Knicks · Forget offense this year, lets play some defense. (page 1)

Right now I'd pencil in

O'Quinn (Unless Willy has improved his D significantly)
Porzingis
Thomas
Holiday (He's a good 3nD guy we should keep him)
Ntilikina

as starters.

We may not score enough points to be very good. With Nti and KP as the top 2 shot creators we will not be very good but we have to rely on the system and trust the team to play together to make better shots happen. KP has to be put an expectation on him where he needs to bring it EVERY night and not be allowed to get away with stupid dumb foul infested games.
But we'll defend with a lineup like that. Energy. Effort. Teamwork.
Get offense off the bench with Willy coming in for either KP or KOQ. Bring Lee in for Holiday or Thomas. That's two bench guys that give you 10-12 points when given minutees, maybe more. We should be ok with trading Melo for some good bench players on short contracts. And ofcourse get some draft picks (one first and one second will do). Make the bench deep and strong. Having Willy and Lee off the bench is a strong start.

I know there's not alot of hope around Knicks but I am happy if we can develop KP, Willy and Nti this next year and also show we are a better defensive team. With the O'Quinn, Thomas, KP, Nti, Holiday- that's an active group that has length, speed, and a desire to play defense.

Lets focus on D. We have 2 players that are active high motor guys that can defend in KP and Nti. KP is a foul machine at times but he has all the tools to be a great defender. I'm confident if you play guys like O'Quinn, Thomas, Holiday around KP and Nti it will be a group that works hard on both ends. Right culture for Nti and KP to develop. Whether we like it or not, we drafted the YOUNGEST player in the draft and we have a 7'3 marvel. Lets allow them to develop. Results be damned.

nyknickzingis wrote:Right now I'd pencil in

O'Quinn (Unless Willy has improved his D significantly)
Porzingis
Thomas
Holiday (He's a good 3nD guy we should keep him)
Ntilikina

as starters.

We may not score enough points to be very good. With Nti and KP as the top 2 shot creators we will not be very good but we have to rely on the system and trust the team to play together to make better shots happen. KP has to be put an expectation on him where he needs to bring it EVERY night and not be allowed to get away with stupid dumb foul infested games.
But we'll defend with a lineup like that. Energy. Effort. Teamwork.
Get offense off the bench with Willy coming in for either KP or KOQ. Bring Lee in for Holiday or Thomas. That's two bench guys that give you 10-12 points when given minutees, maybe more. We should be ok with trading Melo for some good bench players on short contracts. And ofcourse get some draft picks (one first and one second will do). Make the bench deep and strong. Having Willy and Lee off the bench is a strong start.

I know there's not alot of hope around Knicks but I am happy if we can develop KP, Willy and Nti this next year and also show we are a better defensive team. With the O'Quinn, Thomas, KP, Nti, Holiday- that's an active group that has length, speed, and a desire to play defense.

Lets focus on D. We have 2 players that are active high motor guys that can defend in KP and Nti. KP is a foul machine at times but he has all the tools to be a great defender. I'm confident if you play guys like O'Quinn, Thomas, Holiday around KP and Nti it will be a group that works hard on both ends. Right culture for Nti and KP to develop. Whether we like it or not, we drafted the YOUNGEST player in the draft and we have a 7'3 marvel. Lets allow them to develop. Results be damned.

In 1962 Nikita Khrushchev said that in 20 years Soviet people will leave in Communism..
Patience man... patience...

Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

For once I'll agree with you Jrod -- that's an absolute lottery team. I'd rather keep melo an added Bledsoe Jackson Chris

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

So rather than talk about Melo's defense you mention Kuz and Baker's deficiencies? Are those the type of players you consider Melo's peers?

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

So rather than talk about Melo's defense you mention Kuz and Baker's deficiencies? Are those the type of players you consider Melo's peers?

He said "if the team plays good defense". Peers? No, they just happen to be on the team. Trying to talk basketball here, sorry.

