackson as a contract dump, although he's worn out his welcome everywhere he's gone. Melo and him might stab each other to death in the locker room over who is going to get the ball more ( who are we kidding, for Melo to fight in the locker room would mean he actually cares, and sadly, Melo could give a rats ass about our beloved Knicks)

NardDogNation wrote:How about this...

PHO Trades: Brandon Knight, Tyler Ulis and the 32nd pick
PHO Recieves: 44th pick, 58th pick, NYKs 2019 2nd round pick (via CLE), $15 million of cap space and $3 million cash (via NYK)

DET Trades: the 12th pick
DET Recieves: Courtney Lee, Mindaugas Kuzminskaus, Tyler Ulis and the 32nd pick

NYK Trades: Courtney Lee, Mindaugas Kuzminskaus, the 44th pick, the 58th pick, 2019 2nd round pick (via CLE) a $15 million trade exception (via our impending cap space) and $3 million cash
NYK Recieves: Brandon Knight and the 12th pick

Gotta give you credit, this isn't Win/Lose like most trades proposed on this forum. It's not Win/Win and it's not Lose/Lose ( i.e. a challenge trade) but it's got multiple layers coming from it.

Might need Kyle O'Quinn involved somehow, which would change some of the money factors, but given certain spin for each franchise, this looks interesting. It does reflect that the Knicks might not be able to sign anyone with their cap space worth signing and a trade might be the best option for using the current open cap flexibility. A lot of this would ride on how things shake out in Phoenix and if Detroit needs to go to Plan D late in the process.

Would need certain things to fall into place, I think Detroit also might need a little more, but entirely interesting, that's for sure.

TripleThreat wrote:

wargames wrote:
Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Honestly, I just don't see how this trade helps the Pistons at all. Yes, they want and need some long range gunners, but this just doesn't operate IMHO as the best option out of all possible options if they were willing to move those assets in place to someone and somewhere.

Lance Thomas is a D League Wet Dream ( i.e. you can be a fringe 13th-15th man and get a long term contract for basically being an energy guy) His contract honestly just doesn't make a whole ton of sense considering the current NBA marketplace and I'm not quite sure he carries the trade value that some here believe he does.

Redick is old and will want a payday/last big contract deal and I just don't see a team giving it to him. This kind of trade means hes going to get it.

Austin Rivers makes enough where they would be forced to start him, and honestly Ish Smith is just better for cheaper.

The Pistons do want to move Reggie Jackson and his contract though. There might be some kind of trade involving Jackson as a contract dump, although he's worn out his welcome everywhere he's gone. Melo and him might stab each other to death in the locker room over who is going to get the ball more ( who are we kidding, for Melo to fight in the locker room would mean he actually cares, and sadly, Melo could give a rats ass about our beloved Knicks)

Detroit doesn't really value Reggie or Stanley. Both have been benched for bad play and moving Reggie now makes sense in case he never gets back his full explosion. Stanley took a step back last year and was tied to trade rumors that made it seem his value was low too.

This trade gives Detroit a vet bench that is good at 3 pt shootings and won't be bad at defense. Lance had a injury that players recover from by resting (which he got). Austin Could potentially challenge Ish for being a starter. Also Stan Van Gundy and Redick are good friends, that could factor in him being willing to overpay. Basically those 3 players let Van Gundy run his system all game.

However there is a situation where they could just send out Reggie and #12 and take Redick and Austin Back.

Knicks
Rick Rubio
2017 pick #12
Clippers 2021 pick

Clippers
Anthony
Tyrus Jones

Wolves
Reggie Jackson
Courtney Lee

Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick

Though it doesn't send back a SF to get Melo's minutes......

TripleThreat wrote:

wargames wrote:
Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Honestly, I just don't see how this trade helps the Pistons at all. Yes, they want and need some long range gunners, but this just doesn't operate IMHO as the best option out of all possible options if they were willing to move those assets in place to someone and somewhere.

Lance Thomas is a D League Wet Dream ( i.e. you can be a fringe 13th-15th man and get a long term contract for basically being an energy guy) His contract honestly just doesn't make a whole ton of sense considering the current NBA marketplace and I'm not quite sure he carries the trade value that some here believe he does.

Redick is old and will want a payday/last big contract deal and I just don't see a team giving it to him. This kind of trade means hes going to get it.

Austin Rivers makes enough where they would be forced to start him, and honestly Ish Smith is just better for cheaper.

