We need to rebuild the talent in the court... the same should be said for our front office. Hiring a figure head is only a target for the media. The Knicks have plenty of people in MSG thay can be the team president. You establish your own culture not hire someone to establish their culture. It's not guaranteed a Spur guy, okc guy, Clevland guy or whoever is going to right the ship. Only exec that has been able to bounce around and be successful is Jerry West. Anybody remember Scott Layden?... we had Walsh, Grunwald... the best guy we had was Grunfeld and we fired him before his team could gel in 1999.
Anyway it's not science. You establish a culture but holding tight to a belief and having a standard. I believe the Knicks need to close their doors and build from their already rich history. Let Mills be the gm... Let Hornacek coach. Allan Houston has been grooming... their are other people... Jerry West is a consultant. They tried to make Phil that guy via the presidency... but people hate him... maybe they look to other greats that only nyc hold dear. Once a knick always a knick. That's our culture.
you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve Mills
I dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri started from somewhere... the Knicks have 15 years of getting it wrong. The best teacher in life is failure. All this time, we should know what not to do by now.... its time to close those doors and control their own destiny
EnySpree wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri started from somewhere... the Knicks have 15 years of getting it wrong. The best teacher in life is failure. All this time, we should know what not to do by now.... its time to close those doors and control their own destiny
I think Dolan is learning. He gave Phil autonomy. He has hired a consultant to advise in the search for the next pres. I am not sure about Mills. He has not done well in the past. It sounds like the process is going to be thorough and will take some time. Mills will have a shot as interim to impress. I do think the Knicks might be better served to get go outside the organization. But I thought Grunwald was a very good hire. I don't know if the Knicks have a guy like that on staff.
EnySpree wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri started from somewhere... the Knicks have 15 years of getting it wrong. The best teacher in life is failure. All this time, we should know what not to do by now.... its time to close those doors and control their own destiny
He did... first as a scout and later under Colangelo. Thats the thing... he was groomed in a successful and winning environment. I disagree man. It sounds like you think the Knicks should figure it out. I think they need to be shown. I like the idea of continuity. I dont think Mills or Houston are bad guys. In fact I think they are high character guys but they need better leadership. Knicks need help here. Strong help. I dont see Griffin as that. Ujiri would be. Presti would be. Knicks need to not be sexy. They need a blue collar guy. This is why other teams are always poaching Spurs staff etc
I would like Allan Houston to do the job. He has to learn sometime.
Caseloads wrote:I would like Allan Houston to do the job. He has to learn sometime.
Have him learn like Mitch Kupchak under Jerry West. Bring in an experienced, solid president and have him work directly under him.
fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
Ibaka is a hell of a good player. Regardless every GM has mistakes on their resume. EVERY GM. Ujiri has a great reputation for putting his people in a position to succeed. Look at the players that have come and gone there. There is continuity and plenty of improvement from within. It not always about drafting the best pick or making the best trade. Sometimes its getting guys like Derozan and Lowry and Jonas etc and having an environment where year after year they grow and improve.
Does anyone remember the name of the Knicks guy -- to my knowledge still in house -- who had connections to Denver and is supposedly well regardard. Mark T-something-sounding-Armenian, if I recall?
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
I am really curious to see what Ujiri does if he stays in Toronto. The Ringer article I just posted talks about Lowry and Ibaka having the same agent, Andy Miller. The article speculated that Miller would demand both guys get big deals or he would have both of them leave. Apparently Miller has done this to teams in the past.
CrushAlot wrote:Chandler wrote:
Does anyone remember the name of the Knicks guy -- to my knowledge still in house -- who had connections to Denver and is supposedly well regardard. Mark T-something-sounding-Armenian, if I recall?
Warkenstein?
thanks that's the guy, but it's Warkentien. Hahah -- Armenian?? I need more coffee
Isn't he super well regarded? Surprised he's not getting any buzz
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
i think there is a difference with making a mistake that cost the franchise years down the road or making a mistake and not destroying the team. ujiri made mistakes in Toronto and Denver but it wasn't monumental like the layden, Thomas or even Jackson mistakes that could cost us for years such as giving up picks, signing aging players to multi-year contracts and continuing the coaching carousel that set the franchise back each time.