And I specifically mentioned your personal antichrist is dead weight on D. Try and keep up, fish.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

So rather than talk about Melo's defense you mention Kuz and Baker's deficiencies? Are those the type of players you consider Melo's peers?

He said "if the team plays good defense". Peers? No, they just happen to be on the team. Trying to talk basketball here, sorry.

And I specifically mentioned your personal antichrist is dead weight on D. Try and keep up, fish.

my bad.

fwiw Im not anti antichrist. Always loved the rotties in the omen movies and Melo isnt bad. (except on D)

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

So rather than talk about Melo's defense you mention Kuz and Baker's deficiencies? Are those the type of players you consider Melo's peers?

He said "if the team plays good defense". Peers? No, they just happen to be on the team. Trying to talk basketball here, sorry.

And I specifically mentioned your personal antichrist is dead weight on D. Try and keep up, fish.

my bad.

fwiw Im not anti antichrist. Always loved the rotties in the omen movies and Melo isnt bad. (except on D)

Stop making me laugh.
You're supposed to be busy channeling tkf/dk7th and making your head spin all the way around while screaming "fuhuck me like a martyr, Phil!"

I'm definitely pointing a finger at Melo in terms of D along with other Vets that didn't get the job done defensively.
First off PG/SG is MUCH harder to defend than SF/PF. Plus a kid like Baker had to learn a new position as a rookie facing the quickest players in the world fighting over screens!!!

Here are the Knicks players rank in the League in Defensive Real Plus Minus:

ESPN
2016-17 Real Plus-Minus
RK	NAME	                TEAM	GP	MPG	ORPM	DRPM	RPM	WINS
52	LeBron James, SF	CLE	74	37.8	6.49	1.93	8.42	20.43
53	Kristaps Porzingis, PF	NY	66	32.8	-0.31	1.90	1.59	6.54
94	Joakim Noah, C	        NY	46	22.1	-2.23	1.17	-1.06	1.32
97	Kyle O'Quinn, C	        NY	79	15.6	-1.28	1.16	-0.12	2.31
142	Marshall Plumlee, C	NY	21	8.1	-1.75	0.65	-1.10	0.22
173	Willy Hernangomez, C	NY	72	18.4	-0.75	0.40	-0.35	2.37
183	Sasha Vujacic, SG	NY	42	9.7	-2.35	0.26	-2.09	0.27
188	Justin Holiday, SG	NY	82	20.0	-0.58	0.25	-0.33	2.87
264	Maurice Ndour, SF	NY	32	10.3	-1.94	-0.37	-2.31	0.07
298	Ron Baker, SG	        NY	52	16.5	-2.68	-0.56	-3.24	-0.06
359	Mindaugas Kuzminskas, F	NY	68	14.9	-0.80	-1.20	-2.00	0.72
379	Chasson Randle, PG	NY/PHI	26	11.5	-0.74	-1.36	-2.10	0.20
394	Brandon Jennings, PG	NY/WSH	81	22.2	0.25	-1.50	-1.25	2.15
395	Courtney Lee, SG	NY	77	31.9	0.58	-1.51	-0.93	3.40
418	Lance Thomas, SF	NY	46	21.0	-2.87	-1.73	-4.60	-0.91
421	Carmelo Anthony, SF	NY	74	34.3	1.87	-1.75	0.12	5.26
442	Derrick Rose, PG	NY	64	32.5	0.11	-2.36	-2.25	1.17
468	Doug McDermott, SF	CHI/OKC	66	22.8	-0.61	-3.92	-4.53	-1.33

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

What's so wrong in playing players that will give MAX effort and if you aren't good enough you wind up being bad enough to draft top 3?
I know you only appreciate Melo on the team, but I like that we have some young talent in KP, Willy and Frank.

If we're looking for more of a competitive lineup then we can go with Willy/KP/Thomas/Lee/Nti. Or use capspace this summer to sign a free agent wing who can start for us at 3.

It's not the end of of the world if Melo moves on and the the team re-builds.

In hindsight, Phil should have hired a defense first coach and let Rambis run the offense if he was going to go all in n the triangle.

