Knicks · I Guess Cuban Really Wanted Smith (page 2)

Vincent Collet resigned from Mavs coaching today. Cuban probably bought him out. Some extra money spent to get Smith. Love him or hate Cuban but I love that guy. always trying to make the Mavs better no matter the cost

BigRedDog wrote:Vincent Collet resigned from Mavs coaching today. Cuban probably bought him out. Some extra money spent to get Smith. Love him or hate Cuban but I love that guy. always trying to make the Mavs better no matter the cost

Is that Frank's coach?

Looks to me Cuban out smarted himself.

Classic Knick fans... "if another team is excited about a player taken after us it must mean we phucked up"

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

yellowboy90 wrote:If the Mavs really liked ntilikina would they trade Smith Jr for Frank right now?

They may have rated Smith over Frank and didn't think he would be available at 9. Even if they did the Mavs drafting over the years has been suspect. But its a perfect fit and situation for both parties.

I am happy with Frank. Smith had too much Stevie Franchise in him. Not what we need to pair up with KP.

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

All I can do is trust our scouts. They had the option to take Monk or DSJ and took Nitty. They believe they saw something special in Nitty. These guys don't like to be wrong. Their rep and job depends on getting it right. I don't think our scouts are vouching for a player unless they're convinced of his ability. No one is perfect at projecting but the Knicks scouts have been very thorough and done a good job.

fishmike wrote:Classic Knick fans... "if another team is excited about a player taken after us it must mean we phucked up"

Not really. I do like Frank and believe in the Knicks scouting but find it interesting the mind game that Cuban/Mavs played in the situation. Mind games not only with us but with the top 8 picks. Opposite of what we did with Curry when we announced prior to the draft that Curry was our man. How f'in stupid was that?

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

fishmike wrote:Classic Knick fans... "if another team is excited about a player taken after us it must mean we phucked up"

This only applies to those who complain after the fact....Some of us supported Smith at 8 in numerous threads before the draft.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:Classic Knick fans... "if another team is excited about a player taken after us it must mean we phucked up"

This only applies to those who complain after the fact....Some of us supported Smith at 8 in numerous threads before the draft.

right. So now it becomes I told you so. Equally special.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

So if you get to compare Smith to Westbrook I get to compare Frank to Gary Payton, and I will take the guy who can change the game on both ends.

Also your assumption that Frank would be available later and also assume the KNicks could have traded down is just that. You made up a scenario based on your opinion than used it to criticize the Knicks execution. Not really much of a backing there.

Dennis Smith is about Dennis Smith. Ntilikina is about the team and winning. So there is that also right? I would have had no problem with Smith but there were no shortage of reasons to pass on him.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

Westbrook isn't just Westbrook because he is an athletic freak though. Westbrook plays at 120% for 40 mins a game. He is unique in that aspect. Smith is said to be a moody player who only plays when he wants to. Can be turned off and stop caring. Those are things that must be considered coming to NY which these traits never had a happy ending.

Smith's upside is that on offense and being a play maker. Maybe he becomes a good defender to. But usually when people give their all on offense they tend to conserve energy on defense. Frank's upside is being first team all defense at the G position. To go with a good 3 point shot and PG skills.

As we speak Mike Conley popped in my head. Frank a 6'5 Mike Conley.

At the end of the day we took the less shiny player with better size, the ability to defend exceptionally well and to have some scoring pop a few years into his career over a known me first explosive player with a questionable character and major injury.

My heart wanted DSJ but somewhere in the back of my mind I have a feeling there is a loser trait somewhere in him. After Zbo, Marbury, Francis and Melo, I'm sick and tired of these fake stars.

I'm happy to have Frank. I think he has the potential to do more and have a bigger impact on both ends at this level.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

So if you get to compare Smith to Westbrook I get to compare Frank to Gary Payton, and I will take the guy who can change the game on both ends.

Also your assumption that Frank would be available later and also assume the KNicks could have traded down is just that. You made up a scenario based on your opinion than used it to criticize the Knicks execution. Not really much of a backing there.

Dennis Smith is about Dennis Smith. Ntilikina is about the team and winning. So there is that also right? I would have had no problem with Smith but there were no shortage of reasons to pass on him.

I'm not comparing their games or saying Smith has the potential to be on Westbrooks level. I'm comparing their injuries as pg's and The fact that Westbrook suffered the same injury and thus far and has not had any setbacks...I think you know what I meant...

These accusations about Smith are pure speculation...It was alot of turmoil in NC State. Obviously, these character issues didn't scare off the Mavs a team that already won a 'chip. Wouldn't you think Carlisle who just dealt with Rondo, would be hesitant to take Smith? Instead they were thrilled to get him.

There wasn't another guard on the board on the board that had the same potential as Smith that was drafted after him IMO. A case can be made that there were guards with similar size, skills and potential to Frank that were picked after him...

In the end, I'm a Knick fan so I'm hoping that Frank turns into to a good player for us....

Though once concern I have about Frank which we will see when he plays these summer league games. Is his rebounding. He doesn't seem to get after the boards given his size. When he should be snatching rebounds and pushing the ball.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

So if you get to compare Smith to Westbrook I get to compare Frank to Gary Payton, and I will take the guy who can change the game on both ends.