I would really like to see if they can get JVG and Mark Jackson or even both. Have Mark be the GM and JVG as the Coach. Then bring back Marv.
jazz74 wrote:Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
i think there is a difference with making a mistake that cost the franchise years down the road or making a mistake and not destroying the team. ujiri made mistakes in Toronto and Denver but it wasn't monumental like the layden, Thomas or even Jackson mistakes that could cost us for years such as giving up picks, signing aging players to multi-year contracts and continuing the coaching carousel that set the franchise back each time.
That is a mistake a mistake is a mistake. Just like Doc Rivers who out family ahead of the franchise.
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
not here to defend ujiri or convince you otherwise but just want to get the facts right. biyombo was signed as a FA on a 1 and 1 for $3 mil. after his first year with us, we could not offer more than the MLE. he wanted to stay in toronto but orlando offered him an obscene # and he left. ujiri couldn't keep biyombo without removing better players and making the team worse - effectively gutting the team for what is really a backup center.
so he didn't fall for the big name.
as for ibaka - we needed a starting PF and almost had him on draft night until orlando came in with a better offer. we still managed to get him giving up ross + late 1st.
now for my op-ed: as for taking away the toughness - this season, the team would've made the ecf's if not in the cavs bracket and the cavs series probably goes 6, just like last year if lowry didn't miss games 3 and 4. losing biyombo did not hurt the team in any way.
djsunyc wrote:Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:you cant establish culture without leadership. Right now that leadership is 1) Dolan and 2) Steve MillsI dont think those are strong starting points for leadership. They need an example with experience. Ujiri is certainly that type
Ujiri isn't that good he has major faults. He spent money on Serge Ibaka and all he had to do was keep Biyambo for less. He took Toronto's toughness away that Biyambo gave. He fell for the big name. I don't think to much of Ujiri. NY media would run him out of town in 2 years.
Whatever you get comes with a 2-3 year expiration date. No matter who it is.
not here to defend ujiri or convince you otherwise but just want to get the facts right. biyombo was signed as a FA on a 1 and 1 for $3 mil. after his first year with us, we could not offer more than the MLE. he wanted to stay in toronto but orlando offered him an obscene # and he left. ujiri couldn't keep biyombo without removing better players and making the team worse - effectively gutting the team for what is really a backup center.
so he didn't fall for the big name.
as for ibaka - we needed a starting PF and almost had him on draft night until orlando came in with a better offer. we still managed to get him giving up ross + late 1st.
now for my op-ed: as for taking away the toughness - this season, the team would've made the ecf's if not in the cavs bracket and the cavs series probably goes 6, just like last year if lowry didn't miss games 3 and 4. losing biyombo did not hurt the team in any way.
Now Lowry has his foot out the door. All these moves and you are no closer to the destination. Besides getting Ujiri comes with giving compensation and Knicks are in no position to do stupid shyt like that. He comes for free ok compensation he can hit the bricks.
Just ride it out with Mills and Gaines as pres and gm until Presti's contract with OKC expires. Hell I would even consider hiring Sam Hinkie to do what he does best, tank the team and trade for assets. Just let Kevin Wilson and Gaines make the draft choices.
We hired Phil because he could talk back to Dolan.
Anyone internal is going to be Dolan's bitch boy.
If it's someone internal it's likely going to be Isiah.
Sinix wrote:We hired Phil because he could talk back to Dolan.Anyone internal is going to be Dolan's bitch boy.
If it's someone internal it's likely going to be Isiah.
I dont want Isiah making trades or signings, but I don't mind him as part of our scouting dream team with Wilson and Gaines. You have to atleast give the man that, he coukd draft his ass off. Frye, Lee, Ariza, and Wilson are still in the league 10 years later.