The Pistons do want to move Reggie Jackson and his contract though. There might be some kind of trade involving Jackson as a contract dump, although he's worn out his welcome everywhere he's gone. Melo and him might stab each other to death in the locker room over who is going to get the ball more ( who are we kidding, for Melo to fight in the locker room would mean he actually cares, and sadly, Melo could give a rats ass about our beloved Knicks)

heyyyyyy melo wants to be here lol

Did he get hurt or were flaws in his game exposed?

Chandler wrote:Serious question. Whatever happened to Stanley Johnson. Iirc he had a great summer league and start of the season

Did he get hurt or were flaws in his game exposed?

you know the knicks dont develop young players, oh wait
i think they just dont know his fit he might be a large two guard or a small forward but his offense is still a ways off

newyorknewyork wrote:They can probably get more than Lee for #12 in this draft. I would dangle Lee & Kuz though. Its worth a shot.

They can absolutely get a better player than C.Lee for the #12 pick and can get better than C.Lee and Kuz as well and they already have S.Johnson and the word is they'll match any offer KCP gets as well so they're good at SG.

wargames wrote:Got most of below from another forum but it makes sense. Grand scheme of things it's pretty clear a third maybe even a 4th team will be needed to get Melo to the Clippers. Why not work with Mediocre teams to shake up each other's roster and hope for an improvement.

There is actually potential for a decent 4 team trade between the Knicks, Pistons, Wolves, and the Clippers if this expanded into a multi piece Melo trade.

I went to the trade machine and those 4 teams all have enough movable pieces that I could see it happening. Here is an example of one scenario that isn't too far fetched

Knicks
Rick Rubio
Stanley Johnson
2017 pick #12
Clippers 2021 pick

Clippers
Anthony
Tyrus Jones

Wolves
Reggie Jackson
Courtney Lee

Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Knicks do it to go more pass first and younger (and to tank). Plus that is actually a more than decent haul for Melo, lee, and Lance Thomas at this point.

Clippers do it for Anthony and get a backup PG behind CP3 to replace losing Austin Rivers.

Wolves do it because Reggie Jackson has a Rose-lite type game (also Reggie potentially is the best PG in this trade if healthy) and Courtney Lee is a defensive SG who lets them play Lavine as a 6th man which is what they need to do if they want to win games.

Detroit gets 3 players who in theory can shoot the 3 at a decent clip to put around Drummond (SVG's system). With Redick being a guy who came up and won under SVG. Also SVG loved Lance's game a season ago and if healthy he could be that defender on the bench.

Hell this could of been the trade before the draft, the rumor was Phil didn't do it because he wanted a pick for this year from the Wolves. Maybe #12 gets it done. You could even potentially send #12 to the wolves and move up to pick #7 since this is all one large deal.

So for Melo, C.Lee and L.Thomas we get back R.Rubio, S.Johnson, A lottery pick in this draft at #12 and a future 1st round pick in 2021. If you're gonna come up with a 4 team trade at least make it a fair one where the Knicks aren't coming away a huge winner cause we all know the Knicks won't win a trade as big as that. I do believe and have been saying that it would be best for the Knicks to be able to get any Melo trade to have more than just one other team involved cause there's no way we come out a winner if it's just a trade between us and one other team especially if that team is the Clips. We need a team like Boston or Wash to be the 3rd team cause they have a lot of young talent or draft picks we could get back.

wargames wrote:Got most of below from another forum but it makes sense. Grand scheme of things it's pretty clear a third maybe even a 4th team will be needed to get Melo to the Clippers. Why not work with Mediocre teams to shake up each other's roster and hope for an improvement.

There is actually potential for a decent 4 team trade between the Knicks, Pistons, Wolves, and the Clippers if this expanded into a multi piece Melo trade.

I went to the trade machine and those 4 teams all have enough movable pieces that I could see it happening. Here is an example of one scenario that isn't too far fetched

Knicks
Rick Rubio
Stanley Johnson
2017 pick #12
Clippers 2021 pick

Clippers
Anthony
Tyrus Jones

Wolves
Reggie Jackson
Courtney Lee

Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Knicks do it to go more pass first and younger (and to tank). Plus that is actually a more than decent haul for Melo, lee, and Lance Thomas at this point.

Clippers do it for Anthony and get a backup PG behind CP3 to replace losing Austin Rivers.

Wolves do it because Reggie Jackson has a Rose-lite type game (also Reggie potentially is the best PG in this trade if healthy) and Courtney Lee is a defensive SG who lets them play Lavine as a 6th man which is what they need to do if they want to win games.

Detroit gets 3 players who in theory can shoot the 3 at a decent clip to put around Drummond (SVG's system). With Redick being a guy who came up and won under SVG. Also SVG loved Lance's game a season ago and if healthy he could be that defender on the bench.