CrushAlot wrote:In hindsight, Phil should have hired a defense first coach and let Rambis run the offense if he was going to go all in n the triangle.

Rambis does not know game management or how to call/set up time out (out of bounds) plays like Hornachek.
I think Horny is a really good coach on offense. He has so many good sets especially when there are timeouts.

He's also pretty open minded in that he'll do what Phil wants (which is system ball) but also add other elements to it like pushing the ball in transition and better out of bounds plays. He'll mix it up more than Rambis ever could.

On the creativity scale, Rambis is 2/10. Horny is a 7/10.
Then factor Horny knows how to teach guys how to shoot, I can't see it even close.

We needed a better defensive coach. That's for sure. I don't know what the plan is, but it seems for now the plan is to get better defensive talent. I'm just not sold on Horny as a defensive mind. He needs a good assistant for D. But having players with a high motor on D will help.

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Hey, maybe we can petition the league that the 24 second clock should be abolished, and we can just play D and stall, since that crew you're picking should score about 20 points a game!

Might as well focus on D, as in Draft Night, 2018!

Melo has been part of 3 lottery teams.
Porzingis has been part of 2.

The biggest weakness on last year's team was defense.

I don't see where this is going by keeping Melo and trying to add more players like Rose. If we sub out Rose in FA for a different guard FA. It may look like our starting 5 is better which on offense it will be with Melo, KP and whomever we replace Rose with in free agency at PG. What's the end game though? ANOTHER 35 win season at best? Draft 10?

I rather see a full rebuild and to improve defensively, give Ntilikina and the younger players good roles on the team. If we're bottom 5 in the league, so what? We will draft major talent.

But don't be shocked if the team plays good defense around Porzingis and Willy next year, that they end up being just as competitive as they've been the last two years (30 wins).

Dude, what games were you watching? The "team" included Kuz, who didn't know where he was or who his man was half the time, Baker, who get's A's for effort but wasn't reminding anyone of the Glove, and Lee, who didn't get to finish in dead last on the team on D for the season only because of Rose. Yes, and Melo is dead weight. But there is the other end of the court...

Melo has also been part of 3 playoff teams.

So your argument is, play yoots, suck septic really well and then bench KP or anyone else approaching double digit points at the end of the season so we score no points at all, and get the face paint ready for next June. Lather, rinse and repeat. Yeah! Knicks basketball! In Hinkie we trust!

What's so wrong in playing players that will give MAX effort and if you aren't good enough you wind up being bad enough to draft top 3?
I know you only appreciate Melo on the team, but I like that we have some young talent in KP, Willy and Frank.

If we're looking for more of a competitive lineup then we can go with Willy/KP/Thomas/Lee/Nti. Or use capspace this summer to sign a free agent wing who can start for us at 3.

It's not the end of of the world if Melo moves on and the the team re-builds.

Talent trumps character if you are trying to win in sports. Winning is the goal. If you are developing young guys and tanking in the process don't waste the time of vets unless they are down with the process. A lt is made of the contract Phil ave Melo. When Melo signed do you think he was told the goal is winning, or development and draft position.

We definitely tried to win.
Noah, Lee, Rose, Jennings, O'Quinn. That's all guys that can help Melo win now. Porzingis was a longterm investment but KP played like a starter right away and this past year like a solid 2nd option.

So I do think Melo had a window, if he were in his prime. People don't see it but Melo has declined as well. He's not the same Melo we got in 2010. I've seen him slow down physicaly, I've seen him come into games unable to make a shot or move properly for the entire half. Those knees have never looked the same to me since 2014,

If LBJ or Westbrook or peak/prime Melo had last year's team, I think they make the playoffs. That's not to say Phil did enough, he hasn't. He has surrounded Melo with some trash and some bad teams. The team we had last year though should have been in the .500 ball park (atleast). There was just something not right ... and it wasn't talent.

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:In hindsight, Phil should have hired a defense first coach and let Rambis run the offense if he was going to go all in n the triangle.