Also your assumption that Frank would be available later and also assume the KNicks could have traded down is just that. You made up a scenario based on your opinion than used it to criticize the Knicks execution. Not really much of a backing there.

Dennis Smith is about Dennis Smith. Ntilikina is about the team and winning. So there is that also right? I would have had no problem with Smith but there were no shortage of reasons to pass on him.

I'm not comparing their games or saying Smith has the potential to be on Westbrooks level. I'm comparing their injuries as pg's and The fact that Westbrook suffered the same injury and thus far and has not had any setbacks...I think you know what I meant...

These accusations about Smith are pure speculation...It was alot of turmoil in NC State. Obviously, these character issues didn't scare off the Mavs a team that already won a 'chip. Wouldn't you think Carlisle who just dealt with Rondo, would be hesitant to take Smith? Instead they were thrilled to get him.

There wasn't another guard on the board on the board that had the same potential as Smith that was drafted after him IMO. A case can be made that there were guards with similar size, skills and potential to Frank that were picked after him...

In the end, I'm a Knick fan so I'm hoping that Frank turns into to a good player for us....

The only skill DS has shown in the last 2 years is the ability to score. Make no mistake, he's shown that REALLY well. He has not shown much upside as a defender or rebounder. He's not much of a facilitator either. He draws so much attention (deserved) scoring that any pass is a good one. He could def be a drive and dish assist guy and get 8 dimes a game much like Marbury did. I see that as his upside. Obviously Marbury had personality issues which he navigated poorly.

Both Frank and Monk are better shooters. Frank is the only one of the 3 with all team defense potential, although I certainly admit Frank's future as a PG is no sure thing.

Only time will tell. Every year good guards are passed up. Scouting in the NBA isnt easy, but especially as we have a pair of guys in the frontcourt, both who can score, I love the idea of a wing who's slated to be an elite defender.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The problem I have with Frank over Smith is that Frank is not a pg or a sg right now and he might never grow into a pg. The other problem is he comes into a system that more than likely will be put out to pasture in a year or two. He isn't coming into a stable culture and personally I don't want Ram is around Frank. Finally, I know prognosticators are not always right and they could be very wrong about Frank but for the most part everyone sees his upside as an average to slightly above average player. On ther other side when they project Smith Jr most view his down side as an average player and his upside as being a future stud. The guy has a real chance to be the best player in this draft.

This is the exact reason why I wanted Smith over Frank especially at 8!

No.. his downside is a pouty me first player with a bad knee. But yea... carry on

True....but his upside trumps Franks, IMO, and at 8 you take the best player available. It's a crap shoot....Westbrook had a similar injury to Smith and just put up career numbers....I said it before, my major probelm with Frank is taking him at 8. If he was the Knicks guy, I would have liked to have seen them trade back and get an additional asset.

So if you get to compare Smith to Westbrook I get to compare Frank to Gary Payton, and I will take the guy who can change the game on both ends.

Also your assumption that Frank would be available later and also assume the KNicks could have traded down is just that. You made up a scenario based on your opinion than used it to criticize the Knicks execution. Not really much of a backing there.

Dennis Smith is about Dennis Smith. Ntilikina is about the team and winning. So there is that also right? I would have had no problem with Smith but there were no shortage of reasons to pass on him.

I'm not comparing their games or saying Smith has the potential to be on Westbrooks level. I'm comparing their injuries as pg's and The fact that Westbrook suffered the same injury and thus far and has not had any setbacks...I think you know what I meant...

These accusations about Smith are pure speculation...It was alot of turmoil in NC State. Obviously, these character issues didn't scare off the Mavs a team that already won a 'chip. Wouldn't you think Carlisle who just dealt with Rondo, would be hesitant to take Smith? Instead they were thrilled to get him.

There wasn't another guard on the board on the board that had the same potential as Smith that was drafted after him IMO. A case can be made that there were guards with similar size, skills and potential to Frank that were picked after him...

In the end, I'm a Knick fan so I'm hoping that Frank turns into to a good player for us....

The only skill DS has shown in the last 2 years is the ability to score. Make no mistake, he's shown that REALLY well. He has not shown much upside as a defender or rebounder. He's not much of a facilitator either. He draws so much attention (deserved) scoring that any pass is a good one. He could def be a drive and dish assist guy and get 8 dimes a game much like Marbury did. I see that as his upside. Obviously Marbury had personality issues which he navigated poorly.

Both Frank and Monk are better shooters. Frank is the only one of the 3 with all team defense potential, although I certainly admit Frank's future as a PG is no sure thing.

Only time will tell. Every year good guards are passed up. Scouting in the NBA isnt easy, but especially as we have a pair of guys in the frontcourt, both who can score, I love the idea of a wing who's slated to be an elite defender.

Fair enough...Smiths shortcomings are why he was picked after Fox....before his injury, some publications had Smith ranked as the best guard prospect.

With that said, Smiths drive and kick ability in a space and pace modern offense is the way most of the elite teams are going. I do believe Frank has good potential. If he can learn to play pg, his size becomes more of a factor and his stock rises a bit...

Frank has better upside as a shooter, passer, and defender. Smith is more athletic and a better scorer. If you are building a team around KP, Frank's skillset seems like a better fit to me.