Hell this could of been the trade before the draft, the rumor was Phil didn't do it because he wanted a pick for this year from the Wolves. Maybe #12 gets it done. You could even potentially send #12 to the wolves and move up to pick #7 since this is all one large deal.

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:Got most of below from another forum but it makes sense. Grand scheme of things it's pretty clear a third maybe even a 4th team will be needed to get Melo to the Clippers. Why not work with Mediocre teams to shake up each other's roster and hope for an improvement.

There is actually potential for a decent 4 team trade between the Knicks, Pistons, Wolves, and the Clippers if this expanded into a multi piece Melo trade.

I went to the trade machine and those 4 teams all have enough movable pieces that I could see it happening. Here is an example of one scenario that isn't too far fetched

Knicks
Rick Rubio
Stanley Johnson
2017 pick #12
Clippers 2021 pick

Clippers
Anthony
Tyrus Jones

Wolves
Reggie Jackson
Courtney Lee

Detroit
Austin Rivers
JJ Redick
Lance Thomas

Knicks do it to go more pass first and younger (and to tank). Plus that is actually a more than decent haul for Melo, lee, and Lance Thomas at this point.

Clippers do it for Anthony and get a backup PG behind CP3 to replace losing Austin Rivers.

Wolves do it because Reggie Jackson has a Rose-lite type game (also Reggie potentially is the best PG in this trade if healthy) and Courtney Lee is a defensive SG who lets them play Lavine as a 6th man which is what they need to do if they want to win games.

Detroit gets 3 players who in theory can shoot the 3 at a decent clip to put around Drummond (SVG's system). With Redick being a guy who came up and won under SVG. Also SVG loved Lance's game a season ago and if healthy he could be that defender on the bench.

Hell this could of been the trade before the draft, the rumor was Phil didn't do it because he wanted a pick for this year from the Wolves. Maybe #12 gets it done. You could even potentially send #12 to the wolves and move up to pick #7 since this is all one large deal.

So for Melo, C.Lee and L.Thomas we get back R.Rubio, S.Johnson, A lottery pick in this draft at #12 and a future 1st round pick in 2021. If you're gonna come up with a 4 team trade at least make it a fair one where the Knicks aren't coming away a huge winner cause we all know the Knicks won't win a trade as big as that. I do believe and have been saying that it would be best for the Knicks to be able to get any Melo trade to have more than just one other team involved cause there's no way we come out a winner if it's just a trade between us and one other team especially if that team is the Clips. We need a team like Boston or Wash to be the 3rd team cause they have a lot of young talent or draft picks we could get back.

Of all the many scenarios here we've actually been tied to these 3 teams in trade conversations.

Allow me the opportunity to show why this trade isn't automatically a win for the Knicks, but fair for everyone.

First you can make a good argument that Melo and Lee are the two best players in the trade if Reggie isn't 100%. Rubio and Stanley aren't going to make us a better team out the gate. But maybe in a few years they could work for NY. A guaranteed late lottery pick, a bad shooting PG, a RAW player in Johnson, and a way off future pick is not a monster return.

The Clippers are giving away there bench and a future 2021 pick to go for a championship. There are no guarantees that pick is a lottery pick. The Clippers could be a great team in 2021.

Detroit benched both Reggie and Stanley because they both don't fit that team at all. What they need is 3 pt shooting and depth and this trade gives them that

Rubio hates the Wolves, we are rumored to think we can get him and honestly Lee by himself could potentially do it. Adding Reggie saves them the trouble of signing Rose. Plus it's not like they were winning with Rubio. They had the same record as the Knicks even after he starting to play well

So to summarize......

Knicks get a RAW youth and a pass first PG in Rubio and 2 ok picks. Basically with Melo gone the team reboots completely around the Triangle and KP. This could help that rebuild. How much it's too early to say.

Clippers get Melo for a big four and the slim chance they can take the Warriors out. Melo goes to one of his choice cities.

Detroit gets a bench based around 3 pt shooters and a Van Gundy favorite Redick. Detroit really has no bench right now, just look at their roster outside of starters. Those three Fix that issue and increase their chance of being a playoff team. Also the Pistons said they would trade pick #12 for veteran player help. Not a "star" but a Veteran player. This trade does that.

Wolves get arguably the second and third best players in the trade in Lee and Reggie. If Reggie is healthy. Also they need a SG who defends but doesn't need heavy touches (like Lee) so they can turn their volume scoring SG Levine into a 6th man. This trade really helps their rotation.

Also Dwight was a 4 team trade to get him to one of the few teams he let known he would re-up with. Melo and his NTC is relatively similar in that the Knicks might have to orchestrate a complicated multi team deal to get anything worth their time for Melo.