Rambis does not know game management or how to call/set up time out (out of bounds) plays like Hornachek.
I think Horny is a really good coach on offense. He has so many good sets especially when there are timeouts.

He's also pretty open minded in that he'll do what Phil wants (which is system ball) but also add other elements to it like pushing the ball in transition and better out of bounds plays. He'll mix it up more than Rambis ever could.

On the creativity scale, Rambis is 2/10. Horny is a 7/10.
Then factor Horny knows how to teach guys how to shoot, I can't see it even close.

We needed a better defensive coach. That's for sure. I don't know what the plan is, but it seems for now the plan is to get better defensive talent. I'm just not sold on Horny as a defensive mind. He needs a good assistant for D. But having players with a high motor on D will help.

Hornacek was a great hire if e was allowed to run the offense. Phil pulled back on that. Phil wanted Rambis as his head coach. He hired Jeff but took away his autonomy. Rambis is the guru for what Phil wants on offense. That doesn't mean Rambis is a good coach. GMs should hire the coach that coaches the way they want and the stick to roster building. I hate Rambis as a head coach but he is simpatico with Phil.

CrushAlot wrote:In hindsight, Phil should have hired a defense first coach and let Rambis run the offense if he was going to go all in n the triangle.

Actually Phil hasn't gone all in on the Triangle with the exception of the short stint with Rambis. other than that it's been SOME Triangle but not 100%. Even with Jeff Phil's intention is to have a Modernized Hybrid Triangle so that the Team is able to adjust to the way the game is played and called now. Jeff and Phil agreed on a Hybrid and they never abandoned that approach even through to the final game of the season.

The Percentage of Triangle will be higher than at the start of this last season but it's never going to be 100% Triangle. This is why Jeff was brought in. Otherwise there would be no need for him. So the base offense is still Triangle but they want to get more Early Offense using Spread PnR and Drag Screens before they flow into Side Triangle Actions. The longer Jeff is immersed in the Triangle the more he'll be able to tweak it and do different things. That's what Phil wants Jeff to do.

As for the Defense, the most important thing is continuing to bring in ACTIVE defenders as Phil is doing.

nyknickzingis wrote:We definitely tried to win.
Noah, Lee, Rose, Jennings, O'Quinn. That's all guys that can help Melo win now. Porzingis was a longterm investment but KP played like a starter right away and this past year like a solid 2nd option.

So I do think Melo had a window, if he were in his prime. People don't see it but Melo has declined as well. He's not the same Melo we got in 2010. I've seen him slow down physicaly, I've seen him come into games unable to make a shot or move properly for the entire half. Those knees have never looked the same to me since 2014,

If LBJ or Westbrook or peak/prime Melo had last year's team, I think they make the playoffs. That's not to say Phil did enough, he hasn't. He has surrounded Melo with some trash and some bad teams. The team we had last year though should have been in the .500 ball park (atleast). There was just something not right ... and it wasn't talent.

I disagree. Lee is good on a good team as the fourth or fifth option. Noah was hurt and continued to be hurt. When he wasnt he struggled. The Knicks had 6 rookies on a 15 man roster. Five were udfa and one was a second round pick. The Knicks had 8 undrafted players on their roster. Ten out of fifteen guys were not first round picks after Jennings was waived. When you consider Noah's health, the Knicks were running with only four guys taken in the first round on a fifteen man roster. Is there another team that barren of talent from the past season?

The Finals had teams scoring 130+. Adam Silver is a proponent of hands off shoot em up ball.
Good defense always makes a difference but you win by converting the turnovers and rebounding the ball.
So, Baker is slow and will be slow. Billy who I like, is a defensive project. KP and Billy are slow together and when teams play small ball we need to respond.

'Kina is gonna sit a lot - he's 18 and has much to learn. His contribution will be defensive and I don't see him scoring 5 a game year 1. OQuinn and Lee are stil trade fodder and perhaps Melo Lebron Wade Cp3 will find a way to be happy in LA somehow. Don't sign Rose. He's a defensive hazard and what's the difference if we win 25 or 32? We're rebuilding.